How many Big Dawg vs. Pro skiers can you name?

[ScarletArrow]

If you were to ask me to name 20 of the top 50 BD skiers (Link), I could probably do it no problem.

 

If you were to ask me to name 20 of the top 50 Pro skiers (Link), I would have a harder time.

 

Are BD skiers more popular than their Pro counterparts?

 

Perhaps its just my own bias since I know a few BD skiers personally... but it sure seems like the BDWT is more popular than the PST. I think it's b/c there is a more cohesion in branding, marketing and sponsorship; where each PST event seems to be on its own island.

 

Should the Pro division be made more difficult to create a wider and more obvious separation between the two (e.g. 38mph)? Shouldn't we say something like, "Of course BD skiers can ski a shorter line, they're going so much slower!"

 

Is there any other sport where the amateur division rivals the popularity of the pro division?

 

Can we really call the BD's amateurs? I know many of them have real jobs like the rest of us and make a huge sacrifice to get to the level they are at; yet, they are also blessed with natural talent and probably a job that allows them to live a lifestyle of the hardcore training that needed to get to this level (i.e. time and/or discretionary income). BD skiers may not be like the Pro's (getting paid to take the podium), but BD skiers are not like the rest of us either.

 

How well would the average BD compete at the pro level?

 

It's interesting to see guys like Andy, Jeff, Todd and Seth drop down from the pro ranks to compete against common man, but we expect them to finish well (and they do). How would it work going the other direction (e.g. David Miller against Will Asher)? I think this is really where the difference would really become apparent. I think it would be exciting to watch.

 

If the Masters is going to let MM skiers participate, why not go out at 36mph to see how they stack up against the very best? We already have a "masters" type tournament for the best 34mph skier, the BD finals. Why not make this event even more unique by going "Rocky" style in giving the common skier a chance to take down the champion in a record tournament?

 

Just musings...

[matthewbrown]

@scarletarrow because those who follow this sport relentlessly already know how well the average Big Dawg would compete at the pro level. In fact, we know how the top Big Dawgs would compete at the pro level. It's like apples and oranges, not even close. It's called thank you for your entry fee and here is your award for placing 25th out of 30 participants. Luckily, the Big Dawgs aren't in it for that. They have their own community which competes against each other. They are not trying to figure out where they would stack up against the pros because competition is so fierce within the Big Dawg they could care less. This Pro/Big Dawg thing is getting old. We should be celebrating all skiers from all divisions, not asking silly hypothetical questions that have no relevance. Let the pros fight it out to run 3@43, let the Big Dawgs compete their brains out against their fierce competitors/life long friends, and quit trying to throw 50+ year old skiers off the starting dock at 36mph, at 7am east coast time at Robin Lake......this is how broken ankles happen.

[ral]

I for sure can mention 20 out of the top 50 best skiers in the world. And totally agree with @matthewbrown‌... And can probably mention more top skiers than BDs. But I would contest calling all the top 50 skiers "pros"...

[T-fromTO]

The Pro/Big Dawg thing is a conversation that needs to be had. What is it about these Big Dawg events that make them as popular (or more so) than the pro events? I've worked out a few reasons.

 

1. The average water skier (male, over the age of 35 with job and family) can relate to these guys (male, over the age of 35 with job and family). This is their peer group. They say to themselves "If I train really hard maybe I could ski in one of these!" or "What if it was me out there? How would I do?". This is huge, it makes it personal.

 

2. There really are about 15-20 guys who could win a BD event. The competition is so close between so many guys that it can't help but be interesting. With the pros, there is such a narrow field of guys that can win their events that they have become somewhat predictable.

 

3. The format of the BD is very cool. Any guy 35 plus can pay the entry fee and get thrown into a pot with up to 50 other guys. They ski 2 rounds and try to make the "Sweet 16" head to head to make the "Elite 8" head to head. The BD events really are well run events at great and varied sites. The fact that it is an international series adds to the cache.

 

I'm just calling it like I see it. Not really sure what we can take away from this to make the pro events more interesting.

 

[jipster43]

There are certainly too few pro events and they are paying out too little, but I wouldn't say they are less interesting than the Big Dawg series.

 

The Moomba, The Masters, The Atlanta Pro Am, The Malibu Open, The Calgary Shootout, and Diablo Shores Pro Am are always incredible and often draw much bigger crowds than the BD series.

 

The hard reality is pro waterskiing has about as much financial support and crowd interest as curling. Not enough people can afford this sport and only true enthusiasts have much interest in watching a tournament.

 

The success of the Big Dawg is a testament to how loyal those that are involved in this sport really are. And, of course, how talented some of the old farts are.

 

More than growing the sport, I think it would be cool if there was a group of benefactors who could ensure the top pros made enough money that they could continue to compete without having to worry about where there next meal is going to come from.

[DanE]

The Big Dawg actually have a (sort of) Pro tour with a series of events leading up to a final event.

I think pro skiing would be more interesting if there was a pro tour like in the old days instead of just scattered events.

[ScarletArrow]

@matthewbrown You're right, we do know what would happen. (I probably wrote a muddy first post)

 

There are strong feelings about the role of the BD in the sport, that it takes away from the PST.

 

Part of the reason people feel this way is because they know the average fan can't tell the difference of the apple an orange nature between a BD and Pro skier that is so apparent to you and I.

 

I was not suggesting "merger" where BD skiers are regularly competing against Pro... I don't think anyone is interested in that (we all know what would happen).

 

As someone who follows the sport relentlessly, I was just wondering aloud...

 

1. The BD seems to be more popular in my neck of the woods... is that true for you?

 

2. A natural fan of any sport would wonder how the champion of a lower division would compete against the average opponent of a higher division in a one game scenario. Happens all the time at the collegiate level.

 

Isn't a part of fandom asking hypothetical questions that we already know or could never know the answer?

 

Anyway... no argument here @matthewbrown I always appreciate your insight.

[ForrestGump]

The cut at a pro ski event is typically 2+ at 41off. If you stuck the top 10 Big Dawg skiers out there at 36 with no training, they are going to struggle to run 2@39. Sure, you might see the occasional 1@41. But it's ridiculous to even suggest something like that is a good idea. David Miller, even with training at 36 for months, wasn't out running 39 at every event he skied Pro in. You don't see regional amateur cycling teams sending their top guy to the Tour de France to see how he'd fair against the Pelleton. He'd get killed.

 

I'm not sure why it even matters if the average fan can't tell the difference. At Diablo Shores, I went down at 32 off and when I was climbing out of the water, the fans on the shore were patting me on the back and telling me it was awesome. They couldn't tell my 32 off from Todd Ristorcelli's(who skied right in front of me) 2@41. Andy they didn't care.

[TFIN]

I find this thread kind of strange. There isn't this rift between Pro and BD skiers. What the BD guys, Chad, Jay, Todd and the crew have going on is rad; an ultra-competitive tour of events where the winner is typically anyone's guess. I think what people lose sight of is that skiing's broadest fan base doesn't solely exist here, within the pages BOS. The sport's consumer base, magazine readership and participating public are not as connected to the industry and its top athletes as the average BOS reader. a sort of 'forest for the trees' thing is going on here. BD is not taking dollars out of Nate, WIll's or my pocket. Likewise, Degasperi and Rossi aren't bummed that BD has a solid following. I have guys on the BD whose skiing I follow closely and cheer for emphatically; dudes I respect as skiers and as people. These two facets of the sport coexist seamlessly.

TF

[Chad_Scott]

Thanks. TFIN for chiming in. The BD is 50 guys that put the entries up and ski for a pot. About like my neighborhood poker game. As you know most of the big dawg skiers are huge fans of yours and all of professional skiers in general. I personally agree with some on here and beleive there should be a bigger pro tour for you guys. Thanks for your comments. See you soon