Ephiphany

[thager]

Thought I would take a quick run tonight since the lake appeared empty in spite of 4 to 5 inch chop caused by SE wind at 7. Started at 34 mph -22. Wasn't paying attention and pulled out a little late, faster and wider than normal. Decided to stay in my lean thru both wakes which shot me out wide and early. Cruised the pass! Usually I work my tail off even at -22. Tried the same thing at -28. Same result! Easy, early, and waiting for the buoys. Then I cruised -32. Yes!!! I had so much time!! It felt as if the ski was on autopilot! -35 was going the same way when I stall turned @ 4 ball and ran just inside 5. Never a good thing when you think about turning. Pooped but happy I called it a night. To think that all this time I have been babying my gates. Paul Chapin had mentioned at my last tourney that I was coming out of my gate lean too early so special thanks for that even though I didn't recall it until after that accidental first pass. Also, thanks to my daughter who is a great driver. Can't wait to try this in good water conditions

 

[jRoe]

If you cant go as hard as you can thru the gates then u can be a good skier..

[thager]

Scary part is I seem to have to relearn this lesson every ski season.

[bogboy]

@thager, I am not in the same universe, but I have found benefits in a later, faster, crisper pull out. Go 2002 s/n.

[fu_man]

Gates by Lucky Lowe. "Everybody thinks you're supposed to go through them....YOU GOTTA COMMIT!" Translation: go balls out...if you miss them so what, just re-calibrate your "go" spot.

[Skoot1123]

I have had some strange gates lately - some where I am ultra slow and what seems at more like a 45 degree angle than a ~50 degree angle and I get a great one ball. Other times I am a little late but just go like crazy (behind boat) and also have great width and space. Both seem to work?? What gives?

[jhughes]

I find when I go really hard through the gates, I get broken over by the boat just off the center of the wake which crushes my width to 1. This doesn't happen as much at 15 and 22 but becomes very apparent at 28. I'm guessing that I'm going too hard, too early? Donno. Still trying to figure this one out.

[Skoot1123]

@jhughes - I'm in the same situation you are. There is such a BIG difference at 28 vs 15. I can run the 15's but with huge change from 15 to 28 I find I have trouble jumping from that 15 to the 28. If I start at 22 then I can go to 28 quite a bit easier! Go figure. Right now, I'm just trying to figure out which gate is most consistent. Then I'll stick with that.

[andjules]

@jhughes & @Skoot1123 I'm also struggling with -28 & -32 gates - how hard, how long and most importantly, how not to get a mess of slack at 1. I'm trying long, smooth pullout (getting up high, but slowly so I'm not gliding forever), turn in from wide, progressive edge - start gently but givin' it coming into the wake, which hopefully creates the pressure for a quick edge change and cross-course (rather than downcourse) speed. Easier said than done. When it's good I'm wide and early and maintain good speed. When it's not good I'm early and narrow and coming in hot (leading to turn-slack-stop-hit-go)

[Skoot1123]

@andjules - your scenario describes me to a T! I'll be on the lake tomorrow - figuring out what one works best. Unrelated but what helped me run my past 28's was focussing on a "straight" back leg.

[andjules]

Yes, @Skoot1123, I am starting to think about the straight back leg, at least through the power zone (I still prefer flexing ankles in the pre-turn/turn).

My epiphany, free skiing (disclaimer: not course-tested) this morning: at the centerline/2nd wake, twist your inside hip up/forward, just a smidge. Amazing what something so subtle does for your edge change (see: http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/Instructional%20Articles/Slalom/SlalomTransitionZone.pdf). Tight line and straight into a good rhythm - we'll see how it works in the course next weekend.

[SkiJay]

It sounds like "pulling too long" may be a key element here. You've got to be releasing the pressure from your cutting edge at least by the lip if the second wake from -28 on in or the boat will pull you narrow and into slack.

[tbrenchley]

I can't preach this enough and it's just as true at 28 as it is at 39 off...you can't continue to pull past the centerline of the boat! You only create down course speed and create no additional width before the buoy. I'm not saying edge change behind the boat just stop your progressive pull and start to come up. Watch any pro skier and they don't pull past the middle of the boat. Nate is by far the best at doing this which is exactly why he is the best skier.

 

One thing you will notice is you have to protect the handle when you do this because if you are used to pulling past the second wake your timing requires you to reach early. Fight this urge and keep both hands on the handle as long as you can and ride the rope up higher on the boat

[andjules]

@SkiJay and @tbrenchley THANKS! good reminder. I'm trying to be mindful of a shorter lean phase, but it's amazing how long you can pull at -22 and then how hard you pay for it at -28.

[SkiJay]

@andjules With practice and athleticism, you can get away with pulling long to run 28s too, but 28 is truly the end of the road. I suspect this is why there are so many skiers stuck for years at 22 and 28 off. To go any deeper, you absolutely have to learn how to do what @tbrenchley is describing above.

 

Don't let the occasional success pulling long at -28 lull you into believing that all you have to do is work harder at the same thing to get -32. It won't work. Since this is the case, you might as well start now working specifically on edge changing earlier with your lower body while maintaining the handle and load with your upper body outbound from the second wake. It's hard to describe well and it takes time to learn, but it's absolutely the key to progressing beyond 28 off.

 

There's a very misleading expression out there that suggests that -32 is just like -28. I disagree. A great -28 can be skied just like a proper -32, but forcing long-line technique into 28 off (pulling long) will never deliver consistent 32s or shorter.

[andjules]

Thanks @SkiJay. I've been meditating on all these things all winter and it's starting to pay off, although admitedly, I haven't been thinking about short pull so much as handle control and gates set-up. Had two sets in the course yesterday (only my 2nd & 3rd in the course this season) and PB'd both sets, ending with an overturn at 5, -32. I also tried - for the first time - -32 @ 32mph and ran it (ugly-but-fairly-easy). But my nemesis is still coming into ball 1 hot w slack. The good thing is that my brain is still working at the gates/ball 1 (it's all instinct by the time I'm approaching 3 or 4). So hopefully focusing on an earlier change + the trailing hip move will clean it up.

[SkiJay]

A picture is worth a thousand words:

 

 

Notice that he is still pulling, and in a great pulling position with his upper body, but he's pulling against centrifugal force as he circles the pylon, not against a cutting edge on his ski, which is well on its way to its other edge as it comes off the second wake ahead of his COM.

[thager]

@Skoot1123 That's what I had been doing. Too slow with little angle to the buoy then dropping in a hole only to have to pull my brains out to get the next buoy and so on. I thought I had a great one ball but in reality I did not. By staying in my gate lean a few feet longer I was able to have maintain enough speed to keep the ski (Razor) moving through the turn. No more old school turn- stop- pull repeat.

[thager]

@bogboy I have been using a very late one hand gate for the last 4-5 years. Worked great when I hit it just right. Switched back to a hybrid two/one hand gate a few weeks ago. Last night firmed it up for me. I think my consistency will be better. Kind of glad as I was beginning to think I was on the wrong ski!

[Skoot1123]

@Thager - you hit it on the head with those two comments. I switched to a two janded gate this year, and it has definitely been an improvement for me.

One other thing that I noticed was that if I waited just a hair longer and changed where I was looking ie: the "go" point - it really helped me get that great one ball. I was actually looking between the gates where the left gate ball would make a straight line to an imaginary ball about 15 feet before the first turn buoy. I'll be playing with that again tomorrow night and give feedback. I love an epiphany!!!!

[ozski]

@Skijay - That is a good photo, you will never get into that position without angle. Back to the gates.

[SkiJay]

We never really left the gates. Although this photo wasn't taken at the gates, the technique still applies to producing a wide early cast out of the gates. And wide and early is just as much the foundation of good rope control at ball one as it is for the next five balls.

[ozski]

Yeah I meant it all starts with building good angle at the start.

[SkiJay]

SO true! @ozski

[thager]

Got to try it again today. Ran right down the line to mid -35 which for me is usually rare.

[Skoot1123]

I was working on the "late" gate yesterday, as I described above. At least in the first set it worked very well, my 28's were way more consistant. Even with that, I think I need to work on being balanced over the ski on the turn in for the gates. I have been working on that, and it has been better, but I need to engrain that in my head again.

 

Who else has had success with this type of gate?

[mwetskier]

you dont know what truly late gates are until you find yourself missing the gate on the down course side and if you havent experimented until you do miss that way then you cant know what the limit is. use up a long set skiing only the gates and 1 ball trying to go later each time until youve found the failure point. by then youll know exactly how late you can go and how much angle you can get into 1 ball which will tell you where you actually want your gate to be.

[Brady]

@skiJay Could you please explain your picture above ^ in greater detail? I would really appreciate the education. Thanks in advance

[SkiJay]

@Brady That's a pretty big topic, but here's the Cole's Notes:

 

Generally speaking, at slower speeds and longer lines, skiers are learning to build speed and get wide, so they have to pull well past the second wake in order to get wide enough. At full speed and around 22 or 28 off and shorter, the geometry of the shorter rope does two main things: 1) it pulls the handle and skier narrower, and 2) it adds an element of "whip" to each crossing.

 

Because the shorter line pulls you narrow, it's important to cast your ski out as wide and early as possible so your turn at the ball isn't too tight and fast because that usually skis you into slack rope. Since your cut has to be shorter, it's fortunate that the whip from the shorter rope also provides a lot of energy that can be harnessed by keeping the handle in tight to your pelvis well past the white water.

 

The picture above is a vivid example of maintaining lean angle and a close handle while at the same time edge changing and casting the ski wide. It's a skill key to successful shortline skiing, but it's hard to learn at lower speeds and long line. So in effect, at around 22 or 28 off, skiers have to relearn what they do after centerline, and changing old habits is hard, so it gets a lot of discussion.

 

Does that help?

[Brady]

@SkiJay Absolutely. Thanks for the clarification

[Ed_Johnson]

[SkiJay]

Good point @Ed_Johnson In addition to my (edited) description above, once you learn how to cut/accelerate efficiently before the centerline then maintain a close handle after the second wake, it's "backward compatible." As demonstrated by Seth above, the technique also works with long lines and slower speeds.

 

It's unfortunate that most skiers learn the course by pulling long in a wrestling stance, then have to relearn how to ski past centerline when the rope starts to shorten. In a perfect world, we'd just learn this shortline technique from the start and look like Seth at 30mph.

[Ed_Johnson]

@SkiJay...My sentiments exactly !!!!

[The_MS]

@OTF just started up slalom skiing last fall. He only skis at -22 or -28@32 or 34. He could care less about ball count and is just working on rhythm and shadowing the balls. By the looks of his skiing, I think he will run -28@34 by years end. I think this is a great way to get it done as long as you can deal with not skiing around orange balls every day.

[Ed_Johnson]

Detailed explanation as to not pulling past the centerline of the Wakes.

[ozski]

It can be harder to recover from a mistake at -22 than -32 in many cases because you can't make up time as easily.

[OTF]

@ms is right.............no really guys he's actually right.