engine oil

[brody]

I was hoping for a little help from you Jody or any other engine tech types. I bought a 01 response lx this year with the 325 monsoon. the specs say to run penzoil 10w40 marine. I cant find this oil anywhere up here. I am in Canada. Napa carries 10w40 non marine oil. Is this the same thing as marine oil. If not can you recommend an alternate engine oil to use. tx for any help.

[Jody_Seal]

Not a Penzoil Guy myself but you can utilize 10W-40 of about any brand. I like to utilize Mobil-1 or Syntec/Valvoline in most everything I own. Currently in the 12 200 6 liter I am running Royal purple 15W-40. Just stay with the manufacturer recommended weight motor oil and change every 50 hours or once a year and you will do fine.

[Deke]

The Response LX oil spec is for 15w40. Amsoil makes a marine grade 15w40.

[DW]

I have successfully run 5W-30 Mobil 1 in a small block Chevy in a tourney ski boat. This one has been modded a bit and pumps out over 400 hp. You might consider your ambient conditions as you make your viscosity choice, sounds like you will run in cooler weather, not only air, but the intake water that has to be heated to engine temps.

[boarditup]

Penzoil Platinum is marine grade oil and I have been using it for years with good results. NAPA Gold filters are also marine grade (higher bursting strength and stouter gaskets) without the extra cost.

[eleeski]

Raylube (recycled and filtered oil) or Arco graphite (pre blackened) are my favorite oils.

 

Your chances of an oil related failure are trivial compared to corrosion, rodent, vandal or age deterioration (like impellers). Change the oil when the filter corrodes and threatens to leak.

 

Eric

[boarditup]

Eric - you are correct - to a point. Water sitting in the bottom of the oil pan does corrode and will typically lead to the oil pan thread failure and leaks. Failure to provide clean, effective lubrication leads to "tired motor." You just loose hp and torque over time, when you did not have to.

 

Impellers and spark plugs are annual maintenance items. Belts, fuel pumps, throttle bodies, exhaust gaskets and manifolds, alternators, starters, etc. are longer term maintenance items as they do wear out over time.

 

Be proactive on maintenance and you will spend less cash and time on boat repairs over time.

 

Tip of the day: Spray your motor with PB Blaster once a month and you will prevent corrosion and broken fasteners. It is safe and it really works; cheap, too.

[buski]

@boarditup What specifically are you spraying?

[boarditup]

everything metal except for pulleys where the belts ride. It does not need to drip, but a nice sheen is what you are looking for.

[cooperrae]

If you are concerned with the oil, call Inmar directly. They have customer support (real people) for us boat owners who can tell you exactly what will be best to use based on what you are able to buy where you live. I have called them for support on fixing my motor for the last 3 years and they have given incredible service.

Go to inmar.com or just call them direct at 901-353-9930.

[usaski1]

I wish boats had oil engine life meters like new cars do.. no one changes their oil at 3000 miles anymore.. besides, the whole 3000 thing is made up by oil change shops and oil companies.

[bhs]

@usaski1 you bring up an interesting point. I have a company car and for years they require me to change my oil every 5,000 miles. Just picked up the new car and they have bumped it back to 8,000.

Not sure where the 3,000 mile or 50 hr standard came from. I stopped changing my oil every 50hrs after I switched to synthetic and high mileage filter. The first time I used that combo and changed at 50 and the oil came out as clean as it went in.

[cooperrae]

One thing to consider on a ski boat is we basically run the engine near 3700 RPMs all the time. Much more abusive than how we drive cars. My Malibu is 10 years old and I change every 50 hours. I wish the old oil was coming out clean, but it is not. Maybe I should try synthetic.

[Jody_Seal]

Keep in mind that marine motors particularly ski boat motors run at much higher RPM then that of their Automotive counterpart, They also run at lower block temp during service. Your older suburban with the 5.7 would chug down the interstate at 70 mph running 1900 rpm and 200 degrees. The ski boat motor at 36 mph is running around the 3800 rpm range and at 160-170 degrees, add That the ski boat motor with the start and stop is far more severe duty then that of the the Suburban motor hence regular oil change and quality of oil and filter is of optimum importance. Stay with in the manufacture guide lines and you will minimize engine failure.

Then again I have seen Ski school motors go 3000 hours with minimal oil changes.... What are the odds!

 

And why do people change oil in their boats and not the filter?

[walleye]

What is the thought on changing over to Mobil 1 synthetic from Valvoline 40 wt. VR-1 racing oil. The motor is a GT-40 with 1000 hours no problems oil/filter chg every 50 Hr..

[boarditup]

Sometimes in older engines you can get some seal leakage when you start using synthetic oil. This is due to the more refined base stock that does not have any long chain molecules (like waxes). The synthetic oil will dissolve the build-up on the seals and leak though. My 1985 Porsche is notorious for that after Mobile 1. Castrol GTX in that car. The cutoff date is typically the 1995-1998 era - when the seal material changed out. Synthetic blends typically do not have the leakage issue.

 

If you engine is newer - no issues. If older, use a blend or keep a 50-80 hour oil change schedule.

[Kelvin]

Interesting note on the RPMs. A typical ski boat will spend almost 1/2 of its hours at idle. Just an interesting side note. It doesn't change Jody's advice.

[6balls]

My aircraft engine runs 2400 continuous for hours on end. My M5 runs to redline more times daily than you can shake a stick. I'm 12 years and 100K plus into it and it runs fine. My ski boat engine is running far easier duty, idling for far longer than the 20 seconds it spends running down the course between hole shot, course, swing out.

Properly maintained our engines should last a very, very long time. I have to think most of us could go significantly longer intervals than what is typical. At the same time, a few quarts of oil and a filter do not break the bank...so why not? If you are wasting money, it ain't much.

[eleeski]

Arco graphite is not approved for my airplane. When the oil turns completely black it is time to change it. Typically 50 hours makes my aircraft oil filthy. But the airplane motor runs those 50 hours at an extremely high percent of maximum power for virtually all of those hours. Regardless of use, the oil must be changed annnually to keep the plane legally airworthy.

 

I am way over an appropriate calendar time interval before my car or boat engine oil gets dirty. And I think my 2004 MC needs its first tuneup (is that what @boarditup means by annual?) Maintenence is for people who are trying to avoid skiing.

 

Eric

[brody]

hey deke, that was a typo on my part, like you said it is 15w40, didnt know if marine grade made a difference. Was also not sure if the air/water temp would make a difference, max waer temp would be is 82f but usually through summer its high 70's, air is usaully high 80's through july.

[boarditup]

Marine grade oil is more tolerant of moisture in oil than automotive grade oils. That is because marine engine oils typically never get to water's boiling point where the water vapor can escape (positive crankcase ventilation). Synthetics are great for this, so are semi-synthetics.

 

eleeski: I "tune up" at winter layup. It takes only an hour to fill entire cooling system with anti-freeze, fog motor, clean BFFA, clean throttle body, remove impeller, drain block, change oil in engine, change oil in tranny, and change out plugs. FWIW - I kept a 1969 MerCruiser motor running for over 30 years with that system. I don't care to much about fin settings or a super clean hull, but I do like a well oiled machine that runs very well every time I go to fire it up. That is my OCD in this sport....

[justcuz]

My boat is an 87 Chevy 350 Inmar. Two years ago I put 15w40 synthetic in there (Mobil 1). This year at the suggestion of my mechanic, I put straight weight in there 0-40 I think. I'm going to change back to the synthetic this year I think. Admittedly I didn't notice much of a difference, but I have it in my head that synthetic will be better in the long run.

 

I was also told by another very, very mechanically inclined person that changing the filter is extremely important every season, but actually changing the oil isn't as crucial. Not sure if I'll live by that logic....but thought I'd throw it out there.

[eleeski]

@boarditup My wife would never let me get a new boat if I followed that maintenence program! In fact, if I need to upgrade to the latest and greatest I have to put sand in the oil and have the boat blow up while Lisa is skiing. Careful calculations (along the lines of government budget theory) will show that the new boat is the only way to go.

 

Mechanical repair or maintenence is not recreation for me. I need the time to be covered with itchy toxic composite dust to enjoy my recreational ski building. Hmmm, maybe I'm screwed up?

 

Eric

[WilburHullinger]

I don’t personally know about the oil you’re talking about but I can suggest you a place where you can surely find it. The place is http://www.iautobodyparts.com/shop_by_part_category.html here you can get lots of other things related to auto as well. I’ve bought some stuff from here and I’m pretty happy with the decision I took. So I’d recommend you to visit this place once.

[skihacker]

the best and easiest deal i've found is at walmart of all places, they sell mobil 1 15w50 in the 5 quart jugs, if you find it on sale it's around 25 bucks.

[BraceMaker]

Some oil thoughts.

 

Got Amazon Prime in Canada??

 

http://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-550022734-15W-40-4-Cycle-Marine/dp/B0000AY493/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403705141&sr=8-1&keywords=15w-40+marine

 

I buy most of my oil through Amazon Prime.

 

Also you can look locally for Mercury Marine Dealers - they have a good oil product in the 15-40 diesel oil.

[kstateskier]

I just bought an 04 LXI and am using Rotella 15w40 and the Pennzoil filter. I have always changed my oils every 50 hours or twice a summer.

[bbruzzese]

Ditto on the Mobil 1 15W50 at Walmart...

[jpattigr]

I called PCM and had a great chat with the folks there about oil, have run Rotella T 15-40 ever since that phone call on my 351w in 97 SN.

[oldjeep]

@Bracemaker - decent deal on that. That is about the price I pay for that oil from Bakes (after discount), but without the free shipping. Never occurred to me to buy oil through Amazon.

[Wish]

So, what if I've been running the same oil for the last 10yrs in the boat...doesn't it cause more issues with a switch. And, doesn't temperature have something to do with what you use when? Summer hot 90s even in am. Winter 40s 50s am.

[oldjeep]

Temp variation is why you run a multigrade like 15w40 rather than a straight sae40

[BraceMaker]

@‌oldjeep - Ya, it was something I got turned onto when buying oil for my car, you can get the "european" castrol syntec which is BMW approved through amazon prime.

 

You can also save stuff, and buy your oil/filters/spark plugs etc. etc. and you can go back and find your old orders. It also will alert you when things are on sale so you can stock up.

 

 

In re: oil weights - two things make it less common to have to do so in your boat. 1 - the fact that once you get down below certain temps most people stop using the boat so starting performance in -15 degree temps isn't important. 2 - with open loop cooling and an infinite supply of cool water to keep the engine chilly most boat engines are almost over cooled.

 

Combined you have the ability to run a simple multiweight oil in almost all temperatures you'd use the boat.

 

Or for instance many older boats allow you to run single weight oil.

[eleeski]

@Wish‌ I think that is really cool that you haven't changed your oil for 10 years. Maybe based on your experience I'll go a few more years before I change my oil. It does seem like every time I change my oil something bad happens. I'm not sure how having a switch affects oil - I have ZO so we only use the switch for jumping at tournaments.

Eric

[jhughes]

@6balls another E39 M5 owner on the board? You better believe that S62 has to hit redline every day to be happy. Keep the carbon out.

 

GT40/Ford 351 boats have flat tappet lifters and need high ZDDP content. The roller guys have a lot more options for oil but for my GT40 it's VR1 Racing oil only.

[6balls]

@jhughes yeah I had a 2000 Dinan e39 M5 til last year. 4 door sedan good for 180 plus and could get there in a hurry. Will go down as one of my favorites of all time. My rear tire budget was ridiculous...but at the same time a quiet, wonderful, German sedan when that is what was needed. Right now I'm in a ML63 AMG...different, but cool in it's own way...mostly the 500+ hp and AWD. Rides like a MB sedan when not pushing it and interior wonderful...loses dynamics to lighter sedan in the twisties...but remarkable just the same given size, center of gravity, weight...kinda mind bending.

[Wish]

@eleeski ...funny.

 

@jhughes‌ can you explain your comments a little further. ZDPD? Flat tappet filters? How is racing oil related to this?

[jhughes]

@6Balls I don't think I'd ever have the heart to get rid of the ol' girl. Best looking and all around favorite car of all time to me. Keeps me busy with wrenching too.

[BraceMaker]

@wish - OOO and oil thread!

 

 

[skihard]

I run Royal Purple 15-40. I have ran it in all 3 boats we have owned and NEVER once had an issue with any of the motors as far as oil goes.

[oldjeep]

@skihard - ever know anyone who has an oil related issue in anything? This gets down to the conventional/synthetic/Mobile1/Amsoil/Royal Purple threads that get started in every auto forum on earth.

 

I've got 100s of thousands of miles on trucks and jeeps running conventional oil with no issues. Is it because dino oil is superior or that oil related issues are not really that common (unless you forget to put it in).

[ScarletArrow]

A couple of questions...

 

1- Where do you guys find Royal Purple 15w-40? I went to my local Autozone and Advance Auto and they don't carry that weight. Is this a special order item?

 

2 - If you're using the Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, obviously you don't need the 15w rating? Why is that?

 

3 - Related to #2 above... I've always used Mobile 1 synthetic 10w-40 - is that a sufficient replacement since the weight is the same?

 

Trying to educate myself on oil on forums is quite a project!

[eleeski]

@oldjeep‌ Certain aircraft engines had cam and lifter issues. Never a consistently operated high time engine but the neglected for months $100 hamburger chaser. An oil additive was engineered to solve this problem with reasonably good results. So sometimes the oil matters. Aircraft engines are filthy wide tolerance antique designs whose only strength is spectacular reliability. The oil turns black after 50 hours and even I change my oil on schedule. Modern marine engines with the perfect cooling from unlimited lake water are another story. My goal is to wear out the hard parts on a boat engine - it will never happen. An overheating event, a rat chewed part, corrosion or some external breakdown will ruin the engine first. Oil is too far down the list to worry about.

Eric

[BraceMaker]

@wish - ZDDP is a compound of zinc and phosphate which was commonly added to oil and has some big benefits when it comes to certain wear surfaces particularly in surfaces that slide past each other (like flat tappet cams sliding past the flat lifters as opposed to having a ball bearing rolling over it)

 

Unfortunately due to a few factors one being that new engines might not really benefit from ZDDP as well as the fact that the oil that does burn tends to then plug up the catalytic converter on your vehicle and the ZDDP being possibly Toxic have lead to its decrease in concentration in modern automotive oils.

 

As such many people are OBSESSED with ZDDP oils. Where racing oils come in is that certain additives that are known to be good for engines in high stress environments (like race engines) and engines that are often purposefully built simply to reduce failures (like race engines) often get the oils that are great for that - and stuffed full of stuff not deemed appropriate for the road. Consider Race fuel still is leaded (lead is great stuff in fuel).

 

For awhile diesel oils were a great go to - but they're under the same emissions pressure as the other road going vehicles and as such those oils sometimes get downgraded.

[BraceMaker]

@ScarletArrow‌ you have to make sure your specific engine recommends a certain oil.

 

It may be that you can use several different weights.

 

Also many people will purposefully go 10-40 instead of 15-40 as both oils should perform similarly at engine operating temps.

 

Look in your engine manual for something like this;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/5speedz34/107076201.gif

[ScarletArrow]

@BraceMaker‌ thanks! I'm running a 2012 CC 200 with the 5.7 - I'll look for more detail in the manual.

 

I find it interesting that there's different approaches to weight, zinc content, synthetic, etc. Who knew oil was so complicated!?

 

Being a non-engineer and non-mechanic, I can't discern fact from fiction when it comes to an approach to oil type that people may espouse on other forums (planetnautique, correctfan). Part of me just wants the no-nonsense practical answer, another part of me wants to dive into all the gory details.

 

I bought Rotella 15w-40 w/ an FL-1A filter today.

[DW]

@scarletarrow: you can actually get Royal Purple at WalMart, many auto parts stores will carry it, the speed shops in particular. The lower viz number is for cold starts and lubrication until the engine warms up, the actual viscosity one needs really relates to the clearances in the engine. Depending on the specific engine, pretty much all except maybe the Hammerhead (loose clearances), a 10W-40 is a good choice. As noted, the ski boat engines run pretty cool, so the marine spec oils are helpful based on the specific additive package.

[Chuck_Dickey]

The 2014 MasterCraft ProStar with Ilmor 5.7L uses 5W-30 full synthetic Pennzoil Platimum. So does the 6.2L

[bbruzzese]

Royal purple from Amazon...free freight if you're Prime.

[XR6Hurricane]

While marine engines do see more rpm, and ski boats see a lot of starting and stopping, there is one factor that everyone ignores. The lake is the worlds biggest Buick Dynaflow transmission (as in, fluid drive) which absorbs the shock to the drivetrain and ultimately the motor. Not like tires biting into the concrete and shifting gears under hard acceleration.

 

Pretty tough to actually wear out an engine on even the cheapest of today's oils if you follow the owner's manual.