Baller XR6Hurricane Posted July 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 10, 2014 The state senator whose nephew got run over by the drunk cokehead on Petite Lake two years ago got her way and our darling governor signed it into law over the holiday weekend. Flag has to be flown the entire time the skier isn't in the boat, starting next year. At any rate, the law is the law...my boat has a low Lexan windshield so now I need to figure out how to mount one to the pylon since it's the highest point in the boat and the only way to get it above our line of vision. The only good part is along with it came tougher BUI laws allowing the seizure of boats for multiple offenses, and anyone born after 1998 has to hold a certificate from a boating class to operate a boat over 10 horsepower. Unfortunately no new laws were passed to prevent politically connected attorneys from renting pontoon boats and towing their kid in the busiest traffic lane on the Fox Chain at 4 PM on a 95 degree Saturday in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OTF Posted July 10, 2014 Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 Makes sense........I mean if the skier goes down at least orange flag is in the boat where it's safe and out of harms way and not indicating the position of the down skier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller xrated Posted July 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 10, 2014 If only they could make a law about people driving random patterns while everyone in the boat including the driver stares back at the tuber. Or jet skis flying in front of boats and all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Yeah I am sure that's gonna make the 30-40ft boats on the chain and fox river pay attention!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted July 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 10, 2014 Never understood the whole skier flag thing. We had to buy one the year we went to Lake of the Ozarks and I fail to see how a tiny little orange flag suction cupped to a 20ft boat is going to attract anyones attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted July 10, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted July 10, 2014 I am glad they are concentrating on the boating activity and not the murder rate issues. Must have been a fun 4th in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 There are a few lakes in indiana that have similar rules. I wonder if there is any evidence that these flags actually change the accident rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller XR6Hurricane Posted July 11, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 @MS Chicago is a third world nation and it's time that everyone in this state woke up to that fact and booted it out of ours. I don't think the flag will make a bit of difference, but I guess after almost 40 years on the water I'm still not as smart as a freshman state senator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 There are a few states that have this law, and I wonder if there are any stats that indicate it actually reduced anything. Note Calif law in middle of image. Is this still in effect? Was it effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkfight Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Still law in California, although it's more of a "skier down" thing. Not required while a person is up and skiing, as far as I know. It's been that way forever. If we see an orange flag flying, space is given to that boat and a hand is raised to show that the flag and downed skier are spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 Welcome to the dumb rule states! Wish I owned a company that sold orange skier flags in Illinois...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I recall a discussion about the flags a while back. Some folks involved early on in promoting the flag rule later regretted the way the rule was written and implemented- they said in retrospect that drawing attention to the boat and not the downed skier was the wrong (more unsafe) way to go. Having nearly been run over by another boat, while the towboat (w/the orange flag waving like mad) returned for me- I suspect they are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 At least they didn't require the skier to carry the flag and waive it when they fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Waternut Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 ....or you could just make boaters get a license so they are more responsible and know how to drive and what to watch for. Heck I'd say make the license renewable every 5 years and make people pay like $50 for it too. Then you'd have to show your license to launch your boat. I think that would really cut down on the accidents and problems. Not because it would teach stupid people how to drive as I don't really think that's possible but because it would eliminate a lot of casual weekend boaters who aren't serious enough to deal with the hassle of a license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumjahn Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I grew up skiing in California 20 years ago, and they had the orange flag while skier was down rule back then. I remember the spotter just held the flag in his lap and as soon as the skier fell, he raised the flag and held it up as the boat came around to get the skier or set up for the next run. The flag did not have to be raised when skier was up, only when he was in the water and down. It actually made sense, because when you saw a boat with an orange flag, you knew to look for a skier in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 Personally I would like to see a requirement for a flag on jet skiz weighted with a ball that would hit them on the head anytime they got fancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 @Waternut Wouldn't having to show a license to boat disenfranchise the poor who wish to use the lake?! What's next, wanting people to prove who they are to vote too by providing ID? I'm being completely sarcastic of course, but it would be interesting to see how certain politicians would look at your idea, which actually makes perfect sense. Years back, we spent a few hours on the Fox. Didn't know we needed a day pass to launch, and were fined $110 by the lake police for it, then they literally followed us around for remained of the time we boated, stopping us one additional time to make us show our PFD's. I'd never go back there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Skoot1123 Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 Wonder if this applies to private lakes - with only one boat on it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bbirlew Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 @AB, Shhh... Don't give them any ideas!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hey it's 'Merica, we make laws for the stupid minority so they are protected from themselves. Wait until someone pokes an eye out on one of the flags! Flags with large blunt ends.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LakeOneSkier Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 Interesting opinions... I grew up skiing in California and this was always a requirement on public lakes. Thought this was the norm and it worked as others have described above. Not a big deal. I now live on a private lake in Illinois and would love to have a little orange flag so I could a) let my weekend warrior neighbors know that I'm on the lake because they're not bright enough to figure it out on their own, and b) poke their eyes out. (just kidding, but it would be tempting :-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted July 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 11, 2014 @GOODESkier I'm sure it's too late to produce orange flags in Illinois for capitalist purposes...the gov't likely is producing them and selling them thru law enforcement at a profit. Either that or the legislator pushing the law owns the orange dye company or some such. Also being sarcastic. Can't believe the flag makes any difference in lake mortality because it doesn't cure stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I thought this was a useless rule growing up on a private lake. Once you get your rope run over a few times especially if the skier is in between the boat and a long line, you wave the flag high for amateur boaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The issue I see is from what I have read, the flag has to be up all the time. Not just when the skier falls. Also these big ass cabin cruisers on inland lakes and rivers usually don't see my boat let alone a skier in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller XR6Hurricane Posted July 12, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted July 12, 2014 @swc5150 What can I say other than that was a good example of how a FIBs are treated in Wisconsin every day. Seriously though, the requirement is posted at most ramps but if you launched at a hole in the wall it may not have been. Back on topic, I agree with the notion that the flag's effect is lost by the fact that it's up all the time. More government intrusion with little to no benefit...but that is what they are good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Deke Posted July 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 12, 2014 I ski in Colorado which has a flag law. Sorry to ruin the party, but it's not that big of a deal.... Actually, having to have a third (spotter) can be the real imposition, especially on an uncrowded lake. Mirrors work great and it is not good skiing if there are other boats around anyway. All said flags and spotters don't prevent idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 12, 2014 When I was young and skied on public lakes, no one in my family drank at the lake. By the time I was of legal age to drink, I was on a ski team where drinking was not allowed at the lake. Ever since then, I ski on private sites where everyone keeps the beers in the cooler until after the boat is wiped down at the end of the day. Most competitive skiers are serious about their craft and know that alcohol doesn't equate to extra buoys. I am always shocked when I encounter weekend wally friends and their cavalier attitudes about drinking while boating/skiing. To most of them, a trip to the lake isn't complete without open containers the whole time on the water. I just don't understand that. I'm not a prude, and I really enjoy my fair share of adult beverages; but not at the risk of others on the water. If public lake enforcement included severe fines for open containers on boats in addition to severe consequences for BUI; I'd think we could see some improvement on our lakes. Oh, and I totally agree with @xrated's comment about towed inflatables with the entire occupants looking backward including the driver - that should be immediate escort off the water and confiscation of the inflatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chuck_Dickey Posted July 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 12, 2014 Maybe the skiers should have the flag attached to their heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bojans Posted July 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 12, 2014 We are on a private ski lake in Illinois and have had the DNR stop by for a "safety" check. Probably best to just have the orange flag up at all times on private water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted July 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 12, 2014 I am not sure what I would do if the DNR trespassed on my property to come do a "safety" check on my boat while I am skiing on my lake. That seems like an over-reach of authority to me! Their Mission Statement is not to hassle property owners on private property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller XR6Hurricane Posted July 12, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted July 12, 2014 @ToddL I couldn't agree more and was going to comment on the booze too, but didn't want to stray too far off topic. The heart of the problem, as I see it, isn't the inexperience, the idiocy, or even the drinking in and of itself. It is the mentality that boating is just another gateway to getting wasted. The people in question are not boaters and therefore they take no interest in becoming responsible or good drivers. They are partiers first and boaters a very distant second. It's gotten dramatically worse in recent years too - all you have to do is look at what types of boats are selling the best. Deck boats and pontoons are all people want. I'd hate to see things get to the point that nobody could enjoy a cold beer on a boat, but quite honestly an all-out ban wouldn't affect me because I don't drink anymore. It would also weed out those who don't have a passion for the water and are just using it as another means to binge drink. Your comment about them not thinking a trip to the lake is complete without open containers is right on. Since when was going skiing or just for a boat ride not good enough, and not enough fun? You can get plowed in your living room a helluva lot cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator1 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Tried not to read this thread because: Politicians, Illinois, Chicago, stupid laws. Quadrangle of evil, why harsh my mello on a sat morning a half hour before I get to ski. Damnit. My home state. Highest number of convicted and imprisoned politicians in the Union. You guys are missing the point. Why is it the skier's job to protect himself? Do pedestrians have to wave a flag if they step into the street? Do bikers have to wave a flag if they ride their bike? NO. It is a common sense, logical rule of thumb, and rule of LAW, that applies to most forms of movement: The powered and manuverable vehicle watches out for, and avoids, the unpowered unmanuverable entity. I have to give way in my heli to airplane. Powerboat has to give way to sailboat. WHY THE F___K do I have to wave a flag to protect myself from a drunk/innattentive boat driver? You fix this by placing the burden of proof on the guy in the powerboat who ran over the guy in the water. And set the penalties accordingly. Instead, this is a continuation of the mindset that skiers are trespassing on the water, and drunk pieces of shit who shouldn't be allowed out of their yards have the right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bojans Posted July 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 13, 2014 @AB I could tell you some stories that would make your blood boil, unfortunately they have jurisdiction over the water and can cross private property to patrol (we disagree on their right to drive a pickup through yards and on our bike path) so we don't have much say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted July 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 13, 2014 Getting a bit off-topic, but still about dumb laws: In New Hampshire, if you're pulling doubles, you need TWO observers. More than doubles is a no-no except for shows and show practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller harrison Posted July 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 13, 2014 Great law. We have it in Idaho. The flag is seen and the observer is more attentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller foxriverat Posted July 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 13, 2014 Its not going to affect me much. The dnr patrols where the drunks are. So they are always up on the chain of lakes. The lower fox river where I`m at we see them maybe once a year. We have about a 4 mile boatable stretch between dams. 1 public launch. Everyone pretty much knows each other so when they come out everyone knows there out. I guess I will keep a flag in the boat incase there ever out. But wait. Then I have to find a spotter : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller XR6Hurricane Posted July 14, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted July 14, 2014 @harrison The attitude around here, even among non-skiers, is "A helluva lot of good THAT'S gonna do..." We'll see I guess. @foxriverat - No spotter, and you are able to tip each other off when the cops are going to be out there? You guys are my heroes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller foxriverat Posted July 14, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 14, 2014 Sorry if it sounded like I like to break the rules. Been skiing on the lower fox for over 20 years. I work nights and can ski in the day when no ones out. (its hard to find other skiers that keep the same hours. I found 1 guy on a regular basis) Or 6am on weekends before the jetskis and tubers come out. Thats the only time to ski on the river if you want to run the course. The rest of the time I wont even go out. And this helps me see my skier pretty good http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=CIPA-Extreme-Mirror&i=33592 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Broussard Posted July 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted July 18, 2014 @Skoot1123 I would assume that it would not matter on a private lake. Many people ski with a non-CGA vest and trick with nothing. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 @Waternut that sounds like a tax I'm not paying!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayslakeskier Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 For those who could not access the law's full text, you can find it here. There are some ideas on how to mount the flag pole holder too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ham_Wallace Posted February 23, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 23, 2015 Boater's Education! Especially PWC's. Personal Water Craft drivers on public waterways seem to be the stupidest people in the world. They think that we skiers are impressed by them doing doughnuts outside our course and then going around our bouys while we wait. There needs to be a REAL education course for them before they are allowed to launch their craft. One guy at the boat ramp reprimanded me for backing my TXI in too fast and rocking his Sea Doo against the dock. He said,"my wake from backing my boat in, banged up his boat". Myself and Chuck Ainlay quickly informed his fat @#s that what he had wasn't a boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Keith_Menard Posted March 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 6, 2015 In AZ we always had the spotter put a flag up when a skier was in the water...I was amazed to find out the peoples republic of MA did not have a similar requirement. The lakes are smaller out here and I fear for my life with all the drivers who think they are supposed to look behind the boat rather than in front of it. A little warning that there is someone in the water always seemed like a good idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bassfooter Posted March 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 6, 2015 @Porkfight and @Rumjahn are correct: It's still the law in California and the flag only has to be up when the skier is down or otherwise in the water. With as crowded as our public waterways get, I feel it's actually pretty effective. This is especially true in the narrower waterways of the Colorado River and the Delta. Most boaters know to give you wide berth, and many will wave a hand to let you know they see you. As a driver, a flag up ahead tends to make you pay closer attention. No biggie. Having said all that, flying a flag while the skier is up sounds like a pain in the butt. I think it would be more of a distraction, flapping in your ears and blocking your view. Someone needs to take one of those flags to Springfield and bonk that politician over the head with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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