Just realized I'm not allowed to compete in regionals and nationals.

[kfennell]

So it turns out that the regional and national competitions don't allow non U.S. Citizens. So even though I live here full time and have for 6 years, and I have only ever skied in the US, I cannot ski at nationals at all it seems and I can only ski at regionals more or less for fun, I can't ski in mens 2 or have my results count for anything.

 

:(

[kfennell]

I could join the army, in fact if I was younger I would even be eligible for the draft. Seems reasonable.

[The_MS]

Have fun hosting Nationals.

[kfennell]

I think they can count us out of lending much support for that now...

[skifreak]

There goes my Florida vacation this year! :(

[Horton]

No I am pretty sure you can ski it. But you need to qualify.

[kfennell]

4.02 National Tournament Qualifications

General: A contestant in the National Tournament must have competed in the

corresponding event at his Regional Tournament (see Rules 4.03 and 4.06) during

the same year. To have competed in an event at a Regional Tournament means to

have attained skiing position in each event as defined in Rule 8.07. In addition, a

contestant must qualify under Rules 4.02.A, 4.02.B, or 4.02.C (below) and must be

TOC11

a U.S. Citizen. However, a competitor who skis in international competition for

another federation shall not be eligible for placement for two years following the

international competition. Any skier competing in international competitions

representing Guatemala, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Cuba,

Ecuador, Bolivia, Panama, Paraguay, Uruguay and Venezuela with dual US

citizenship would be exempt from rule 4.02.A and 4.03.A for the period of January

1, 2012 until December 31, 2012. A skier who enters the Open division at the

Nationals in any event is not required to ski in his Regional Tournament.

 

 

Regionals:

 

All entrants in a Regional Tournament shall be U.S. citizens, unless the

Region determines to allow non-US citizens (or resident aliens) to

participate, but not for placement. However, a competitor who skis in

international competition for another federation shall not be eligible for

placement for two years following the international competition.

[Kelvin]

There's still the Big Dawg!

[kfennell]

Im 29!

[Dirt]

@kfennell can you jog slowly? You do not need to be a US Citizen to compete. It is probably way cheaper than skiing.

 

[kfennell]

Ha youd think that but I bet those dogs are 10's of thousands. Also this isn't helping.

[Dirt]

Unfortunately I don't have any helpful ideas.

[MattP]

Become a US Citizen....

[Horton]

Still need to qualify

[kfennell]

I I cannot just BECOME a citizen for another 3 years.

 

Qualifying is easy, all I have to do is qualify for regionals overall (2x level 5 scores) then I am automatically in because there are no Mens 2 overall skiiers.

 

 

[jdarwin]

@kfennell - just got your e-mail. An exception to participate in our Regionals w/o placement is easy to obtain. Not certain about Nationals but in the end, the "US Citizen" restriction on skiing for placement will always be in play.

[Wish]

Almost got politecal by saying... give it a few years and by then any "resident alien" will become a citizen. Sure glad I avoided that. ;)

[ForrestGump]

Why in the world would anyone every want to go back to Canada? That's like going to Minnesota, only worse!

[The_MS]

Canada Rocks.

[Horton]

Canada has to be better than Minnesota

[The_MS]

Minnesota has better Beer but Canada has better Fishing and Hockey.

[thager]

Yeah, definitely worse!

[RazorRoss3]

Minnesota is definitely better than Canada, we get summer sooner which means a longer ski season.

[lpskier]

So ski Nationals in Canada. That's what the Llewellyns, McClintocks, Rosses, Rinis, Dodds, etc. all do. Your distance/travel time to Canadian Nationals is no longer or harder than my trip from Lake Placid, NY to Bako, WPB or Texas.

[MattP]

@lpskier I think you are right.

@kfennell go visit your kin folk And ski

[Mateo_Vargas]

Any Mens 1 skiers have a fake ID they no longer need?

[skifreak]

@lpskier - that's not really the point. In two weeks we move into a house who's backyard is literally the site for 2014 nationals and he can't even ski if he wants to....

 

I'm actually kind of upset over this. Why do the rules not include permanent residents who don't compete in other countries?! Kind of ridiculous that he lives here, works here, owns a house on a site here, only skis here but we'd have to go to separate nationals....(I AM A US citizen and while traveling for one nationals might not be a big deal, two is). I realize our situation is pretty unique but think he ought to be able to forfeit Canadian nationals for the US.

[MattP]

The name of it is "US Nationals" not "I happen to be in the US and want to ski their Nationals tournament".... Sorry just the way it is.

[RichardDoane]

@kfennell - Nationals it's a very expensive 1 round tournament, be glad you have a reason to not spend the excessive entry fee

[skifreak]

It's not like he just "happens" to be here. Hardly the case. He friggin only pays US taxes for crying out loud.

[ForrestGump]

@skifreak Here's your chance to lobby for a change to the rules. Draft what you consider to be a reasonable rule that would allow some sort of nationals entry for a permanent resident and send it to the powers that be. See what happens. You have 18 months.

[Horton]

I think the guys at http://whatshouldwecallski.tumblr.com/ have explained this pretty well

 

http://media.tumblr.com/d081eec4f7beaa383951bfe62ae5d171/tumblr_inline_mhkbo7uI9I1qz4rgp.gif

[lpskier]

@skifreak I understood that kfennell has a place at the site of the 2013 US National Championships. Personally, I am excited to go there to ski. I do, however live about 60 miles from Canada and a two hour drive to Montreal or Ottawa. Why can't I go ski Canadian Nationals? 1.5@38 won Men's 5 last year in Canada. 3.5@39 won it in the US. I like my chances better in Canada. But since I'm not Canadian, I am ineligible. The point is that at the Canadian Nationals, the best Canadian is the winner. At US Nationals, the best US skier is the winner. Other than Nationals, kfennell is eligible to ski every tournament in the country if he qualifies The fact that he can't ski US Nationals at his home site because he isn't a US Citizen is not really any different than if he was but didn't otherwise qualify. We had the Olympics here in Lake Placid, but they didn't let me play on the hockey team.

[skifreak]

honestly, if you ski in Canada then why not. The major difference is he doesn't live in Canada. He lives here, works here, pays taxes here and its even allowed to join the military here. But he can't ski us nationals. So we're more than happy to let him die for us but not ski for us. Why aren't people allowed to waive their right to compete in other countries if the circumstances allow? I totally understand your point about Canadians winning Canadian Nationals and Americans winning US Nationals. However, he can't even apply to become a citizen for another three years (must have green card for 5) Even if he does, does that make it ok for a Canadian born to win just because he's now classified as a citizen? If that's what you're concerned about then only US born citizens should be eligible...

 

@Shaneh - done and emailed the board members last night. :)

[drew]

Ski Canadian Nationals--great site and two rounds!

Plus, Tim Hortons for breakfast and Earl's for dinnner...hard to beat.

And as lpskier mentioned, a better chance of hopping on the plane and explaining to everybody that you are national champion!

[Wish]

Well, I'll toss this out there. This year I competed in the Midwest regionals. I was not allowed to place because I live in FL. It was actually cheaper by a long shot do to having all my family living there along with my division skiing on the weekend apposed to a work day. Needed to attend a regionals to go to nats but again could not place. I think I would have taken 4th or 5th with my score but didn't really care. Family and friends attended and we had a blast. My point is this. I did not knock someone from that region off the podiam. I don't think the skiers from that region would like a FL skier (skis yr round) taking a Midwest medal back to FL. So I'm in agreement with @MattP. The US National is just that US. Plenty of pros from other countries live here in FL. What if they skied regionals or nats and knocked folks off the podiams. BTW plan to attend Midwest reg again this yr. They put on a great tournament in MN!!

[ntx]

@skifreak, & @kfennell, Good luck with that, I see no problem limiting nationals to US citizens only. You are allowed to ski in regionals for non placement. This has been the policy for a very long time. How many foregin skiers do you think live and train in Flordia and Louisiana? I don't think any amount of e-mails to board members will change this.

 

It is always hard to tell what will be required to qualify for nationals thru placement at regionals. It is very possable that with nationals in Texas in 2014, more of the M2 overall skiers within the region will try to qualify. I am not sure what the current rules are now for nationals with a regionals placement but at one time there was a min. It may just require a score above zero in all three events. This may have changed after the G1 trick skier from several years ago.

[skifreak]

Maybe I'm just being whiny because it affects me personally but the issues with pros is ENTIRELY different. Kevin isn't skiing for money, sponsorship or competing in other countries. For all intents and purposes, he's a citizen without the paperwork. This isn't a pro event. He's not trying to ski somewhere he doesn't live. If you live and work here PERMANENTLY then you should be allowed to ski. Like I said, if it's the title you have an issue with - you're still not going to be happy if he wins as an official "citizen" but is Canadian born. I don't see a functional difference in his status now and having a paper that says he's a "citizen".

 

As far as skiing in Canada. He's never skied tournaments there and doesn't even know any Canadian skiers. How much fun would you have showing up to a tournament where you don't know a single person? Tournaments are as much about hanging out with your buddies as they are skiing. It's not about getting a higher ranking, it's about actually being able to compete where you live, work and ski. I think it actually looks worse for him to fly back to Canada and ski once a year, taking a spot from somebody who actually practices and lives there than it does if he competes here. If you were on the other end of that arrangement I think you'd be pretty pissed. Imagine a pro lives in another country and the only time they ski here is for Regionals and Nationals (no practicing, no other tournaments) and he pushes you out of a top ranking you could have had. I'd have to imagine there would be a lot of "But he doesn't even live here!!!" arguments happening...

[Wish]

@skifreak. Agree with what you are saying. Makes total commen sence and if in his indavidual situation can have the powers that be change the rules for him great. But it would set presidence for those that may abuse (for lack a a nicer term) such a rule change. That's where things get a bit muddy.

[skifreak]

@Wish - totally agree. But what checks are currently in place? It seems that if his status wasn't common knowledge he could have just signed up and skied without issue. It seems like we're already just relying on other skiers to police eligibility and speak up when something's wrong...

[Wish]

@skifreak We do rely on skiers to police, make rules, judge, run tournaments. We rely on the competitors to be honest as well. Not always the best results (Dr Michaels comes to mind) but it's what we have. And much thanks to any and all of those who do give their time to do just that.

[ntx]

@wish, You are correct. It's too bad that too many times people don't do the right thing. It is always easy to say "who's gonna know"

[skier2788]

@wish I think I a difference in your situtaion is if you had skied the majority of you tournaments in that region for the ten weeks prior you could have placed. There is an exeption if you wanted to place in their regionals. Why not have an exception for people in kfennels place saying if you have not skied in an international tournament winthin the last two years and are a legal RESIDENT of the US. You are allowed to compete. Would eliminate the pros

[skier2788]

A bit of a side note how does it work for someone from bolivia? Says they can compete. Is a territory considered citizen or .........

[Horton]

If we are going to let non US citizens ski in regionals and in Nationals for placement - I think all skiers who live and train in Florida should not be able to represent their home countries at Worlds. They should have to ski for the US or move home.

 

(sarcasm intended)

 

It is the US national championship. If you want to ski in it for placement become a citizen.

[skifreak]

I think World's is an entirely different problem/category. This isn't an all or nothing issue and you're trying to lump kevin into a class of skiers in which he does not fit. If a skier lives here, works here and only wants to ski in the US (and be ineligible in other countries)- why is that not their option assuming permanent residency status?

 

If you're an amateur and want to ski US nationals - waive the right to ski in other countries and ski where you live.

 

If you're a pro or want to ski World's and aren't a citizen - don't compete in US nationals, this doesn't change how you're currently living and everybody is happy.

 

Putting a time limit on this as @skier2788 suggested is a great idea (ie no international events in the past two years). Why is flexibility not an option and why are Americans so afraid of a little Canadian giving them competition.

[Horton]

@skifreak should Drew Ross be able to ski M3 at US Nationals. Should he have the ability to be US National Champ?

[skifreak]

If he's not competing internationally or not trying to represent multiple countries simultaneously, then absolutely. I have no problem with that. If he got his citizenship paperwork tomorrow would you still tell him he can't compete because he's not really American? No. So what makes tomorrow so different from today.

 

Being American isn't about paperwork. Shouldn't how you live count for something?

 

Feel free to enlighten me as to what makes a person worthy of competing at Nationals if it's not permanently living here, working here, paying taxes here, being eligible to join the military, skiing here full time, and only participating in tournaments here.

[Wish]

@skifeak there was no exception. I could not place. Totally understood it and accepted it and plan to do it again. If there was a rule that said southern resedent skier cannot place in a midwest tournament regardless of the number of turnaments skied in that region I'd have to follow it . If the Midwest is where I stayed, worked and skied, I'd just change my residence. Of course I'd then be paying income tax. Again, I get hes not a pro but the rule change would affect all tournament skiers and what they can do as far as shffting around to benifit their needs. If his situation can be resolved without a ripple affect..great. But cannot see a ripple affect not happening.

[BK]

Kevin, hopefully you'll ski more than one tournament this year, and ski overall for the first time in a tournament. That would be a great place to start, Amigo.

Personally I hope M2 and the other smaller divisions grow and become more competitive. It seems like situations like this would be helpful for that IF the skier is on a legitimate path to citizenship. And Kevin, since you mentioned the tax disadvantages and shortcomings of becoming a US citizen, maybe you're not on that path.?

Last thing is, our site is hosting the tournament. Many people that aren't skiing Nationals will be working their butts off to help us put on a great tournament. Skiing is one thing but hosting is a major team effort.