Someone please critique these stillshots

[XR6Hurricane]

I know it's not video, but please tell me what you see, what is good and what is not. I know what I see, but I'm curious what others have to say. This is 30-31 mph @ 15 off. I don't have a good photo of the offside wake crossing; the last photo is the closest thing I have. Thanks.

 

[webbdawg99]

A few things that jump out to me.

 

1. You seem to be riding the back of the ski in the turn and at the finish of the turn

 

2. Shoulders seem to be more closed to the boat than is ideal.

 

3. Your upper body is ahead of your hips as you are approaching the wake. Need to get hips up

 

4. Arm separation. Need to keep the hips up and arms tucked into your vest.

 

I like your vision. In one of the pics you appear to be looking at the next ball. You seem to do a pretty good job of keep your shoulders level....you just need to get your chest facing the boat more

[LeonL]

All that @Webbdawg99 said plus....your (and my) start is so important, so get a good gate approach. What I see that needs to change is you must get the ski rotated from your glide before tensioning the rope, and to do this you have to get more ski in the water at this point. (Photo two)

[GaryWilkinson]

I have a couple of skiers I'm coaching at the same level as you and I'm telling them a few things.

 

1) move closer to the boat, put the line at -22 where the wakes are smaller and closer together and I find at this length, you get a great swing rhythm. Some may disagree with this advice but I've found it to be a great teaching aid to get over the wakes. Which brings me to # 2...

 

2) your position going over the wakes is body forward, flat ski. This is something you have to remedy before you can progress. Read Than Bogan's great article: "Leverage Position" it will change your skiing.

 

It's a vicious circle, flat ski makes you bounce forward and the ski then goes down course with no edge in the water, with your body bouncing forward, your ski goes flatter.

The other vicious circle is thinking " wow it's tough to cut thru those wakes so I should go cautious, going cautious means a flat ski and makes it impossible to cut thru the wakes.

 

So try this a few times: pull out with handle in close, elbows touching your vest at the hips. Gradually swerve in keeping handle low and hips forward with the ski on edge! Slice through the wakes and glide out to the other side. See how you DON'T feel the wakes like before? This new position and technique will give you the confidence to learn the position of leverage, which allows you to slice through the wakes, which gets you more speed and glide out wider which keeps you ahead of the course yadda yadda yadda.

 

1st thing though: read Than's article Leverage Position. He explains it waaay better than I do.

[MISkier]

Picture #1 - Your front leg is too straight and you need your hips up a bit more.

Picture #2 - Your arms are not quite straight (you're pulling in with bent elbows) and front leg still straight.

Picture #3 - Your hips are not up (butt is dropping behind you), arms are separated from your body and should be in close instead. Both are causing your shoulders to be forward and lead you (on a flat ski) through the wake. This will make you narrow and likely cause you to break at the waist at your next turn.

Picture #4 - You are finishing your wake crossing with your arms separated and about to be thrown forward on a flat ski into the turn. This is the culmination of previous issues. Also note how far apart your knees are. They should be together - or at least much closer than they are.

Picture #5 - Same a picture #3. You are not leaning away from the boat and the handle is way too high and away from your body. Get your triceps to your vest and the handle down to your hips.

Picture #6 - Your front leg is too straight and you haven't ridden the edge of the ski into the turn, so you have no edge to ride out of the turn. You are turning on the tail.

Picture #7 - Even though there is not much of you in this picture, it is telling a story. Your butt is very prominently behind you and you appear to be nearly sitting. You need to be leaning away with hips up and handle low. Also, please note the bend in your elbows. Those arms should be straight. Pulling in with your arms and bending your elbows is pulling you up off your edge and flat into the wake. Instead of swinging behind the boat and through the wake on your edge like you should be (on a pendulum), you are helping the boat pull you up off your edge.

 

Many of the other comments here are hitting the same points.

 

You should read Than's article and watch Seth Stisher's mini whips drill. Also, there is a drill that others describe here where you just stay to one side of the wake and pull out as far as you can for the whole length of the course. It helps you to verify your stacked pulling position. Others describe it better than I.

[XR6Hurricane]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. I have read Than's article several times and I understand everything that he and everyone else is saying. My problem seems to be freaking GETTING IT DONE. I always have fun no matter what, but it's frustrating. What is the secret to forcing yourself into a good position?? Is there one simple thing that I can think of, or force myself to do, that will help bring the missing pieces together? From the discussion above and the reading I've done, many of the problems are related. I'm built well for the sport (5'9", 134 lbs, all muscle), but I have ZERO natural talent. I've been on slalom for about 18 years (though not much from 2002 - 2011) and I've always struggled with the posture. After seeing these pics (have very few closeup action shots of me over the years) and reading the replies I really focused on elbows to the vest and hips forward yesterday and today. Every now and then I hit it right and the wake is almost like it's not there. Just have trouble doing it consistently.

 

Got some video today but it's on analog tape so I need to convert it to post it.

 

Thanks again...keep them coming.

 

 

[MISkier]

As @GaryWilkinson said, you are experiencing a vicious circle of form issues that lead to wake anxiety that lead to form issues. Don't ski defensively. Get on edge with good form and aggressively attack that wake and it will be less of a problem. Concentrating on a couple improvements at a time. You say you are starting with straight arms and hips forward. That is a good place to start. Good luck.

[gregy]

@xr6hurricane if a pro or coach comes to your area or if you can take time to go to ski school I'd highly recommend it. If you can do this a few times a year it really helps.

[mateja]

@xr6hurricane It looks like you ski on the Fox River. I ski with a group of people on a public course on the upper river. We are there usually every weekend...stop by anytime.

[XR6Hurricane]

@mateja I was the guy who stopped by in the red and black Rapid Craft with the Merc on it earlier in the season. Haven't made it back up there yet but maybe will before the season is out. Lower river was perfect this morning. The thunder right before sunrise held almost everyone off.

 

Thanks for all the input guys.

[ToddL]

I have found that open water skiers tend to get too wide, put all their effort at the finish of the turn digging in on their back foot (hit boat hard while out wide), getting shot toward the wake while losing angle/leverage/connection/body position, only to bounce flat over the wake in poor form (or to let up completely out of fear due to past bad experiences), and then initiate another lean outbound to get too wide causing slack and down-course drift, and then repeat. I've seen it way too many times.

 

If that skier wants to progress to a course, that skier has to change a few key things:

1) Don't get so wide. In fact, while learning rhythm and body position through the wakes, stay as narrow as you can possibly stand. Maybe not even outside of the boat spray / white wash.

2) Learning slalom is about leaning from white wash to center-line of the boat's path. It is not about a big effort at the end of the turn. Back off those turns and just ride the ski until it is cutting back toward the boat's wake.

3) It is easy to maintain a good "stacked" position when you are gentle at the start of the lean and initiate that motion with your hips not your shoulders. To be gentle at the start of the lean, you have to be gentle at the finish of the turn.

4) Stay leaning gently away from the boat until you are through the second wake. Then, smoothly allow the ski to move under you and outside so that you have initiated a gentle turn.

5) Passively ride that turn until it becomes a gentle lean.

 

When learning how to cross the wakes, you have to really just forget about width and turns. Both will hinder your progress. It is so critical that as you initiate a wake crossing, you ensure that your outside hip has moved under the handle before you start to lean away from the boat's pull. This helps keep your hips "up".

 

The other thing is that you really do not "steer" the ski with your head or shoulders. Rather, it is your hips that matter. You can leave your head and shoulders upright and squared so as to be facing the direction the boat is going the whole time you are skiing. While in this "tall" and "open" position, your hips can drive the ski left or right. (This is what Seth's drills are about.) Just a little hint of tilting your hip in the direction you want to go will do the trick. Eventually, you will be pointing and tilting your hips to steer the ski while the head and shoulders stay up and follow along for the ride.

 

Remember do not get wide. NEVER do a second lean after the second wake. Width will come. It comes from good body position, efficiency, and confidence leaning through the wakes. An efficient and good-positioned skier will be able to get all the width needed to round a buoy by simply leaning in good position from white wash to the boat's center-line. Work on building good body position and confidence. You will start to add width without changing the duration of your lean.

 

One last thing (I know, so much already), @Horton taught me this and it really works -

After you get up on the water, stand as tall and proud as possible. Bend your front ankle just a bit, but push your back leg straight. This will push your whole body forward and up over your front foot. You may fell a little bit too forward, so lean your shoulders back, but keep your hips up over your front foot. This is the position. Your head and shoulders are up over your hips or slightly behind them. Your hips are up, forward, and over your front foot. Your front ankle is just slightly bent.

 

Here's the key... Do this position every single moment you are on your ski: when you are waiting to start cutting, when you are gliding to set down, when you are holding on while the boat is turning around, etc. So, there are two critical times to reset this position: Right when you get up, and right when you stop cutting across the wakes. I understand that while you are cutting across the wakes there are a ton of other things to think about, so focus on them. But every other second on top of your ski, focus on this position. Eventually, it will become a habit and your muscles will build muscle memory. Then, this position will start to stay with you while you are cutting through the wakes.

 

 

[XR6Hurricane]

Thanks @ToddL for all of the information and taking the time to type it. I think you're right on the money about how being too wide makes it harder to get into a good position and keep it there. I can tell that when I do the edge change sooner and stay narrow, I'm able to keep my weight centered easier and the wake crossing isn't so traumatic. Things happen more the way they are supposed to. When I get wider it also leads me to throw more weight on the rear foot to get the speed under control, which eventually causes the ski to flatten out.

 

If "straightening" the rear leg, shouldn't you still allow it to flex when crossing the wake? I'm assuming that "straight" is relative and you don't want to lock the knee.

 

One thing I've found is that the wake crossings tend to go much smoother and things flow better when I occasionally momentarily lose my concentration and daydream. I wind up saying, "Wow, now how exactly did I do that again?" That leads me to believe that at least part of it is wake anxiety as was mentioned above. Maybe it's possible to try too hard also...like walking down stairs. If you think about it too much, you'll kill yourself on them.

[ToddL]

@XR6Hurrican - back leg straight... yeah, it is not locked. But that process of getting into position does work. The goal is to not have your butt behind your shoulders.

 

Go back and look at pics 3, 4, & 5. Draw a line from your front ankle up to your head. Where is your butt? Having bent ankles (and therefore slightly bent knees) is your shock absorbers for the wakes. However, you have to have your front ankle, hips, and head in a line. To do this your front knee is in front of your ankle so that you can have some bend, but still have your hips forward.

http://www.ballofspray.com/images/2013/Connelly-3.jpg

 

 

The one thing you will discover is that you don't need a lot of shock absorbers for the wakes. You want to be taller while you are leaning, with just a hint of front ankle bend and hips in line with the front ankle.

 

Have you heard the knife through butter analogy? Your ski when on edge is like a knife slicing through butter. The wakes are there but they don't disrupt you significantly. Now, imagine coming up out of your lean as you approach the wakes. That is like holding the knife flat against the surface of the butter. It won't slice into it without a lot of effort.

 

This is why staying narrow and leaning on edge through the first wake is a critical skill to build.

 

 

[Horton]

I did not expect to see that image when I opened this thread.

 

For the record. I "try" to have straight legs with the understanding that what you see above is the result. They will never really be literally straight. A straight front leg and a bent back is a disaster. A straighter back leg moves your hips forward.

 

Nearly equal pressure on both feet and pressing them straight gives me the most power and gets my mass centered.

[ToddL]

Sorry @Horton. That pic was one that I had already open and it still makes the point. Legs are never fully locked straight. Still front ankle, hips, handle, and center of shoulders are all in a line. Like you said, there is no way to achieve that position if your front leg is locked or if your back leg is bent a lot.

 

 

[ToddL]

Take a look at this page for more info:

Learning the course

[Horton]

@Toddl I don't mind you the picture. it just sort of surprised me

[MayhamModz]

Make sure to lead with your hips or in other words, shoulders back and elbows locked. If you do that you will slice through the wake.