Wide or Narrow: Which is better?

[Skoot1123]

I would like opinions on the two schools of thought in regards to being "wide" or "narrow" at the buoys. Which is best for the better than average athlete or the average athlete? What are advantages/disadvantages of each? Thanks!

 

Pros for being "wide" to the buoy:

Teaches better handle control - taking the handle out past the buoy line to maintain that tight handle

Provides time to work on position/stack/lean

 

Pros for being "narrow" to the buoy:

Run the "~same line" through the course regardless of rope length

Emphasizes the variations of intensity for lean/pull between turn buoy and first wake

[Horton]

Who the holy heck does not want to be wide? That is wacky!

[ral]

"Narrow skiing" school, also know as "coordinates", was based on Dr. Michaels narrow course...

[SkiJay]

@Skoot1123 No matter what you do, the line through the course changes as the rope gets shorter and the closest you can come to running a similar shaped line through the course on a longer line would be to ski really wide. Narrow long-line skiing is a technique that becomes pretty much irrelevant as the line gets shorter.

[Skoot1123]

For myself - I have never found there to be consistancy with being narrow. It emphasizes a point (ala "coordinates") rather than a technique of holding onto the handle (ie control over the ski/handle etc). If you don't hit that point then you scramble to get back to the point on the other side.

 

One of the skier's I ski with has become very good at skiing this way and has "pushed" me to try the same.

 

@horton - that is why you ski at 39 off and I ski at 22-28 off!

 

@OB - that is why I asked the question.

[Horton]

@skoot1123 get earplugs

[ral]

@Skoot1123, a couple of additional comments:

 

Pros for being "wide" to the buoy:

Teaches better handle control - taking the handle out past the buoy line to maintain that tight handle

Provides time to work on position/stack/lean

 

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. If you don't have good handle control, and are not stacked and with good position, you ain't be wide...

 

Pros for being "narrow" to the buoy:

Run the "~same line" through the course regardless of rope length

Emphasizes the variations of intensity for lean/pull between turn buoy and first wake

 

No way of running the same line @22 off and @35 off+ if you want to run the course. The path of the skier is totally different related to the boat. Cannot comment on the second advantage, do not understand exactly what you mean.

 

As Schnitz showed in some videos in the Dr. Jim era, any skier can do "coordinates" on easy passes. I can do coordinates and ski narrow on my first two passes. Then I have to change the way I ski if I want to make the next pass.

[Horton]

We really should ban all ref to Dr. Jim

[scuppers]

I agree

[thompjs]

I try to stay inside the wakes, it is scary outside.

[bogboy]

The more I ski the course, the more I realize that I have so much to learn, and the less advise I should give. What I can say is thanks to a great group of other skiers for your help and advise, and to allow me to make slow, but appreciated progress. Keeping my lean and handle longer, and skiing more of the lake, thus allowing less slack and smoother passes is working for me.

[Drago]

"Narrow", meaning your line from wake to buoy being directly toward the ball can "work". Usually at your home lake, with the same driver and boat, same amount of gas--bought at the same station--in the tank, same observer, no wind, same rope, same ski, same ambient temp, same water temp, same breakfast, ....

My humble advice--Don't go there.

Oh, dr Jim should never be forgotten. We should remember the past so as not to repeat it.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

The biggest thing you want do is give yourself margin for mistakes and to practice for the next pass. If you practice skiing narrow, you have zero margin and you will be done on the first buoy of the next pass.

 

I try to practice being as wide and early as I possibly can. on every pass.

[MattP]

What the guru said ^

[Chef23]

If you watch the video Mapple made with Gordon Rathburn Mapple says he wants to create as much width and space before the ball as possible. If it works for him it is good enough for me.

[Skoot1123]

Thanks for the comments. I was worried this was going to turn into fodder for every Baller out there! Maybe it is, but it's all good. This is why I love BOS! Pretty clearcut to ski wide. Thanks guys!

[Stevie Boy]

Running narrow does not leave much room for error or adjustment in the course, easy for the boat to give you a spanking.

[A_B]

A really good skier can probably run 35 off on a narrow path, but 38 is going to be problematic due to the need to stop and turn quickly and turning into slack line. And as Bruce said, there is zero tolerance for error.

 

I would also say that loading on your body is much easier coming off the ball and into the wakes under the Wide method, as you are staying ahead of the boat and when using the narrow method, the load can come in the middle of your turn getting pulled forward or turning into lots of slack.

 

If your goal is running lots of passes and conserving energy but not running into very short rope, then narrow might be just fine, but, if you want to run up the rope, you need width and an earlier path so you can control when you turn in relation to the rope tension. On a narrow path, you literally need to turn just as you get there, and that doesn't work too well on very short rope.

[A_B]

I guess if I would relate my thoughts as effort needed to run longer passes to ZO, it would be that I think your can run longer line with an A1 effort (long flat pulls) but I think you need to ski shoreline at a c3 effort, bigger load early. I used to believe in max resistance right behind the boat,,and with PP, I think that worked well. I am not sure that this is still the case with ZO, as it gasses you going into the ball. Maybe it's just me being a full-figured guy, but when I lean on the line, ZO listens.

[jipster43]

@Skoot1123 The problem I have is when I maintain a good stack, keep my elbows pinned to my vest, and hold on to the handle for as long as possible, it is very difficult for me to achieve a narrow path. It's only when I get to my tougher passes and I fail to do one or all of these things that a narrow path becomes available.

[Horton]

@jipsrer43 You are joking? Right?

[Horton]

I am really good at skiing narrow and late. Pretty sure it sucks.

[Drago]

Ok, this is getting weird. Especially the ZO analogies.

[will]

Horton,

doesn't narrow equal late?

[jipster43]

@Horton I was trying to be clever. My attempted point was when you do everything right you tend to be early and wide - not narrow.

[6balls]

Wide at the appropriate speed and in control is the ticket. At 28 off and longer, there are a couple of ways to get wide and get away with it. At shortline to get wide at appropriate speed and in control one must be a technician.

I also do fine making sure I'm wide at the longer passes creates a different feel in my head and sets the tone for the set. When I'm wide I feel like I'm killing it, like it's a joke. This takes the stress down especially in a tournament and helps get my nerves out of it.

[Horton]

@jipster43

Just checking and Yes

[skibug]

Everybody is talking about being wide....you can be wide and late; just pull extra long, be way wide of the buoy line and crank the turn. I think the correct terminology would be "early" instead of wide. You can run a late pass, wide; conversely, you can run a narrow path early. Space at the ball / ahead of the ball is what everyone should be trying to achieve.

[ral]

@Skibug, wide and early...

@Horton, I want to be like you. I am narrow and late a lot as well, but I am not good at it.

[Horton]

@ral you may want to reach sooner and squat back at the wakes. If that does not do it move your bindings as far forward as you can.

 

If you work at it you can ski bad too

[Skoot1123]

@ral - regarding your comments at the top: regarding handle control I was assuming good stack to begin with. (Not saying I have it - but was assumed when I made the comment).

 

Rephrasing the title: Wide or narrow: How not to be narrow.

 

Clearly there is no advantage to being narrow unless I am missing something.

[danbirch]

Get your ski to the ball line, as fast as you can. Some will say that is wide, others will call it narrow.

[Dusty]

If you keep shortening the line, eventually you will be narrow, whether you're early or not... From what I see, at 35 off and shorter, if you find that your eyes are much outside the buoy line, you are already in trouble on that pass- and the rodeo begins...