Can't get the hang of the baseball bat grip

[XR6Hurricane]

Hey everyone, great site and am enjoying the discussions I've read so far. Looking for some input...I've been slalom skiing (just free skiing, recreational) for about 15 years and have never used or been comfortable with the baseball bat grip. I just hold the handle with both palms down. The guy who taught me has skied (very well I might add, recreationally) for over 50 years and skis the same way. I've tried the baseball bat grip a few times and am getting slightly used to it, but seem to have more trouble with balance and have wound up with more slack from not being able to follow through as hard with the cut. I know the BB grip is supposed to give you more strength but with me it seems the opposite because it is so uncomfortable. I'm trying to clean up a couple of things with my body alignment and have been told that the baseball bat grip is another important thing I should be doing at the same time. At this point I am fighting years of instinct/bad habits but am just looking for a little direction. I've never been on a course.

 

My questions are:

1) Am I the only one who can't get the hang of the baseball bat grip? Is it really that critical at this level?

2) Any pointers to help make the transition to the new grip and make it work for me?

 

Just some other misc. info: I'm 5'9", 125 lbs soaking wet, 36 years old. Never been on a course in my life. Skiing on a 65" Connelly Concept at 30-31 mph. I know it's on the slow side for that ski but it's where I'm most comfortable. The ski does better at 32 mph but I usually don't.

 

Thanks for any input.

[jipster43]

I'm the worst skier on this site, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I recommend getting used to the baseball grip. I'm sure your pal is an awesome open water skier, but if you ever find yourself in a course, you'll be stoked you switched grips. The reasons for this are too numerous for my sleepy brain to enumerate at the moment, but suffice it to say that I have never seen a top pro (or any tournament skier) sporting a double palm down/up grip.

 

You'll get used to your new grip soon enough and dollars to donuts you'll find those other alignment issues you're having will improve correspondingly. Enjoy the ride!

[kfennell]

Are you holding the handle the right way? If you are left foot forward your left palm should be down and vice versa.

[6balls]

XR6hurricane welcome to BOS. I skied for years recreationally like you with both palms down...I still get out of the water that way and then switch after I stand up. At first it will feel awkward, but you will get it the more you do it, and then palms down will start to feel odd.

Attach a handle somewhere in your house. Anytime you walk by pick it up with proper grip and simulate a lean. Maybe even release and re-grab a number of times.

[footloose42]

When I started with the baseball grip, I held the handle vertical. It felt closer to the old style grip and more natural. As I advanced in skill, my hands instinctively started turning to hold it horizontal, but I never made the change on purpose. Maybe that will help keep your mind off the foreignness of the grip until you get used to it.

 

Especially on starts, I remember feeling very awkward having that right palm up and trying to stay balanced. Compared to palm down, it seems to open your shoulder up a bit while the other one stays closed, which could lead to unbalance. But with the handle vertical and both palms inward, it helped keep me aligned both in and on top of the water.

[SkiJay]

The baseball grip doesn't so much "give you more strength" overall as it helps you get into a strong pulling position on your "off-side" lean. Because one foot is ahead of the other, everything in slalom is a bit of a compromise, and the baseball grip is no exception. It should actually feel worse than your two-palms-down grip on your on-side, but feel quite good on your off-side lean, and anything you can do to improve your off-side will generally be a net benefit when you find a perfectly symmetrical slalom course coming at you a little faster than is comfortable. Make sure you have the correct palm up as described by @kfennel and stick with it. You will be glad you did, even in open water.

[Waternut]

I naturally gripped the handle with a baseball grip but realized after years of skiing that my hands were in the wrong position on the handle. I had to see pictures of how to hold the handle because the whole palm up/palm down thing didn't make sense to me since the only time I thought about it was when I was skiing straight and the handle was vertical. The way I think about it is if your a right foot forward guy, your right hands pinky finger will be next to the handles rope or at the end of the handle instead of the center.

 

Even switching that was super wierd to grab but after a week or two the other way felt wierd. Just for the record, it was only wierd when I grabbed the handle or when I was getting up. Once I was up and started skiing, I didn't even notice or think about it.

[DooSPX]

I now find that holding the handle palm down extremely weird. You will get used to it.

[XR6Hurricane]

Thanks for the replies guys. I am LFF and am holding it the correct way with the left palm down. Funny 6 balls should mention attaching the handle in the house...I have one on my porch that I've been practicing with! Will be interesting to see how it improves the off side, because I tend to be a tail turner on the off side. Going out Saturday morning and will practice some more.

[Laz]

Simple to remember: LFF = thumbs to the right. RFF =thumbs to the left.

[mwetskier]

jeff rogers must of missed that tip

[XR6Hurricane]

It was about 50 degrees Friday night so the river was abandoned yesterday morning.

 

Used the baseball bat grip the entire time and I'm getting much more comfortable with it after practicing with the handle on my porch and getting some perfect water to practice on. It does seem to improve my off-side turn (LFF). Did my best to focus on my body alignment and leverage too. I can see what is meant by some of the other things falling into place if you can master the baseball bat grip.

 

Would appreciate any comments on the video. It's done with the GoPro Hero2 so it's not zoomed in, but you can see pretty well what's going on. This is 15 off at 30 mph on my 65" Concept. It was Run #1 of the day so I'm fully rested. Later in the day I messed around a little with disconnecting one hand in the turns, which I've never done before.

 

Vid here:

http://youtu.be/feWCcDwQnJA

 

 

 

 

 

 

[XR6Hurricane]

Some still shots too if anyone wants to analyze them.

[usaski1]

I've been skiing for 22 years. I don't wear gloves because I don't like them, I need to "feel" the handle. I also ski two palms down... tried the baseball grip.. didn't like it... never tried it again. I know your learning, but don't take too much into the '"it works for everyone else, so it must work for me" mentality. In the end, the only thing that matters is that it works for you. At the same time, other things that don't feel right to me work well when I practice them. I have a bad habit of looking at the ball, not the back of the boat. When I do look in the back of the boat, and try to square up my shoulders with the boat across the wake I do better, but it feels strange, so I don't do it as much as I should.

[MarkTimm]

@XR6Hurricane thats a cool site, something about miles of perfect water that still gets me excited. Its always great to work on new things to improve your skiing but never forget the number one rule, Have Fun.

[6balls]

@XR6Hurricane, what boat are you running. Seems a quick hole shot, very little spray, V6 outboard, no? I grew up skiing/footing outboards.

I wouldn't say the following to skiers at higher levels, and at some point you won't want to do it, but I want to fix the fact that you ride flat, catch up on the boat which makes slack and then delays your turn. With that you are making disconnected turn, pull, wait, turn, pull, wait as individual events rather than connected.

Here's something to try. As you finish your pull through the wash...for example from left to right, look back over your right shoulder at the wake and lead your hands into the back of the boat. It should produce a complete edge change feeding into a nice turn.

At some point after you get the transition, you will throw this piece of advice out the window as it is not good slalom course theory...this is just to get you to make a compete edge change to inside and connect your preturn, turn, pull into a smooth, slackless movement. I've had excellent success getting others through this point with this idea at a ski camp where I volunteer. Later on when edge change becomes second nature and comfortable we start moving toward buoy style coaching, this is just to get you past this hump. The first time you start this you may find yourself a bit narrower...this is ok to get some rhythm and once you have it start pushing width.

[XR6Hurricane]

Thanks 6balls, I will try that. I have skied with a more steady flow before, but not as steady as I should be. Getting used to the new grip made me hesitant too. I'll give the look over the shoulder a try.

 

Boat is a 18 1/2' Rapid Craft Hurricane with a stock 150 Merc. It's good for about 70 on the GPS with my other props but I ski with a 23" Trophy Plus (it will still run 64 on the rev limiter with that prop). It would pull me OK with my 26", but the 23" makes it a lot easier to hold a steady speed. It has a really good wake too. Foamier than some boats but low and soft. I remember how I learned behind a 15' Allison with a 65 hp Merc...the first time I got behind an inboard the wake looked like a jump ramp.

[6balls]

@xr6hurricane, cool boat. Grew up skiing a 13.5 ft switzer w/140hp evinrude, then a 17.5 ft switzer with 175 hp, then two ski centurion barefoot outboards with 225's. Skied the last one into 35 off on the course at 36 mph back in the days of hand timing. At your longer line and slower speed, your wake is probably quite a bit better than an inboard. When you get to shorter line/faster speeds, no substitute for inboard wake/tracking.

[XR6Hurricane]

6balls or anyone else - a couple of weeks into it and the baseball bat grip now feels normal! Here's a clip from yesterday. Getting more into making the edge change instead of pausing at the end of the cut - well, at least on some of them ;). Worked on that even more on my 3rd and 4th runs of the day which unfortunately I didn't film. Had another run after this that I didn't film that felt even better. I still don't feel or look like I'm at a steep enough angle backward when I come across the wake. Seems like if you don't get into that position as you complete the turn, then you aren't going to get there because you can't fight the boat enough to pull back into it once you start to accelerate? But I'm continuing to work on it every time out. Still at 15' off but kicked it up 100 rpm to get to about 31 mph. I never do throw all that much spray...maybe because I'm only 125 lbs, or because I'm just not that good :).

 

http://youtu.be/vlvV2nQTYPA

 

 

[SkiJay]

@XR6Hurricane What you said about leaning away from the boat is a good goal at this point. You should be leaned away from the boat while cutting at least as much as you are leaned over in the turn. And as you've noticed, this is only possible if you stay leaned over from the turn. Generating speed is the goal and you'll get the most speed if you are in a nice tall stacked position throughout all this leaning.

 

Don't give your spray another thought. Big spray comes with more speed. Focus on building more speed. Really big spray is often a sign of inefficient technique, so not necessarily a good thing.

[6balls]

@xr6hurricane, your onside transition looks better. Did the look back over the shoulder help? If so do it sooner particularly going into your offside turn. Again, this will be discarded in the future once you are more comfortable rolling to inside edge on your offside but you have to get comfortable with that move. Once you do, it's time to work on the next issue.

[XR6Hurricane]

6balls - I did experiment with the look over the shoulder and am going to do more of it this morning. You're right, the offside is what really needs the work. I've always been very uncomfortable with the offside turn and typically it has been more of a tail turn as opposed to keeping the weight further up on the ski. This is the first year in a LONG time that I've had a chance to practice on some really good water and on a regular basis. So I'm making progress, albeit slowly. I really appreciate the input from everyone. I love the sport dearly but I have very little natural ability and truthfully I'm lucky to be this far. I never established really good form when I was younger and I find that now at only 36, I'm less willing to risk a bad pileup than I was at 20. That alone is probably holding me back but I do feel like I'm gaining. Well, gotta get some gas in the boat and meet my driver and spotter at the ramp.

[6balls]

Hang in there, that reluctance to commit on the off-side is pretty common at your level. Keep working/playing and you will get there.