Beginner tricks

[doonez]

Hey all,

I have recently got a trick ski (quantum with Wiley) and have ridden it for a few sets but I am struggling with what to do next. I have managed a few side slides (been backwards once I think) and am jumping wake to wake at 14m 28kmph. What do I do now? (There are no other trick skiers near us) I have no real idea of the correct body position etc. and can't find any coaching on the internet. Any tips!? Drills etc etc... Thanks!

[addkerr]

Joel wing has an instructional dvd. May be worth a look.

[gregy]

The Joel Wing video is more advanced. @Doonez I'm just a couple of tricks ahead of you. The proper trick position is pretty similar to slalom. Stacked with handle low. As slalom you don't want to be bent at the waist. Knees and ankles flexed, weight on the ball of front foot. Keep riding and getting comfortable. I was working on basic surface turns like front to back and same on wake tricks. Hopefully some real trickers can add more here.

[MrJones]

Cory Pickos did one years ago. You might find it with a little looking. (It will be on VHS BTW)

[Wish]

I to would like a good beginners trick instructional vid. Wayyyy back when I used to have Cory Ps beginner and andvances VHS tapes. The have sence vanished. Does he still sell them in DVD form? Anyone have these just laying around that theyed like to get rid of? :-)

[buski]

I picked up one of these super cheap used on amazon. It's pretty good especially since there's a void of trick info around otherwise if you don't have anybody to learn from.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0960649603/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&sr=8-1&qid=1382703825

[eleeski]

@doonez and @gregy Welcome to trick skiing!

 

First, check the setup. 28k (17 - 18mph) is about right on speed (if you slip out you're too fast, if you catch edges you're too slow, if you do both equally you're just right). 14m might be a bit short. 16m is too long so find a 1m section. You want the table to be three sidesliding skis wide. With all the inserts in a Quantum (modern skis rock!), it's likely that the binding is right - ankle bone near the center of the ski and the back foot at a 45 degree angle.

 

If you're double jumping the wake, you are doing great! Keep doing that - a lot. Slalom a lot on the trick ski too. Anything to get you comfortable on the ski and have fun.

 

A sideslide teaches a lot of control. Most people start with too much weight on the back foot. ANY weight on the back foot is too much. To get onto the front foot you give a little pull to gain on the boat, shift your weight level then turn. Pull Level Turn - remember that. Be decisive but don't throw the turn. Get uncomfortably all the way around to 90 and come back to front. You only have to hold it for 2m - .25 seconds. That's almost faster than you can think so if you don't race back, the trick will score. Reverse is the same thing. Pull Level Turn. You are doing half a back so it is a significant turn. Dropping the back hand can help a sideslide - it's a fun exercise even if you own the trick. S, R.

 

The back is just an overturned sideslide. If RFF hold on with both hands and Pull Level Turn clockwise. Keep your core tight and your hands in as the ski will catch a bit as it hits the back position. Pull yourself immediately back to front - you do not have to hold the position. Do that a few (hundred) times until it is comfortable then start lingering in the back position - don't hurry to front. Eventually you will figure out the transition to riding backwards and the position will be stable and you will be able to hold it indefinitely. This is the backwrap B.

 

Reverse back is a different animal. It is half an O. Practice passing the handle on dry land. Pull Level Turn and let go with the left hand (RFF) and keep the right elbow high and bent. Turn the handle like someone is twisting your arm high in your back. As soon as you feel the ski drop into the back position, pull yourself back to front. Again don't hold it. Do make sure to turn the handle all the way over and feel for the back edge. RB.

 

Once comfortable with this, Pull Level Turn and pass the handle to the left hand and pull yourself to front all the way around 360 for an O. Keep those hands in and the weight off your back foot.

 

Last trick for today, when the backwrap is solid enough to hold it, cut from the middle of the wake to the passenger wake (RFF). In this one instance, it is OK to put just a little bit of weight on the back foot to set the edge more decisively. Once the front foot gets to the wake, pull yourself to front in the air. WF! Cut back in with the weight on your front foot, wait until the foot is well across the crest of the wake and turn back in the air. WB! Pop front - don't stick it until it is solid.

 

Real coaching is the best. Get some as often as you can. Kirk is a great coach and he has gotten most of his UCLA team learning these from scratch in a few sessions. Without the coach's feedback it will take a bit longer to learn but it is possible. Make sure you have fun with it!

 

Eric

[Wish]

Eric, when will you be coming out with an instructional video on YouTube?

[eleeski]

Interesting idea...

[Wish]

I will wait patiently...

[doonez]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write all that out @eleeski that's just what I need!

[ToddL]

I have been tricking since the early 90's and still consider myself a beginning tricker! But, it is fun and helps fill time between slalom sets at tournaments. ;-)

 

Honestly, the most important things for a beginner are:

1) eyes/head up always - look down fall down, start to "feel" the water. Look at the pylon or horizon at all times, especially while rotating to the back position. Same for wake tricks - you have to feel the crest of the wake. Practice this now, it will pay off later.

 

2) weight on the front foot - slalom skiers still have weight on their back foot. Trickers should not. Think about this... Toe tricks, there is zero back foot weight and the ski still works. The toe strap in the back is really just a place to put your your back foot while you make your front leg burn from doing all the work. As a beginning tricker if your front leg quads aren't tired at the end of a trick ride, then you aren't doing it right. Also, you want to support your weight on the ball of your front foot. So, if you feel a lot of heal pressure, you aren't doing it right. Heck, your front foot arch should be barking at you after a long set.

 

3) front ankle bent & shoulders up - Bending the front ankle is the key to getting your weight forward (and lower) on the ski. Keep your shoulders stacked over your hips always. Ankle bend does all the work. The front knee will bend in relation to the ankle, so just focus on the ankle.

 

4) handle low, elbows in - The lower the pull from the boat, the more balanced you will be. Try to keep the handle near your waistline during all maneuvers.

 

5) smooth and fluid movements on the handle - the pulling on the rope to initiate the tricks should be fluid, not hard jerking. For beginning tricks you don't want to generate a bunch of slack, because the recoil will likely jerk you out of position and cause a fall.

 

6) the handle initiates the rotation, not head/shoulders - In fact, the rotation should initiate from the bottom up. Handle initiates, the ski responds, then the hips follow, then shoulders, and lastly the head. Look at the pylon until your shoulders force your eyes lose the pylon and scan the horizon to the back position. The shoulders also should stay level throughout the rotation.

 

That's the core basics.

 

Oh, and running the slalom course on a trick is a blast. It really challenges you to stay stacked and centered during the turn whilc maintaining edge engagement. It also forces you to get wide early and maintain the handle while on an inside edge with pressure on the forward part of the ski... All good stuff to do while on a slalom ski too. ;-)

[eleeski]

@ToddL I love 1,2,3 regarding stance on the ski.

 

But I'm not sure about 4,5,6. I want the handle to be as comfortable as possible - not down. Certainly you want to pass the handle as high across your back as comfortable when doing a handle pass O (or WO, 5, etc). Try it on dry land - turn to back and see how much more movement and control you have with the handle high on your back vs low on your butt. Keep that handle up while passing it or riding blind back!

 

Advanced styles now have less time on the rope and more time riding on slack rope. While jerky pulls are never good, really hard pulls are needed for many tricks. I do have beginners jerk the rope to slack as an exercise. "Don't lean on the rope - think surfing style more" is one of my common comments even to beginners.

You are on track with the smooth handle advice. Remember that that rope will always be 15m from the boat no matter what you do - might as well not waste energy trying to put it somewhere else. That tip really comes in handy for BB, WBB and TBB (advanced tricks!).

 

Finally, only RB is truly driven by the handle (and RTB - if that toe is pointing down at the water you will be all the way around). For everything else, I lead with my hips or ski - not my eyes. The handle follows my hip or ski rotation. Late handle passes can improve many tricks (O, WO - do it wrap in?, etc). When I think about following the handle I can get off form easier. Putting virtual eyes in my hips lets everything else follow. I kind of wish I was capable of putting virtual eyes on my ski - I imagine Cory does that with his toes.

 

Todd, you are saying similar things to what I coach but with a slightly different focus. The different perspective can be good. Even if it is different from my personal coaching. The important thing is what gets through to the skier to improve their skiing. For the skiers trying to get coaching, don't take anything you are told as gospel. Perhaps we didn't explain it right. perhaps you misunderstood, perhaps we were wrong. Some of my biggest breakthroughs have come when I've done the exact opposite of the coaching! The important thing is to try what you hear, think about what happens and apply what works.

 

Oh, and have fun doing it!

 

Eric

 

 

[ToddL]

@eleeski - Thanks man. 4, 5, & 6 to me apply to very early beginners. 4 & 5 start to no longer apply on many intermediate tricks. 6 addresses a typical beginner problem of initiating a back or 360 by throwing the head and shoulders around and often downward away from the boat, and thus losing proper stack position while rotating. That typical mistake is so pervasive in my opinion that I included it in my list. Sort of like a preemptive corrective action...

 

Totally agree that different words speak to different skiers. All good coaches have about 4-5 different ways to convey the same physical change desired in the student. When I see a students finally do something correctly, I often ask students what they thought about that time. They sometimes echo the words I said, but sometimes they say something new. So, I start using their words to help them retain the new skill.

[gsm_peter]

@eleeski‌ and @ToddL‌

Thanks! This is what I have been looking for.

 

Soon 10 runs on my trick ski.

I can get up most starts ;-)

LFF

For me it is easier to make an onside side slide just outside of left side of the wake.

Last run I skied SS for type 30 seconds. It was really fun just worked on the feeling to go back slide up the wake and front slide pulling out a bit.

Off side SS was a bit more difficult.

If I get a last run this season I will try a 180 to backwards.

When is a 90 approved?

Is it 90 degrees compared to the rope or the boat path? Or???

 

My goal is to make 90, 180 and 360 both directions next season. Is that a resonable goal when I manage the two 90 already?

What score will that give?

 

Is there any instructual trick videos you can recommend?

 

I will prepare a 15m rope.

Will a standard slalom rope be ok?

 

Plan to get a wake board handle, 15'' wide.

A 4k tricker told me that a wide handle is easier for standard tricks.

 

Have a nice day!

Peter

 

 

 

[jhughes]

Side slides both ways, backs and fronts both ways, 360s both ways (SS,RSS,B,F,RB,RF,O,RO) is basically my trick run right now, 500 points, and it took more than one season to achieve for sure. A good reverse side slide is definitely a tough one to learn as a beginner. Getting any more than this, next things being wake backs and fronts for me, has proven to require a lot more time on the trick ski which quite frankly I just haven't put in. So much falling, so many get-ups, repeat, repeat, repeat. It's tough.

[BrennanKMN]

This is an awesome thread. I wish I saw this earlier!

 

Getting the time in for tricking is hard when you have a boat crew that wants to ski. There is a lot of time spent sitting in the water waiting for the boat to come back around and people get tired of that. Unlike slalom I can almost never recover from a mistake on my trick ski. I am down for the count every time.

[nzwaterski]

This is an awesome thread. I'm going to b be am awesome tricker by the end of our summer here

[gsm_peter]

@jhughes‌

Thanks for the summary.

 

Is this correct interpretation of the trick abbreviations?

 

SS= Side Slide onside. 0-90-0 degrees

RSS = Side Slide offside. 0-90-0

B= Back onside 0-180

F= Return onside 180-0

RB= Back offside 0-180

RF= Return offside 180-0

O= Full rotation onside 0-360(=0)

RO= Full rotation offside 0-360(=0)

 

 

Still hope my goal will be realistic (touch wood) since I have not fell so many times making the SS and RSS.

 

 

 

[jhughes]

@gsm_peter‌ yup! The backs you can either do in a full position where your body and ski are backward or in a "wrap" position where your body is still facing forward but your ski and legs are in the backward position. The back "wrap" is a great trick to learn on the "onside" but incredibly difficult in the reverse position, even on dry land.

[gsm_peter]

@jhughes‌

 

Thanks again

 

Is there two separate points for first turning backwards (one trick) and then return to going FW (another trick)?

B= Back onside 0-180

F= Return onside 180-0

 

or is there one point for the full trick 0-180-0?

 

Is it the rope or boat path that is the reference point 0 degrees?

 

Brgds

 

Peter

 

 

[6balls]

Is a barefoot boom and/or short rope from said boom helpful at all for learning some of this stuff?

[eleeski]

We use the boom a lot with learning tricks. Sideslides are very straightforward on the boom. Get used to that slippery feeling. Easy backwrap is another trick really helped by the boom. Get comfortable to where you don't need the boom for balance - it's just pulling you along. Play with the position, cut a bit, bend and straighten your knees. Getting comfortable on the ski in backwrap behind the boom will translate very well to a rope.

 

The last trick we use the boom for is reverse backwrap. This is a twisty awkward position. Getting the feel of the ski is easier on the boom. The rope handling will follow if the ski is solid.

 

Mix a lot of full length rope time with this training tool. Once those tricks are solid, the boom doesn't help any more.

 

Have fun!

 

Eric

[klindy]

@gsm_peter‌ this may not be a lot of help but look at page 59 of the PDF at this link (iwsf rule book). It's a list of all the valid tricks and associated point values - http://www.iwsf.com/rules/2014/World%20rules%202014.pdf

 

 

[gsm_peter]

@klindy‌

 

Thanks. Now I have the total rule book stored as well :D

I have seen the trick list points but it does unfortunately not answer the questions?

Hope some Baller trick fellows will write more.

 

[klindy]

@gsm_peter‌ actually if you look at the table you'll see pts listed for the FB Front to Back 180 AND a separate line for the BF Back to Front. So each is a separate trick and not a combination.

 

The reference is essentially the boat path but that gets warped somewhat if the skier is headed across the wakes. What the judges are looking for is that the ski turned 180 degrees from the basic path of the ski which in many cases is also the basic boat path.

[david_ski]

This was a great thread for a trick newbe  

Just a month ago was my first attempt on the trick ski  I am comfortable behind the boat and doing wake crossings. I am working on the SS. I have used the boom down the lake, and on the rope coming back. The boom has been a good tool to work on learning the balance position when the ski gets slippery in the 90 deg position.