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Masters Men's Slalom Champ?

webbdawg99

By webbdawg99
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ToddL Grand Master

ToddL

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USAWS/AWSA Rules

"10.03 A Miss

A. It is a miss to ride inside a turn buoy or outside the entrance or exit gate, or to ride over, straddle, or jump a turn buoy, but there is no penalty for grazing a turn or gate buoy with the ski or part of the body.

 

"B. Riding over shall be defined as hitting a turn or gate buoy with the ski so as to move it significantly from its position or temporarily sink it. Hitting a turn or exit gate buoy less severely shall be considered as grazing. (See chart in Appendix)"

 

Rule 10.08 A2:

"In all Classes of tournaments the event judge must continue scoring a run even though he feels the skier missed a gate."

and then this rule displays this graphic:

61ad88e07b5b2bd1bd4fd9b31b60e1.jpg

 

The same graphic appears in the Appendix on page 94:

25e2bac729bcf65cabf902ff32869e.jpg

 

In both cases the graphics suggest that if the skier's front binding is perfectly centered on the right gate ball, then that is a valid gate. Anything to the outside of that is a missed gate.

 

From my interpretation of 10.03A, the text about "ride over, straddle, or jump" is only applicable to turn buoys. What is weird is that in 10.03B riding over is defined further and mentions gate buoys... "Riding over shall be defined as hitting a turn or gate buoy with the ski so as to move it significantly from its position or temporarily sink it."

 

Thus, if I were to take all of this collectively; a maxed out, valid gate is one in which the skier does not move the gate buoy significantly or sink it but can jump it such that the center of the front boot and the center of the buoy are perfectly lined up.

 

Ref: http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/divisions/3event/2013AWSARuleBook.pdf

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klindy Grand Master

klindy

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@tc not saying the rules are fine or that they need to be changed but at record tournaments like the Masters the judges have the ability to review frame by frame and stop the video. Much different decision than watching on real time.

 

My question is which gate ball did he miss? Conceivable that it was the "hard side".

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A_B Grand Master

A_B

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Can you imagine if it took an hour and a half to determine the Super Bowl winner?

The judges need to make a call, that's why there is more than one, and rules on how to interpret disagreement amongst them.

 

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mwetskier Mentor

mwetskier

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if the method for determining the winner of the super bowl was spelled out in the rules available to everyone and if the judges followed those rules carefully like they do in water sking i would think there wouldnt be any law suits
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PurdueSkier Collaborator

PurdueSkier

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Its not an issue of lawsuits or judges doing something wrong. It is an issue of being fan friendly. Based on the announcers and the webcast it appeared that Nate won. I didn't know it was even being reviewed. We either need to change The rules (see other threads) change how the judges make their rulings or change how we provide fans with the information to understand what is happening.
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trs01 Apprentice

trs01

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Just a note for clarification on what happened.

 

First off, I did not see the video at all, so I cannot comment on what it may have looked like.

But...

 

From what the chief judge told me, they had two pieces of video that they reviewed, directly after Nate skied.

 

I did announce Nate was the winner, at first, as I was unaware of the fact that they were reviewing his gates. At that point, we went to commercial, as we were changing into wakeboarding. I left the announcers/judges tower, as after sitting up there for over 4+ hours, I had to take a "meeting" in the little huts that they have on the grounds, and for those of you who cannot tell, my "meeting" means I had to empty my tank. (I am really trying to be PG, so please I hope you get what that means).

 

Anyway, the review went on and they determined from the video that Nate had missed his gates according to the rules, shown in the above post (by ToddL). They had this determined within 5 minutes or so. They did call Nate to the tower to discuss this with him as soon as they made the call. They informed Will just after they spoke with Nate.

 

Wakeboarding/Wakeskating went on as scheduled. They did not have Dano (wakeboard announcer) talk about this, as they wanted myself and Tyler to announce it.

 

I did speak with the judges during wakeboarding, etc. and learned this information at that time. The decision was made to not interrupt wake to disclose this info, and rather wait to disclose this info when skiing started again.

 

So that is the reason that it was not announced right away. You can blame me and my bladder for that one.

 

Again, as for the actual "call" on the gates, I had absolutely nothing to do with that. I was just the messenger, and unfortunately, I delivered the message too late.

 

I will do my best, if this situation ever arises again, and I am in the "messenger" seat to make sure to get all the info out as soon as it is known.

 

Do not let this instance take away from what I believe was an amazing weekend with some of the worlds best athletes putting on an amazing show.

 

The rules we have now are, simply that, the rules. If you do not agree with them, do something about it. I know Gordon Rathbun is working very hard to make changes, and I applaud him for that.

 

Thanks guys, hope the webcast was good. Crowds on site were some of the biggest in years and from the little info I got from Webcast-TV, the viewship was way up too. I hope we can keep this going.

 

Thanks

Tadd Schreiber

tadd.sch@gmail.com

 

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trs01 Apprentice

trs01

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I will clarify one thing. I did hear an announcement for Nate Smith to come to judges tower while I was in my box having my meeting. I cannot confirm that nate ever made it to the judges tower at this time, but I do know that he was called there. I also know Will was told of what happened well before I got back on the mic, because I checked my twitter on my phone during wakeboard and HO had already announced his victory.

 

Just a quick revision/addendum to my previous post.

 

And Jody, no bottle would have held what I had going at that point.

 

Adam: I am not necessarily sorry for having to go to the bathroom (unless you are next in line right after me), but I do understand the points made in above posts that it was crazy for the info to take so long to get out.

That is the reason I thought I should post an explanation. Just wanted to make sure all the info (at least to my knowledge) was out there.

 

TS

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webbdawg99 Mentor

webbdawg99

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HO announcing Asher's victory is what motivated me to start this thread. The picture I attached at the top was immediately following it's posting on Facebook......but was in direct contradiction to any other info available at that time. So you can see why it was confusing!
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liquid d Mentor

liquid d

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Maybe for a cash prize event like this , the instant replay needs to be done by the tower judge immediately if he/she suspects that it's close. With IPADs, cameras, mounted on tower , you could have it zoomed in already. Tower judge doesn't call in his score until confirmed. If there is no call, you know you've got a problem and they are looking at it.

It may sound cumbersome, but you're only looking at the ones that you don't think made it--probably very very few in a tourney.

Raise a yellow flag, or red , or green for me!

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Ed_Johnson Veteran

Ed_Johnson

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@trs01...Tadd, you really do a great job,and a lot of us appreciate all the insight you bring to the show...The Web-Cast was the best quality I have seen yet....Just feel bad for Nate since he clearly did the best skiing for those conditions....Keep up the good work !!!!
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Wish Grand Master

Wish

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@trs01 It was a pleasure listening to you and Tyler from the banks of Robins lake. The music was great and the play by play was superb. The fact that you all announced for 4 hrs is amazing. You, Tyler and your herbal throat spray deserve much of the credit for what makes the Masters so enjoyable. Like all unreasonable things, there's generally a reasonable explanation and if enough time is given, the reasonable comes to light. Thanks for the clarification and thanks for lending your voice to this great sport.
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rfa Community Regular

rfa

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watched you all weekend @TRS01...take this only as "half" a compliment...the other half was the weather in MA (lol)...great job as always! You even pronounced my compatriot junior girl Marta Simoes' name correctly. Good to see you (even if only on screen). Best regards!
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