Perfect pass experts needed!

[Rivvy]

I have a 2003 lxi w 340 hp indmar and 6.5n perfect pass that I'm trying to dial in. I'm an intermediate skier. I have a delimma right now because I can't seem to get my pp setup to my liking. The pull behind my lxi is a bit different than two othe nautiques and a mc. My boat seems to take till the 3rd boat gate to settle into speed. I think may be more about a short approach and my driver over accelerating into the course- wife. The other issue is that it seems to pull harder all the way through my turns. Behind the other boats I will complete my turn, get into the stacked position and the boat accelerates. Mine pulls the whole time making it tough to get into the stacked position before the boat accelerates. I've done the linkage and servo tests- ok. I added a spring to the throttle just to be safe. I also turned the kx setting to "-". That seemed to help a bit. If anyone else has a similar setup I would be interested in what rpm they are running at 34. I run 3285. 36 is 3490. I get good times but was wondering if I have a different pitch prop than the other boats causing a slight different accel. Any other ideas?

[nam1975]

Search the threads, you'll get a lot of help.

Over accelerating does not help. Some have set the baseline and then reduced the rpms by about 30.

I think you can also check each segment.

 

Are you using magnets. They have a no magnet software upgrade.

 

E mail the pp guys they are always helpful.

[skier2788]

Go into your settings and make sure your tach settings are inverted. Malibu is weird about that. Helped the two pn my lake a bunch when we did that.

[MISkier]

One of the issues could be that PP is starved for available throttle and continuously accelerates (even surges) instead of shorter burst of more acceleration. If, during pull-up, the driver accelerates hard and pulls the throttle back, they may take away some of the much-needed "slack" from the servo. Then, when the unit tries to adjust, it doesn't have as much as it wants and must accelerate longer (or continuously). It is much better to throttle up to a particular position (say 3/4 throttle) and leave it there. The closer you can hit a throttle position that is about 2 mph above your target speed, the more latitude the servo will have to work while still settling in quickly for that short setup. Experiment with a couple different throttle up approaches. Ramming the throttle down and pulling back is usually a tough thing to get right without upsetting the dynamics of the servo "slack".

 

Also, on the Malibus, it seems to be a common adjustment (at least on the newer PP units) to run with inverted tachometer.

 

And, I second the option of contacting PP directly (even phone). They truly are great to work with.

[Rivvy]

Thx for quick responses. It is interesting that final throttle position is important. I usually do run it 3/4 throttle. How do I know the tach settings are inverted? I have not seen that option. I have talked to pp guys a lot already. They have got me to where I am today. It still feels different than the other boats I ski. Especially the 2001 mc with essentially the same motor and 1 generation older pp. it isn't just me either. Ski buds agree there is something different.

[Rivvy]

Oh yeah. I am running magnets. And pp says I have the latest updates avail for my system

[Waternut]

It is funny how some boats back down insanely quick while others take forever. Our slalom course boat backs down very quickly and feels soft out of the turn. My boat slams me out of the turns and takes a bit longer to back off speed if you don't help it. Could be drivers and where they set the throttle but I don't know. If your wife can't get the throttle in the right position, maybe you could add a foam block or some kind of throttle stop so she can only go so far.

 

So you added another throttle return spring or swapped springs?

[musclefixer]

I think you will have to try and get the segment times (usually down arrow key) after your pass. to really see what the boat is doing. Take the rpms down 90-100( so in your case 3200) and see what happens. Thought this does seem low for 34mph. Make sure crew weight is not at 0 and maybe try 250lbs as a base. To see if its inverted try to run the start up menu all over again.

[Chef23]

Are you running PP Classic or Stargazer that makes a difference. The other thing I would say is it is important to not overshoot the RPMs at which PP takes over control. Driving PP is different than ZO in that you can't just bury the throttle and let the speed control takeover you need to try to get just to the point where it takes over and not overshoot it.

 

Boats with mechanical throttles tend to settle back more slowly than boats that are drive by wire. I have a 2002 Malibu running Stargazer and it is much more sensitive than my friends 2007 LXi which is drive by wire.

[Rivvy]

I'm running pp classic. No stargazer. I added another spring. I really don't think it's doing anything but I thought I would give it a try. Waternut's description is perfect! I prefer the soft turn. Mine slams me out of the turn. I've tried to watch servo but it is tough to do safetly. It looked like the speed it gave slack was not that fast. I will try to get times next time I'm out. Anybody monkey with nn and kd settings? Manual says they relate to trick mode. Another thread mentioned corrosion on the paddle wheel cable?

[Dusty]

I don't think any issue with the paddle wheel is affecting 34 mph. I have seen one Malibu do exactly what you are describing- Somewhere in the set-up I recall an engine setting- that may also be one of the problems. A friend of mine changed props and it completely changed the character of the pull- same times once calibrated but way better pull. Sorry I can not recall whether he had more or less cup on the prop change. A lot of the posters on here are way more informed than I on stuff like that. One other thought- are you running a switch? Check for broken, or jammed springs, and a freely working micro switch- could you be getting an extra 20% all the time?

[Rivvy]

No switch. Thx again. It does ask me in The system start up whether I have a 6.1 or 8.4 engine. I don't.

[MISkier]

Paddle wheel is not used for slalom. It is only for lower speed (trick). Slalom mode is purely RPM-based. You mentioned a kd setting. I don't about that one, but the Kx setting will have an impact on how strong the boat is out of the turn. I can't remember is 6.5n has the numerical Kx value or the +, ++, etc. type of Kx. If numerical, the higher number equates to stronger. On one older boat, we ran Kx of 80 to try to simulate some of the stronger pull of ZO. So, a lower number on the Kx would be softer.

[Waternut]

Even with the single line displays, I thought you could change the kx value to "-" or "low" to give a softer pull out of the ball. Can't remember which one though. Check your skier and crew weight for sure. If those are off, you could be getting a wild ride. I haven't used a single line display in a while so I can't remember how to set that option but I'm pretty sure it's possible.

[MISkier]

For single line display, you scroll through the menu and it will bring up crew weight, wind adj, and the other settings options to get you Kx and Px. The Kx was a numerical value in 6.0xy. I don't immediately recall when they went to the -, +, ++, etc. settings. It might have been 6.5ng with the multi-line display when that was introduced.

[lff]

Do yourself a favor and upgrade to Stargazer w/ZBox. I have an 03 RLxi(335 Monsoon) and it tamed the beast. Stargazer by itself was a bust for a short setup but adding the ZBox made it settle in quickly, deliver good times at all bouys and not run away at the turn balls.

[Rivvy]

I have recently switched to the kx "-" setting and I think it did help a little. I do have crew and skier weight correct. I am intrigued at iff's comments around stargazer and Xbox. Sounds expensive. If I can't figure it out maybe that is my only option.

[MISkier]

Even with StarGazer and zBox, the throttle up is still critical. You still can't use a ton of throttle and pull back. The pull up must be smooth and throttle to a point just over your target speed.

[Joeprunc]

All good advice. I'm going to go a bit against the grain and say decrease your skier weight by 50lbs, and set your PX value at a higher value (say 30 or 35). And keep your KX at -.

 

(I'm not a PP expert, so I'm not sure if it will work, but might be worth a shot)

[MISkier]

It was my understanding that Px is only active when using a slalom switch and @Rivvy said they are not.

[Waternut]

Stargazer and Zbox would add significant cost at roughly $1000 since you have the older single line display. The only thing you wouldn't have to change is the servo motor and cable. Our older PP module took a dump on us and we were able to find a 6.5ng module with multiline display for $200.

 

As much as I would like Zbox and GPS, there was no way we could justify the extra $800 for it since none of us actually compete in tournaments. It does makes going to different sites with different boats/wakes and different cruise systems a steep learning curve though.

[Rivvy]

Agreed. A few too many greenbacks for a weekend warrior! I'll tweak what I have for awhile.

[ToddL]

So, my ski buddy has an older Response with PP. At 34 MPH, the speed seems to go like this...

A little fast during the pullout & glide

Settles in to almost slow for 1-ball, lean to 2

Starts to ramp back up for lean 2-3

Fast into 3 and into 4

Then settles for 5 and 6.

 

Times overall are within tolerance if you get the throttle in the sweet spot during deep water start to at speed. Still, there is a perceivable variance during the pass as noted above.

 

How should we go about configuring so that the whole pass is more consistent from 1 through 6?

[gregy]

My boat ToddL is talking about. It has stargazer with newest version.

[Waternut]

I'm assuming @toddl and @gregy that it's a mechanical PP and not drive by wire. Is that right?

[gregy]

@waternut yes it is a mechanical system on a 99 Response with 320 monsoon engine. I talked to PP and they told me to check and make sure nothing binding, not much help there.

[Kelvin]

Try to use the "invert tach" setting if it has one. That seemed to help on my buddy's boat.

[Waternut]

Well a slight bind can mean the difference between PP thinking it's applying 100rpms and it actually only applying 20rpms and vice versa. I know it sounds silly but a slight hiccup can really cause problems when you're talking about changes in 1/4 of a second over 16-17 seconds. I mean you're talking about a 1-2% margin of error here.

 

So check for nice smooth curves with no sharp angles in the cable, grease the cord that wraps around the servo knob, shoot some WD-40 or some kind of liquid lube on the steel cable, and make sure your return spring is good and strong. Makes sure the servo is getting the required voltage. Maybe even go to Ace hardware and pick up a new/stronger return spring.

[MISkier]

Some people also remove the plastic cover over the flame arrester to avoid any distortion of the cable's path. In some installations, I have seen the cable route affected by the cover.

[gregy]

@Kelvin PP didn't think inverting the tach would help, I going to try it anyway. Without a skier it runs near perfect times. I have a z-box for it but have not installed it because I wanted to make sure everything was working properly.

[Waternut]

That basically means your set points are good but the way PP makes up for dips in rpm is the problem. Are the times in the first half of the course good or are they a little slow?

 

If you settle into speed and push the throttle up a little, how long does it take to resettle?

[Ed_Obermeier]

Malibu's seem especially to need the tach signal switched to Inverted, no idea why but that seem to work for a lot of Malibu owners.

 

I've posted here numerous times over the years my 4-step recipe for getting rid of the surging in SG. Not everyone agrees with my methodology but I've gotten a ton of feedback from Ballers who've tried it and almost to a person have had their problems fixed. I won't post it all again to avoid starting another argument but if you'd like the info message me and I'll be happy to send it to you.

 

Ed

[colo_skier]

Also look at my thread on what I had to adjust in stargazer to get my 2007 to "feel" correct. I know its a DBW but it at least lets you know what things I had to adjust to smooth out the whole response of the boat. It applied to Classic, Stagazer and z-box. Somebody commented that they didn't appear to have the same tables that I adjusted so the thread may not be any use.

 

[GregHind]

If setting inverted tach does not fix pp classic for you and you have a smooth linkage with no cable binding and a good return spring then the next step is the servo phase test. Go to http://perfectpass.com/?q=videos

 

However what you need to do is slightly different to what they say. Have your boat in the water, engine running. Engine idling, out of gear and no other electrical items running. With the engine running but out of gear do the servo phase test. This is the first half of the "servo phase test" video. DO NOT do the linkage test with the engine running. Please post the results of the electrical test here and I'll help you work it out.

 

You should also do a linkage test but do that bit with the engine OFF and the throttle exactly as they say in the video. I.e. watch it again from the beginning and do it exactly as they say.

 

However I need the voltages with the engine running to help you.

 

Greg

[Rivvy]

How do you set inverted tach?

[GregHind]

Should be under engine settings and clearly detailed in your manual or download manual from perfectpass.com