RPM or MPH Paddle Wheel?

[LkSamm196]

What is the concensus from the group regarding Perfect Pass RPM mode or MPH (paddle wheel) for open water skiing and occasional course.

 

I am just defaulting to the wakeboard mode on the paddle wheel....set at 34.2 or 34.3

 

I know that it should be set up proper, but just don't want to hassle with it.

 

Should I put in some time to set up the RPM mode? I have done it in the past and it pulls better.

 

Thanks

[A_B]

I would run in slalom mode, which is rpm based. Not sure how the pull functions for slalom in Trick or WB mode. It was built on rpm algorithms for slalom though.

[Joeprunc]

PP suggests using RPM mode for any speeds higher than 25 mph. But in order for your RPM mode to reflect correct speeds, you must calibrate it first. Calibrating the RPM mode requires driving thru a slalom course and use a hand timer, smart magnets, or GPS locations to time each segment.

[Siouxcitysmitty]

I'm also curious as to the answer to this question. I use wakeboard mode too for rec skiing, as it just seems easier to change speeds as we switch from kids to adults to boarding to skiing etc.

 

My impression, though, is that it doesn't hold a slalom speed as tightly as it does when in RPM mode. But, I don't know for sure, as I'm the only one being pulled at slalom speeds, and, my wife/driver, is not the most reliable at paying attention to speed variance.

[ctsmith]

Just yesterday I used a boat with PP Wakeboard Pro.

 

There are three modes 1 - wakeboard (paddle wheel), 2 - RPM (RPM, obviously), 3 - Slalom (RPM). You will want to use slalom mode.

 

*First go to wakeboard mode and calibrate speed using a GPS for reference (I calibrated at 30 mph). You are doing this to make your speedometer accurate. The speedometer is always reading from the paddle wheel.

 

*Go to slalom mode and calibrate each of the various speeds that you are skiing by referencing the speedometer on the PP gauge (speedometer is reading from the paddle wheel) and verifying with the GPS. You can calibrate by timing through the course but lets face it, if you're using wakeboard pro you probably don't care about getting it perfect. I'd just go with the GPS calibration.

 

*Set to slalom mode and rock on!

 

BTW, it took less than 10 minutes to calibrate in wakeboard mode and several speeds in slalom mode. Its not a big deal at all, just make sure you've got a GPS on hand.

[ctsmith]

One more thing, either RPM based pulls will be a MUCH better pull (more smooth and consistant) than the paddle wheel (wakeboard) pull.

[A_B]

I would think a serious skier in paddle wheel mode would have the speed all over the place, all at a slight delay of what is needed.

[ctsmith]

The Wakeboard version has a slalom mode too (the one I used did). The big difference is that it doesn't have the capability of magnet timing.

[LkSamm196]

I have the wakeboard pro, 3 event.

 

Sounds like I should make the change to RPM mode.....just will need to calibrate.

[ctsmith]

You need to use slalom mode, not RPM mode.

[ctsmith]

Double post

[ctsmith]

Again, Wakeboard Pro has a slalom mode. Here's pages from the manual

 

 

 

 

 

[ctsmith]

The difference between RPM mode and Slalom mode is that in Slalom mode the setpoint input value is mph. In RPM mode the setpoint input value is RPM.

[bigtallweed]

You should be able to do a system reset and choice three event mode.This allows you to enter crew and skier weight to give a more accurate speed. Also when free skiing or course sking and not timing you need to add 25% on to the skier weight to off set the gate %

[LkSamm196]

Yes, there is a course I have access to, but I doubt it has magnets.

Yes, I have done the system reset and placed the PP in RPM mode...a few years back

 

I will have to make pretty crack calibrations....no GPS, no magnets.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Joeprunc]

Does your system have a manual timer/fall button. You can use this on the course instead of the smart timers to calibrate. As you go thru the course without a skier have the spotter hit the button at the entrance gates, ball 3, and exit gates. This will serve the same function as the magnets in setting up timing and speeds.

 

One like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Pass-Manual-Timer-Fall-Button-/370582493743

[ctsmith]

@scotchipman said:

 

"The slalom mode in Wakeboard Pro is just a glorified RPM mode and despite what the manual says it really does not pull at all like the slalom mode in the three event version. It is truly recreational and not made for course skiing or anyone halfway serious about slalom."

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the education Scot but I am a little confused. Can you please define a person who is serious about slalom and then elaborate on a person who is "halfway serious about slalom"? The OP says he is deciding between paddle wheel and RPM mode "for open water skiing and occasional course". He also does not have a GPS or magnets nor does he express a desire for such. He says he will make "crack calibrations". Apparently he is not very familiar with slalom speed control. He has previously been skiing in paddle wheel (wakeboard) mode. I assume he is not half way serious about slalom so it might be okay for him to use the RPM/Slalom mode? I've got to get this stuff figured out. Since you're president of the Utah Water Ski Club surely you can enlighten me.

 

Say you were presented with a situation where you could course ski but the only boat with access had wakeboard pro. Now, if I ski the course with this boat in slalom (rpm) mode does it mean that I am not halfway serious about slalom? If I turned the unit off and drove by hand would I be serious? If I pass up the opportunity to ski due to only having access to a Wakeboard Pro boat, sit at home, and wait several weeks for a ZO or SG boat, then will I be serious about slalom?

 

I never knew being serious about slalom was so complicated.

 

 

[LkSamm196]

Wow guys.

 

Yes, snowboarding is my main thing, not necessarily skiing the course. I am a professional at construction, not slalom skiing.

 

I ski in the cold water in the mornings before work. I try to be as competitive as I can....

I am pretty serious about slalom skiing.....just not very good (I don't live in Florida, have a real job and prefer heli skiing to boats)

 

I will ski your fancy ZO boat and your PP in recreation mode.

[Phil2360]

Few Times we've free skied we've used the hand time to guess the gates & start the PP Timer.

Haven't done that since the Z-Box upgrade, but presume would only need to turn 1 Ball magnets back on to do it.

 

Will have to check it out & see if it leaves the course mappings intact.

 

[Dusty]

I haven't been in the lake Sammammish course for a long time- I don't know if there are magnets in that course. Without magnets or without a sensor, or a 'smart timer' (borrow mine if you want!), you can still get a baseline calibration with a handheld GPS. Put in crew weight but do the calibrate without a skier. Get the boat straight line to steady speed at 34.2 or 32.3 or whatever you want. Write down/use the system's rpm numbers. Go to idle. Go to slalom mode calibrate, adjust the rpm to the correct speed/rpm, and you are done. When you pull a skier, add skier weight. The system senses rpm dropgain and adds/subtracts throttle, much smoother than paddle wheel mode.

[DW]

A key difference is the response to speed changes mainly due to skier rope load attempting to retard the boat or slow it down. In RPM or slalom mode the response to a drop in rpm will be quite short whereas the response to the paddlewheel signal change can be a longer delay. From the paddlewheel you have water to prop (which has slip) to tranny to flywheel speed then throttle. In RPM it is a much shorter "path" to the throttle, specifically flywheel speed. Thus, a paddlewheel signal will potentially offer a delay in response compared to RPM mode.

 

If your goal is to have the boat react similarly to what would happen at a tournament (since the requirement is to use a speed control system), then the preferred algorithm would be RPM mode. If quick changes to setup and the system response is not a critical factor, then speed sounds like the preferred method. If your goal is to smile as you round the little orange buoys, who cares, RPM, speed or hand control is way better than sitting on the dock. Have fun, finding a driver can be way harder than setting up the PP!

[east tx skier]

Sounds like Slalom mode in WB pro is a little different. Back when I had version 6.4, I tried open water skiing in speed mode. The boat surged all over the place with every pull. Never again.

 

Figure out what your baseline would be for your speed, add 100 rpm per 100 lbs of skier and crew weight, and add that to the rpm value. Then, run the boat in rpm mode at that rpm. Fine tune based on a GPS or Airguide reading (you can add/subtract rpm on the fly in rpm mode). If you run slalom mode (I'm talking about slalom mode in digital pro) in open water and want to be super precise, you'll need to add rpms based on 28% of skier weight since the system won't add that in because it will never sense the magnet at the gates, thereby causing it to roll in this rpm value.

[bigtallweed]

Some of the older systems will allow you to set your gate % ,the newer diital pro it is inbedded in the programing. If you press your hand timer after you reach set speed you will see how much rpm was held back.

[east tx skier]

@scotchipman, yes, assuming your version of the system is using the stock % and it can't be adjusted (interesting info @bigtallweed). Alternatively, if you have a hand timer, you could just hit the button. When we ski open water, close is good enough. With digital pro, we used to just put it in rpm mode, dial up the baseline, get going, and fine tune based on what our speedos or gps was telling us or what the skier told us he/she wanted (thumbs up/thumbs down).

[Dusty]

With PP Classic, (after the gate factor was 'installed- 1999?)- if the system doesn't "see" a one ball, it wont add that 28% back in. As I recall, hitting the hand timer can trigger the rpm ramp up, to full speed.

[Waternut]

There is a lot of talk about what to do and what not to do but we don't even know what PP system he has. @LkSamm196 Do you have the single line display like perfect pass classic or do you have the Stargazer with the multi-line display?

 

The Stargazer can be wakeboard pro or 3 event. You can reset the system and re-choose if you chose wakeboard pro already.

 

The slalom mode in the Stargazer's wakeboard pro version is not very good if you have a lot of people in the boat or if you are cutting aggressively and quickly which is why people are recommending rpm mode. However, since you can change to 3 event in the Stargazer, it is much better to do that and use the 3 event slalom mode. In 3 event mode, you still get wakeboard mode and it's exactly the same. The difference is you get jump, trick, and the slalom mode is more advanced.

[LkSamm196]

Non-Stargazer version of PP. It is on a 2001 196.

 

Skied in the wind with chop on Saturday and then in the rain on Monday. I have yet to adjust my PP to RPM and calibrate.

 

Ed

[LkSamm196]

Likely will ski in the rain tomorrow morning too!

[east tx skier]

External or internal display, i.e. round display replacing a speedo or a rectangular external gauge?

[DW]

@east tx skier: You are thus indicating that the control algorithm changes when a magnet pulse is triggered for slalom mode only to compensate for the pull force? RPM mode would only control to the specific RPM set point and no other added inputs would be used? Switch would only be responded to in Slalom mode?

[LkSamm196]

Version 6.4

 

Lake was blown out this morning (white caps) no ski.