HELIX

[skidawg]

I have had 3 (cold air/water) rides on the Helix! I should be able to get it dialed in by the end of next week,80 degree temps on the horizon! Initial impression-very fast, breakneck turns on on side (on side is my Achilles typically) once I get her dialed I will try to give a full report. I am very excited about this ski. Potential is big!

[ozski]

@skidawg From day one on the Helix I've really liked the 2 / 4 off side turn which is my own personal demon. I need to work it out on my 1 / 3 side, agreed the potential is big.

[ALPJr]

Any more baller comments on this ski. I'm liking what I hear and see so far. Anyone using double T-Factor bindings with the Helix.

[manos]

@ALPJr, no but I did get my 66 Helix demo from Paul on Saturday. Put fin back to stock before the ride and caught hell from the other club members for doing so. Out of the box is measured, 2.514 D, 6.94 L and .78 from tail (slot calipers). I'm 155 lbs and 5'6" 34 mph (never made 35 off). Coming off a 9960 Goode with power shell double boots. Velcro and all I strapped it on and went skiing today. 22, 22, 28, 28, 28 and.... 32. Made them all. Only tried 32 once last week and barely got 2.5. Day one and I'm already ahead. This may have been an expensive set!

 

Commets: Similar in speed/angle across the wakes. Forgiving in the turn, ski responds when you need it to. ski carries more speed and for me the big improvement is a much faster exit and tighter radius. Front foot pressure doesn't mean the ski stops which makes turn into the gates and 2 4 side much more consistent (LFF). Much less of a hit on the body if / when you run the pass late. Bottom line, easier ski to ski on vs the Goode 9960. Of course that ski is 3-4 yrs old now....

[ral]

I felt more like than @skidawg‌ than like @ozski, onside was great and offside was better in the Quest. WIll try shallower to see how it changes.

[ozski]

Ral, I'm not normal what can I say.. My onside is working quite well but the improvement is mostly on my off side. I've also dropped to a 66 from 67 (Quest) which may be a factor. A couple of open water sessions on the weekend and I'm feeling a lot more at home on it for sure. Still learning where to stand on it to make it work the best in the turns, if you leave it alone it just seems to keep coming around and making angle off the ball.

[Booze]

I got a 67 and 68 to demo. After one set on 67 and then 68, stuck with the 68. I felt it turned better than the 67....go figure. On the 68 out of the box went up the line to 5@35 with a healthy tailwind. That's good for me right now. I feel it's fast and easy to ride. Off-side is fairly automatic, it never came close to stalling and any hitches are very minimal. I could turn closer to the ball with binding back a notch (30.25). The on-side is a bit perplexing though. I can stay on the tail moreso and bring the ski around (when I want to) no problem, but when trying to focus on maintaining tip pressure (I'm trying to use the whole ski to turn and maintaining speed), it does a quick snappy turn that I'm having trouble adjusting to.

So I'm debating trying to tweak the ski to suit me or focus on changing my habits at 2-4 of jamming the tail of the ski around and subsequntly loosing precious speed/momentum. (34mph and getting old! LOL)

[SkiJay]

@scotchipman‌ What do you want to improve with the off-side turns?

[The_MS]

@Mrs_Ms is at

2.493

6.949 tips

.751 flat

Wing 7

Bindings at 29.25

 

It is the best that she has felt so far on her 65

[6balls]

@scotchipman had that issue on one of my former D3's...loved it and the on-side was money but offside turn was lacking finish. Can't remember why I was in contact with Schnitz at the time but he had me go shallower on rear of fin and that was all it took. Off-side tightened up and onside was still automatic. Similar move may help depending on how shallow you are at present.

[SkiJay]

@scotchipman‌ you're trying all the right stuff to make it turn easy, so two thoughts come to mind: how different the two designs are, and ironically, your setup may be too turn-sensitive.

 

The XT and the Helix are quite different designs. The Helix is a speed ski. It's has less corner-aiding rocker and more smear-restricting tail area than the XT. The XT has asymmetric rocker which may have temporarily "spoiled" you a bit on your offside. And the Helix is happy if you use the entire length of the ski, while with the XT, engaging tip beyond a few inches ahead of the front binder is a pretty sensitive deal. Both work best if you work the front of the ski, but the Helix is more forgiving if you overdo it, which brings me to my second thought.

 

I found the setup you are on to be too turn-sensitive, meaning it was too easy to engage too much tip, and when I got too much tip, it would jam or the tail would wash out. To avoid this, I became leery of using the front of the ski, then it wouldn't turn. When I later went back to stock, I could work the front of the ski more the way it needed. Since then, I've tried even shorter and deeper and now I'm experimenting with short, less DFT, and shallower, and I'm skiing the best I ever have.

 

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but my experience with the Helix has been to get it to turn like mad, you have to work the front of it aggressively. And to do that, it needs a setup that provides lots of tip feedback by providing resistance to going to far. A super-sensitive setup like forward and shallow (remember that moving the fin forward moves the leading edge of the fin forward on the ski much like adding length) requires way more finesse and consistency than I'll every have.

 

I've found that making it harder to engage too much tip is both more consistent and confidence inspiring. So setting up my Helix to be less easy to turn has given me a ski that now turns tight, consistent, dependable, hard-carving turns on both sides, so long as I stay ahead of it. We all ski differently, but if "A" isn't working, try "B".

[kstateskier]

@scotchipman‌ are you on a 66?

 

[kstateskier]

Thanks I was going to try your numbers today.

[SkiJay]

@scotchipman‌ I can understand how you arrived at your current setup. The number that jumps off the page at me, however, is your depth setting--it's really shallow. Your total fin area is smaller than the smallest I could ski on with this ski, and to compound the effects of this, it's pretty far forward too. The tail of your ski must be washing out after the ball like a car with two flat tires on the back!

 

The interesting thing about excessive smear is it feels like tip-bite, but the problem is actually at the other end of the ski. I often misdiagnose it until I review the video. I'll bet your level of trust in the ski is pretty low right after the ball right now, like you just don't know what to expect. It's forcing you to be too dainty, and it's hard to turn aggressively when walking on egg shells. Try: 6.895 tips, 2.508, 769slot, 8° and trust the front of the ski to be ridden harder than usual in the turn. It should feel like it's on rails after your current setup. Give it a couple of sets to settle in then let me know what you think.

[SkiJay]

@scotchipman‌ The setup @Mrs_MS is using is an excellent example of a long/shallow setup for this ski. It's a very low effort setup with easy tip engagement and an easy quick roll-rate. But the key to its success is the total fin area is greater than stock by nearly as much as yours is less than stock, and with a long/shallow setup, you need to control tail smear with either more (correction) less DFT or more fin area.

 

Everyone skis differently, so it depends on your style which of these would work best. The @Mrs_MS setup favors a precise consistent balanced approach. The setup I outlined above would favor a more aggressive dramatic weight-forward approach to the course. Since you are coming off of a relatively high effort ski, the XT, I thought you'd like the latter. Food for thought . . . .

[kreipe]

What do all of you Quest / Helix users think the Helix does better?

[kstateskier]

I've never ridden the Quest. Matter of fact this Helix is my first D3 ski ever. After a dozen HO's, a few Radars, an Obrien SS and a Razor.

[ral]

@kreipe, none is better than the other. Helix is faster with less overall effort. Quest is stable, feels like on a rail. Helix is better for oldies speed (34), Quest is I guess better for deep shortline 36.

[kstateskier]

@SkiJay‌ I went with 6.980, 2.488, and .750 numbers. Wing at 7 at the tip engaged easily. Ski now turns fairly well. I ran several stupid easy 28offs. Will chop to 32 tomorrow.

 

This ski is starting to impress me.

[kstateskier]

@scotchipman‌ I'll leave it up to @SkiJay‌ to make fin recommendations but I'm curious to see how the ski turns as the line gets shorter. We've got some weather comin in so I'm not sure if I'll get another few sets on this thing tonight or tomorrow but my plan is to shorten more than I normally would early in the season.

[SkiJay]

Hi @scotchipman‌. Glad to hear there is progress. Without video, it's impossible to tell if there is something going on with the setup when you get to -35 and shorter, or if you are just finding it harder to stay ahead of the ski out of the turn as the line shortens and there's not as much rope tension to work with for an instant longer. This ski caries more speed out of the turn than my XT did and I have to be consciously aware of moving my COM inbound off the ball at -35 or it leaves me behind, killing the finish as the tip unweights.

 

One thing is certain, you will be disappointed if your goal is to make any speed ski turn like the king of turns--Nano One. There are fundamental compromises made between flat fast skis and rockered turny skis, so you have to accept the bad with the good once you decide how you like your poison. As fast skis go, at least the Helix has a decent amount of rocker.

 

Another option is to go to the R-60 RockerBlock which will add more rocker. I've been experimenting with one for the past week now and not surprisingly, it is delivering tighter carved turns than the stock R-30. I want to go back to the R-30 to see how close I can get it to turn like this before reporting on what I've learned, but this probably isn't an option during your demo period anyway. You're probably stuck with having to work the tip farther inbound than you are used to.

 

At least it sounds like you are in the ball park now. You can try .005" more DFT to get an easier finish, and maybe even 9° on the wing to help keep the ski behind you at -35. But if you go any longer with DFT trying to emulate the XT, you'll probably start getting too much tail smear, and snap wheelies out of the off-side balls.

 

If you really want a ski that turns on a dime, maybe you'll just have to reconcile with the workouts you were getting on the XT =)

[ozski]

My current numbers 66 Helix @‌ 34 MPH - R30 stock.

 

6.938 L

.735 DFT

250 D

Wing 7

 

The Helix is working well on both sides for me, I just don't feel like i need to fiddle with it. Had a set on it today after a week or more resting up, just kept thinking how good it turns when I need it to.

[kstateskier]

@ozski‌ if its working stick with it. I think I'm sticking with where I'm at for awhile. I've got a few days left of my demo. Last night I made one small tweak and changed my wing from 7 to 8, but the ski didn't carry through the turn like it was so I put it back and then breezed through 28 and took some cracks at green. Only difference between our numbers looks to be DFT.

 

6.980, 2.488, and .750 numbers. Wing at 7

[SkiJay]

Well, you can't say you haven't given the Helix a solid try @scotchipman‌! I think any fast ski is going to require a little technique adjusting after the Nano though. Normally, I think it's wiser to find a ski that suits your technique than to change decent technique to accommodate a ski--unless you have a good reason to change.

 

I wanted a faster, lower effort ski that rode with more of the ski in the water than the Nanos, so I'm committed to changing my technique to accommodate. I settled on the Helix because it still has a little more rocker than many of the other fast skis, and it offers even more rocker through their optional RockerBlocks. I found it to be the most forgiving and easy to turn of the faster skis I tried.

 

It sounds like you are going to have some fun though. I love testing skis!

 

 

[kstateskier]

The Helix sure does come alive the shorter the rope gets. Good skiing @scotchipman‌

[kstateskier]

@scotchipman‌ have you tried changing your wing to 7? The only reason I say that is the last two 35s it looks to me like your ski is biting awfully hard on the turn where you are popping the handle. I was pleased with my wing at 7, then changed it to 8 and saw the same thing happen to me - I moved the wing back to 7 and have not experienced it since.

 

However my settings are a touch longer fin, a touch shorter depth and the same DFT.

[SkiJay]

Beautiful Scott! And a big sigh of relief for having video to work from . . .

We shouldn't have even been talking about adjustments without video.

 

Having watched your skiing, I'd have to say your numbers are pretty darn close right where they are--which is better than most. If anything, total fin area is a bit small. It's close enough to not be a factor until you jump on the tip, which you weren't doing until -35, then the tail over-smears, especially on the off-side. If you want to give the tail a bit more traction, I'd try FL=6.895, FD=2.512 (more on depth than length because your tip engagement is pretty aggressive and it's good to have less FL than stock for that). And that's it!

 

It looks like the ski is working nicely right where you have things, and that most of the over-turning and wheelies that showed up at -35 happened when you got a bit behind the ski in the pre-turn, making tip engagement all the more sudden at the ball. When you are staying ahead of the ski, it looks like you own 35 despite the high wind! Very nice.

 

P.S. Is that @Brady at the wheel?!

[jipster43]

What a coup it would be if @scotchipman switched to D3! Those passes looked SMOOVE!

[SkiJay]

They look pretty nice to me too @jipster43‌, but I think @scotchipman‌ is still struggling to detox from the orange and black Kool Aid!

[Brady]

@SkiJay, Had I not been driving, he would have barely made 32! :) I can swerve and shoot with the best of them. :)

[Texas6]

Awesome skiing Scott! You're very quiet on the ski and I bet that shows in your consistency. Is that @Brady's new MC?

[wart]

First, this thread is very helpful.

 

Just started my Helix demo today.

 

Since I haven't used a wing for six or seven years...

which way are you all using your wing?

Screws closest / wing furthest from the bottom ski?

OR

Screws furthest / wing closest to the bottom of the ski?

 

Anyway, the ski is really fast. Couple of times I thought I was going to be on the other shoreline before I changed edges. : )

 

For my 66”, I think I set the fin.

6.945

2.478

.758

7 degrees

291/4”

I say think because I'm not a fin adjustor… and I get a different reading every time I check.

Anyway, my only issue is a few of my off-side turns the ski just about stopped on hook-up and crunched me on the ski. I suppose this more user error than set up.

 

 

 

[SkiJay]

Hey @wart! Pretty much everyone now uses the wing farther away from the ski than the screws. The setup you're using will turn super easy, too easy for some, me included. If it's crushing you on your off-side, you'll probably like the factory settings better:

6.910 (tips)

2.505

.740 (flat)

[markchilcutt]

Question for a friend demoing a 67 helix? What settings are working including binding placement?

[SkiJay]

@markchilcutt‌ If your friend likes a quick-turning sensitive setup:

 

FL= 6.955 tips

FD = 2.470

DFT = .755 head

Wg = 7°

Bf = 29.75

 

If the tip tends to grab like that, then here's a nice solid setup that is closer to stock:

 

FL= 6.918 tips

FD = 2.512

DFT = .740 head

Wg = 7°

Bf = 29.75

[Chef23]

Are people running the bindings a little back from what is on D3's website?

[ozski]

@Chef23‌ Yes so I am hearing

[musclefixer]

love my new Helix. coming off a nano XT I feel the Helix turns better for me and a faster ski in general from ball to wake, while holding angle. I Left the fin at stock ( factory setting) and bindings just slightly ahead of 29.5, but depends on how you measure, Tape parallel to ski or tape along the side of the ski to tail. Also I have powershells, so depends how you set up your rear heel. Great ski overall, Well done D3 . It feels like a Fusion but better.

[Chef23]

I have two sets on a 68" Helix now. Neither one have been in good conditions but I was struggling to run a pass on a Nano 1 which was new to me and I feel like myself again on the Helix. I am running stock settings from the website except the binding is at 30.25 instead of 30.5. It is still early season for me because I am recovering from an injured shoulder but I ran a 32/22 and 5 34/22s in a strong head tail only missing the first tail wind 34 because I mucked up the gate.

 

I think it is going to be a keeper for me. At 6' and about 225 I think the N1 is just too small for me. I never felt comfortable forward and back on it and it didn't carry out for me. Admittedly I am about 15 pounds heavier than I want right now but at 210 the 68 Helix should work well.

[kstateskier]

Last week I cheated on my Helix demo for a few sets with an A3. My intent was to demo a Vapor but Perf was without so I rode the A3 instead. I immediately bought the Helix after 2 sets on the A3.

 

Looking fwd to the rest of this season on the Helix! I've updated my fin settings a touch, will post later.

[Chef23]

I have three sets in on the Helix today and cut to 28 for the first time. I didn't make any which shows I am rusty but the ski feels good. It did bite a little on my offside at 28 off which disrupted the pass but I am liking the ski. The conditions were still crappy with a strong head tail.

 

I am off the water until Monday at a lacrosse tournament for my son but Monday starts at Coble's. Hopefully I got enough passes in this week to get something out of next week. I should have a good feel for the ski by then. I am going to bring the Helix and leave the N1 at home (and probably put it up for sale when I get back).

[Chef23]

I find the tail blowing out on occasion and the coach watching me at Coble's didn't think I was asking too much of the ski. I am running straight stock for a 68" Helix but the bindings are back a 1/4. I am going to move the wing to 8 from 7 tomorrow and see how it goes.

[kstateskier]

7 seems to be a sweet spot for the wing on the Helix. At 8 I was experiencing a heavy bite on my offside turn. At 7 the ski carries through with good speed.

[SkiJay]

@kstateskier‌ If you're getting heavy tip-bite with 8°, something else in the setup is not adjusted to suit your technique. Your bindings may be too forward, the fin may be too long, the fin may be too far forward, or some combination of these. The Helix actually likes 8°.

[Chef23]

I am still at 8* and stock on everything else. I think I would like to free up the offside a little but I don't want to shallow out the fin. I am going to ski a few more sets on it before I mess around with it. I am not sure if it is just me. I don't feel like I am skiing that well but it could easily be me. I have had a couple of passes where the ski seems to turn and hold like I want it to but I am not fully there yet.

[Chef23]

@SkiJay any idea how the settings you posted on 6/21 would translate to a 68" ski?

[SkiJay]

Hey @Chef23. I'm in the mountains with spotty Internet access until Tuesday, then we can get into this in more depth.

 

In the meantime, given what you've posted, it sounds like the ski is too tip sensitive at factory settings, which is not unusual for skiers coming off of a Nano One.

 

Try 6.910 (tips), 2.520, .745 (head), 30.25, and 8°. This will make the tip less sensitive reducing tip-grab, reduce tail-smear at the ball, and increase roll resistance a tad to help guard against blowing out the tail.

 

Let me know how this works =)

[Chef23]

Well I ran my first 32 of the season today but I am going to try @SkiJay's settings. I am still a little cautious on the offside.