Herniated disc - maybe not skiing this year.

[sunvalleylaw]

So first post this season. Was looking forward to getting going after all I learned last year here. But . . . I had been fighting some sciatica, and was just told the MRI I had to check it out revealed a herniation of the L4/L5 disc with a fragment. Just made the appointment with the spine doc. Dang.

 

For those of you that have been through it, please throw a little hope out my way. A quick search on the site shows that a few of you have dealt with issues like this and are still skiing. I anticipate taking my time to recover well before pushing it on a slalom ski, but hopefully I can get out there again.

[Roger]

What are they going to do for the repair? If it's a fusion that low, I would think you will be fine. I had two fusions in my cervical area (c5-6, c6-7) in 1996 and I have no issues other than I have some limited mobility (IE: I can't tilt my head back as far as I could before the fusions). I spent a fair amount of time determining who would do the surgery since they will be working right next to the spinal cord...

[2tracmind]

The L4-5 is very common area to injure. It is possible to have had herniations that are asymptomatic for years. I have had compressed discs of L4-5 for more that 20 years. My L5 disc is half the thickness of the one above when it should be the thickest.

Find a great physio who specializes in back/pelvis assessments and you will learn alot. There are many stabilizing muscles in the pelvis and abs that most people do not activate or engage in most workout routines.

I have been pain free for more than five years and I have not missed a set due to back pain since.

A non-stacked position (hips back, handle separated) putts tremendous pressure on those discs.

With some luck and effective exercises your season is not lost.

 

[rayn]

Had a laminectomy/discectomy(a trimming of the effected fragment/herniation) 16+ years ago. Relieved the sciatica and leg weakness I experienced and have been skiing ever since. Recovery from that surgery was quite quick and I was back in the gym in 2 weeks.

[MrJones]

I am a PT and have had a L5-S1 micro discectomy 6 years ago. Chad Scott, Jay Leach, and Todd Ristorcelli have had them as well. The micro is truly not that big a deal. The surgeons vary in what they tell you, but at a recent Andrew's Institute Sports Medicine conference I asked the presenting neurosurgeon about what his return to sport (football) recommedation was. He said there is no hard research on it, but he uses 3 months with no pain and good function for a release criteria.

 

Of course that is with a college or pro level player in peak physical condition with unlimited ability to rehab. For most normal people I would recommend you take 6 months for recovery. I had surgery in November and skied in March. Should have just had surgery earlier in the year to give it more time off over the winter.

 

Of course if you need a fusion it will take longer. You should do fine though.

sj

[Than_Bogan]

Every disc injury is different, and I think my biggest recommendation is to consult at least 2 doctors and at least 2 chiropractors to gather all of your options.

 

But as far as hope: Yeah, I had a double-herniation in 2008, and was out about half of that season. By 2009 I could ski, but was definitely not pushing it. 2010 I felt in full form by the end of the season. 2011 was the best season of my life.

 

I did not opt for surgery. The evidence I gathered suggested that long-term the surgery offered no benefit. But a key factor was that I work at my desk all day, so I could afford to ice a lot and limp around very slowly with no load for a few months. Those whose livelihood depends on carrying things may have to make a different decision.

[Skoot1123]

@sunvalleylaw - Bummer man! Hope you are able to get it taken care of and get back to skiing before the season is done!

[gregy]

Is there any proof that those inversion table work? A friend of mine has one and uses it religiously but hes not sure how much it actually helps.

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks for the encouragement guys! A lot of experience with blown discs here it seems. I have an appointment with the only spine specialist around, who is supposed to be conservative and good. I have a call in to my PT to see if he has any other suggestions for referrals. I would probably be looking at Boise or SLC to find more good spine docs.

 

No word on a plan of any kind yet. Just the general doc reading what the radiologist said on the MRI report. The doc did not have a firm opinion about a plan other than going to see the specialist.

 

My wife is a chiro, so I have to be careful about second opinions there. ;-) She said the same thing that @MrJones said about recovery time. She also said to stop having poor posture in my desk chair at work, and don't sit at the computer too much at home. My office may end up having a make over with a standing work station. Sitting (and driving) seem to aggravate it more than about anything right now.

[ktm300]

I herniated L5 S1. There is a lot of evidence that it will "heal" without surgery. Mine did. You may be way ahead on the knowledge curve of what constitutes proper core mechanics and training but I sure wasn't. Read everything and nothing gave me a better education than Mike Robertson's material. MS in biomechanics. http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/core-fitness/

Some of the doctors that I consulted had me thinking that I was done with skiing. If your doctor thinks this way, then find another one who doesn't.

 

The best advice I got was from other skiers on this forum. We have Dr.'s, Chiro's, PT's and other health care practitioners on this forum. Thanks again to those who helped me.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[ktm300]

I herniated L5 S1. There is a lot of evidence that it will "heal" without surgery. Mine did. You may be way ahead on the knowledge curve of what constitutes proper core mechanics and training but I sure wasn't. Read everything and nothing gave me a better education than Mike Robertson's material. MS in biomechanics. http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/core-fitness/

Some of the doctors that I consulted had me thinking that I was done with skiing. If your doctor thinks this way, then find another one who doesn't.

 

The best advice I got was from other skiers on this forum. We have Dr.'s, Chiro's, PT's and other health care practitioners on this forum. Thanks again to those who helped me.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[ktm300]

I herniated L5 S1. There is a lot of evidence that it will "heal" without surgery. Mine did. You may be way ahead on the knowledge curve of what constitutes proper core mechanics and training but I sure wasn't. Read everything and nothing gave me a better education than Mike Robertson's material. MS in biomechanics. http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/core-fitness/

Some of the doctors that I consulted had me thinking that I was done with skiing. If your doctor thinks this way, then find another one who doesn't.

 

The best advice I got was from other skiers on this forum. We have Dr.'s, Chiro's, PT's and other health care practitioners on this forum. Thanks again to those who helped me.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[ktm300]

I herniated L5 S1. There is a lot of evidence that it will "heal" without surgery. Mine did. You may be way ahead on the knowledge curve of what constitutes proper core mechanics and training but I sure wasn't. Read everything and nothing gave me a better education than Mike Robertson's material. MS in biomechanics. http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/core-fitness/

Some of the doctors that I consulted had me thinking that I was done with skiing. If your doctor thinks this way, then find another one who doesn't.

 

The best advice I got was from other skiers on this forum. We have Dr.'s, Chiro's, PT's and other health care practitioners on this forum. Thanks again to those who helped me.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[ktm300]

FAQ How to delete accidental duplicates.

[Ed_Johnson]

@ktm300.....So do you really feel Robertson's Course is worth $127 dollars as advertised, and you got your moneys worth ?

 

Is it a program you need to do at the gym, or can a lot of it be done at home ?

[Razorskier1]

I'd say surgery is the last option on that injury. I ruptured L4-5 a few years back. Couldn't walk, and eventually lost feeling and all strength in my right leg. I was staring at surgery when I noticed slight improvement. I talked to my PT and he said that if it starts to improve, it will keep improving. We did therapy and avoided surgery and he was right. All of these are different, so can't speak for yours specifically, but you may be able to at least put it off for a few more years with good PT. Sooner or later we'll probably all be fused!

[ktm300]

@Ed_Johnson For me it was. (I paid $99) Just a good education in core function. Of course, if the biomechanics of core function is something you already know a lot about, may not be as useful to you. Another product that he has which is excellent is Assess and Correct. I have spent a lot of money on trying to keep my body going so, in the scheme of things, these products are inexpensive to me. The Stuart McGill books which @MrJones recommended are also a good education.

[The_MS]

I have been reading about some stem cell stuff they can do now to regenerate the disk. May want to check it out.

[Chef23]

I had a herniation in the L5/S1 region with a fragment embedded in the nerve. I had a microdiscectomy to remove the fragment a year and a half ago (October of 2011.) Because they had to dig the fragment out of the nerve it took about a month for the pain to settle down but 6 weeks later I was doing rehab and I got in better shape than before the injury and had a great ski season last year.

 

As @Than_Bogan said every injury is different and my neuro-surgeon said that I would likely get better eventually but it might take 6 months and it might take 2 years. That was before he knew the fragment was embedded in the nerve which they only found out through the surgery. After the surgery he said it likely wouldn't have completely gone away.

 

My surgeon wasn't quick to recommend surgery. He started with a couple of steroid injection and some PT which got me 70% better but not really able to ski or play golf the way I would like. At the end of the day for me surgery was the right decision.

[Than_Bogan]

Does anyone recommend fusions for this sort of injury any more? I thought that technique was deprecated? (In case that's a software engineer word that normal people don't use, it means: no longer recommend.) Microdiscectomy is totally different and if certain details of my situation had been different, I would have opted for it. In addition to rayn and Chef23 above, another club member MikeT had that done quite a few years ago. All three set personal bests afterward (though in Mike's case his very next season was a little below average). My cousin also had the microdiscectomy, and is able to do a lot, but he has not really had a 100% recovery. This is probably because of other injuries, but nevertheless it points out that microdiscectomy is not quite a panacea.

[eleeski]

Maybe a bit off topic, but the Goode Powervest unloads some of the back. I don't know if it transfers load to somewhere dangerous for your specific injury - find a waterskiing PT. My waterskiing PT (Ben Harwood in La Mesa, CA) approved the Powervest for my mid back pain and it seems to have allowed me to keep skiing. My buoy count is another thing but at least I can occasionally get out and slalom. Enough to hurt my hip but that's another issue. Never succumb to age!

 

Eric

[Razorskier1]

@Than_Bogan -- fusion is still the "gold standard" for chronic nerve pain in the back that can't otherwise be resolved. Not sure that it is directly applicable to this particular situation, but it remains a very high volume procedure.

[DLskier]

Long time reader, first time poster. Thought I would add my story to the mix as I had a microdiskectomy of L5/S1 on Valentine's day and can give you some insight to my experiences and recovery.

 

A little history: I am 28 years old, like to consider myself fairly athletic (D3 track and field athlete in Decathlon and jumps). Last year was my first year in the course, by the end of the year I was consistently running full passes at 15 off/30 mph. Have always had random on and off back pain. Would flair up after skiing too many sets or doing stupid (like fishing too much). Around Christmas time I started noticing some pain in my lower leg along with pain around my sciatic notch. Progressed to where I had almost complete numbness on the lateral side of my lower leg/foot and strength had dropped to where I could no longer do a single leg calf raise.

 

My wife is a PT so she was fairly certain I had some impingement on my S1 nerve root. An MRI showed a large herniation where my S1 nerve root was not even visible leaving the vertebrae. For me surgery was the only option I really considered, but bear in mind I could do next to nothing without being extremely uncomfortable. I could not stand for more than 2 minutes, could not work out at all, extension of my back was impossible and vicodin and oral steroids did nothing to dull the nerve pain. The only thing that would relieve my pain was traction. Met with the neuro surgeon and he agreed that in my current state it was not likely to get better and waiting may just increase nerve damage.

 

After surgery nerve pain was gone instantly, slight ache around incision site was all the discomfort I had. Walked alot the first month and obeyed lifting restrictions (nothing more than 10-15 pounds). After the first month was told I could pretty much do anything I wanted but to listen to my back. Started low impact cardio at 4 weeks, running at 8 weeks. I am 12 weeks post op this Thursday and my back does not stop me during workouts. I do various body weight exercises (lunges, squats, single leg squats, single leg deadlifts, planks) and my back is not an issue. That being said I have completely changed how I even pick up a simple pencil from the floor. I no longer sit, (I'm a middle/high school science teacher and rarely sit for more than 10 minutes at a time when I am at work), and at 6'1" have dropped from 185# from last summer down to 170# now, which I did to help reduce stress on my back in the future.

 

As for skiing, the surgeon said I should be good to go by the summer. When the ice finally melts off our lakes I plan to rip it up, but "smartly" at first. No long sets, and no more than 1 set every other day for a few weeks.

 

Sorry for the long first post! Just wanted to give you my example of a microdiskectomy. I agree with everyone else where surgery should be a last option, but for me I was truly at that point. Sunvalleylaw, don't hesitate to email me if you have any questions about my recovery or procedure.

[Skoot1123]

@DLskier - welcome to BOS! @sunvalleylaw - looks like there are plenty of people that have experienced your problem and have offered good advice!

 

I call this - the power of the BOS!

[SkiJay]

I can throw my hat in this ring too @sunvalleylaw. I came into skiing with a herniated and arthritic L5. I reinjured it a couple of times while skiing early on too, but there's hope. I resisted surgery and pursued stretching, physio and better skiing technique instead. I still have to stretch before I can get off the bed in the morning or bend over a sink, but I'm still able to avoid surgery too (I just had another friend die of something he didn't have when he checked into the hospital). You may be dealing with a sore back on some level from now on, but on the bright side, it will be the best technique coach you ever have.

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks everyone! This group has been as informative and encouraging or more than anything I have run into, especially regarding returning to full activity after a good recovery. I am seeing the spine doc tomorrow, and will see what he says as far as an approach. Thanks again Ballers! You have no idea how much I appreciate it.

[bojans]

I had a micro discectomy with laminectmy about 7 years ago. Wish I had done it sooner. Recovery was a couple weeks and the pain was gone immediately. One of the docs I saw prior to the surgery said if they can clearly see the damage and the symptoms are consistent with the damage the chances for success are very high. He said where you get in trouble is the "well this might be the problem" and the patient is in enough pain to try anything. That is where the horror stories come from. Good luck.

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, I have a pretty large fragment hanging out of L4, but the doc says that signs are good it will heal without surgery. Just will take some time. He says it is in a place that indicates it can be encircled as the area heals itself. The question is whether to inject steroids to calm the initial inflammatory period or not. Things seem to be progressing for the better, so I am going to do therapy for a couple weeks and wait it out. If I need to get back in for an injection, he says no problem. A matter of comfort and quality of life. It seems to be cooling on its own so I will give it a little time. If in a couple weeks I feel stuck I will go back in for the shot.

[Skoot1123]

@sunvalleylaw - great news! If you don't have to have surgery - put it off as long as possible!

[jcamp]

I recommend the epidural steroid injection. I had one two weeks ago and so far it's been great. I was in a lot of pain and my season was in doubt, but since having it I've felt really good and actually skied once without pain.

 

[Chef23]

I would recommend the injection also it made a difference for me.

[matt_b]

By all the responses, everyone is different. I had a laminectomy L-4 L-5. I herniated my disc while snowboarding. Had pain running down my right leg starting in my cheek, down to the ankle. Tried everything, acupuncture, PT, epidural steroid injection which hurt like hell. Nothing worked. Finally went to a ortho. He suggested the laminectomy. Had it done and within 3 weeks I was back to light duty as a plumber and now after 16 years I have no problems at all. I am doing more activities now then ever. Only thing I would do different is go to a Neurosurgeon.

[sunvalleylaw]

Just checking back in. Not skiing yet, but making progress. In the last couple weeks, I have been cleared by my PT for swimming (pain as guide) and light cycling, starting at 20 min on smooth surface and adding slowly (again pain as guide). The foot weakness is pretty well resolved, and the pain is much better, though I still take a little Ibuprofen and acetiminophen. Hopefully I can get on a ski at some point this year.

 

Just for giggles, here is an old photo circa early to mid 80's. I am the skier on the left of the photo in the blue shorts, riding a pair of Wiley's kid combos. That water was pretty choppy, but we pulled it off in front of the annual salmon bake that year.

 

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w92/sunvalleylaw/SkiPyramid_zps1abe5438.jpg

[Than_Bogan]

Great to hear from you!

 

GOOD LUCK!

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks! I am not hanging out here too much, as I want to focus on a good, full recovery and not be tempted into pushing it and re-injuring. Our resident PT said 3-6 months of recover, and pain free function before skiing. Matches up with my PT and doc (my doc probably would prefer I not ski, but I don't think he understands skiing as he keeps talking about the lack of control).

 

i'll get there, but in good time.

[jipster43]

Google Dr. Sarnos. There's an interesting 20/20 program about his unique methods. I know Howard Stern swears by him and Babba Booey (Howard's producer) was told surgery was his last option for his foot pain. He tried Dr. Sarnos first and was running pain free in a week.

 

Caution! His methods are fairly esoteric by American standards, but his success rate is phenomenal.

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, I am back! I have not posted since my last post in this thread because I did not want to rush my recovery and water skiing was not going to be in the picture for the remainder of the 2013 season. THEN, in late May of 2014, when I was getting ready to start skiing, I suffered a detached retinal for some dang reason. No clue why but my field of vision in my left eye started acting like a lunar eclipse. So, surgery for that first week of June, and no skiing due to needing to let that surgery heal. I did get to ski a few runs later in the summer. The good news there was that my back felt pretty good, though I could feel the fact that I skied. Winter came and that was that.

 

This year, got back into it in June, skiing 3 weekends in a row, (our local reservoir is dry and due to the distance to skiing, I have been a weekend warrior. then during our vacation in Washingon. The good news, back feels just fine. The not so good news, I am out of ski shape. However, I will have some opportunities to ski throughout the remainder of the summer, and hope to climb back into some sort of decent free-skiing form. I will probably mostly be a free skier now (which I pretty much was before other than starting to move more into the course in 2012), and use the course for training and fun when I have a chance. I would rather work on my form outside the course than get too focused on making that next ball, which historically is when all my form falls apart.

 

Anyways, I am back!

 

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Back at it this year, after a few runs the last couple years. Only a couple runs in 2014, and felt pretty decent last year, but just did not get as much skiing in as I hoped. But back at it, looking for an upgraded boat (we finally broke the tow bar out of the old outboard. Ripped it out of the old rotting floor, and cracked the fiberglass it was standing through. No one was hurt.) So, the kids and wife want to keep skiing, so newer boat it is!

 

My back is feeling pretty good, and I am working on updated form tips I have learned here, to reduce stress on my lower back as compared to how I have traditionally skied. I am trying to learn to be lighter on the line, better stack, etc. Gonna keep working those core exercises too. Glad to be back chasing improvement at age 53!

[Booze]

Congrats. After 2 cervical fusions, I totally understand the difficulties of a herniated disc.