So I forgot my ski....

[DefectiveDave]

I brought the boat and everything else, but left the ski at home. *shakes head*

 

So I had to ski on a friend's Radar Senate, which blew my ski out of the water (figuratively of course). I was much wider and way earlier at 32mph and 34 mph than I have ever been on my 2013 Syndicate A3 with much less effort. It was almost too easy. I felt naturally centered on the ski, felt good stack, didn't tail drag at any point, and crushed my gates. I had some problems in my two sets crushing out the front on occasion from the stronger turns, but otherwise I felt I would have run 34 mph pretty easily (which I just don't do).

 

So I ask the community, what is going on here? Is there something fundamentally different about the the Radar Senate with Vector/RTP at stock settings and my 2013 A3 with Reflex/RTP at stock settings that would explain this radical difference? I felt the same thing earlier this year when I tried out a D3 Fusion. I feel like I'm fighting the A3 just to get it to turn into the gates (RFF with 2 handed gate), and the tail drags like crazy by comparison unless I just shift almost all of my weight forward (even in the glide).

 

I know the A3 can be skied at high levels, but I'm having trouble getting results from it. So is this a function of the ski, binders, skier technique? I would like to update my equipment once I find the root cause, but it's going to take some equipment shuffling and a few weeks before I'm able to put my bindings on the Senate. Thanks Ballers!

[BraceMaker]

Did you demo or otherwise specifically fall in love with the A3 when you got it? Or was it just something you bought?

[Horton]

One ski fits you better than the other. Simple as that.

[DefectiveDave]

@BraceMaker, @Horton‌ ,

 

I bought the A3 on ski-it-again as I didn't have anywhere nearby to demo (Charlotte, NC). People said good things so I didn't think I could go wrong. However, I did change both the ski and binders simultaneously.

 

My old binders are with a new owner now (they were too small anyway), so it's going to take me a while to try different binders. Are the binders a potential issue? I've heard that reflex changes the handling significantly.

[gregy]

Was it a 2014 Senate? 2014 is a wider version of the Vapor which to me was really easy to ski on. Senate probably rides a little higher in the water than an A3 which will make it feel less effort. I'm sure you have no problem selling the A3 if you want to switch.

[DefectiveDave]

@gregy,

 

It was a 2013 Senate I believe.

 

I think today's results speak for themselves and I need to switch something. First step is going to be putting my Reflex on the Senate and seeing if the results repeat. If that works well then I'm going ski shopping. If the Reflex turns out to be the problem I don't know what I'm going to do because I really like that darned boot. Still, I can see the reflex giving me issues at the gates with weight shift, but I don't see it being the cause of the tail dragging.

 

Technically I'm in the M2 age group, so I still need to ski 36 MPH if I ever get good enough for competition. So the Senate might be out as an option.

[MattP]

@DefectiveDave‌ you are already good enough for competition!

[DefectiveDave]

@MattP,

 

I'll occasionally do an F-class tournament for some coaching and fun. Can't beat a day at the lake. However, I do wish I could actually ski "competitively" but at the moment there is little point in me so. I probably wouldn't even try until I could do 32 off, so there's much work to be done.

[GOODESkier]

@DefectiveDave‌ your answer above is ALL WRONG! I wasted 3 years going from 15-38 OFF and SHOULD HAVE BEEN SKIING AWSA the ENTIRE TIME! Or atleast INT! Don't wait till you are "good enough" ski them now and watch yourself improve twice as fast!

 

Honest, that is my only regret, WAITING till I could run 35...... STUPID STUPID STUPID! SKI NOW!

[Skoot1123]

@defectivedave - I too have a 2013 A3. Trent F. helped me set mine up by e-mail. My ski is sick - I used to keep thinking about the "what if's." (Should I switch, should I try something else?) However the faster I ride that ski the more amazed I am by it. BUT. . . . . if your really having issues maybe the best thing for you to do IS switch. Some ski's just don't work for a person's style. If your more comfortable on the Senate or another ski - go for it!

[Chef23]

@DefectiveDave most of the skiers at the tournaments in the East that I ski in don't run 32 regularly. The tournaments are about fun, skiing to your potential and spending time with friends and family. I wouldn't wait until you can run 32. If you can run 3 or 4 passes go meet some people and have a good time.

 

The Senate is a good ski. There was a kid in our region that was skiing on one as a Boys 2 skier into 28 off and he ran it for the first few months as a Boys 3 skier at 36 mph without a problem.

[ricski39]

@DefectiveDave the entire 2013 line of Radar skis (with the exception of the Lyric I believe) is based on the shape of the Strada, just wider versions. So when you ride that Senate you're not just riding a wider ski. It's very performance based and is very capable of skiing through 38'.

Everyone skis a little differently, so not every ski works the same for everyone. I've run 35' on my A3 but have never run a 28' on any year Strada. That doesn't mean it isn't a good ski, because I know people that absolutely rip on theirs. If that Senate works for you then stick with it!

As far as your bindings, I would stick with your current Reflex setup. Radar does make extremely comfortable bindings, but in my opinion Reflex is one of the safest and most dependable binding setups around.

[mbabiash]

I'm selling my 2014 senate graphite on ski-it-again.

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=28827

[PatRe]

@DefectiveDave‌ I Agree with the above posts. There's a lot to be said about tournament participation. I can still remember starting to compete in my M1 days. I don't think I made a pass in my first tournament. Later that season I earned my first rating by getting a few at 22. It was back before speed control (yes, I'm old) and I remember it like it was yesterday. I still remember the boat crew... Ken (a very young boat driver - too young to mention in the youngest driver thread - a great driver then and among the best of drivers now), Brenda (still active in the sport and her young girls are, let's say, nationally recognized), and Jennifer (also still making major contributions to our sport).

 

I agree with @GOODESkier‌ and @Chef23‌ Don't wait. Do go to tournaments. Volunteer your help. Perhaps work towards or for upgrading ratings. You'll have fun, make new memories and ski better!

[DefectiveDave]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm currently near Charlotte, NC on Lake Norman. Does anyone know somewhere I could try out some skis in early August (preferably a wide range)? I know Seth Stisher has a ski school down in Charleston, SC and Coble Ski School is in Lillington, NC, but I don't think either are open on weekends. Well, Coble does have a monthly Saturday ski school, but those are full through the end of the year.

 

@GOODESkier‌, @MattP, @PatRe,

I think the main thing keeping me from doing more tournaments, even if just F-class, is that my wife isn't really involved. I'm working on her, but she gets boat sick and won't take dramamine. :-/

 

@mbabiash,

I'm only 160 lbs so unfortunately that ski is a little on the big side for me.

[MattP]

@DefectiveDave‌ find a way to get your wife involved as a scorer, judge, cheerleader ect.

She gets sick in a ski boat? Sounds like she would love going to watch you ski at tournaments from te scoring tower! There are a group of ladies that score in my area that have a blast in the tower together (it's also air conditioned).

[gregy]

If you can try a Vapor and new Senate in an appropriate size. I think the Senate will do fine at 36 as long as its the right size for your weight. There's some shops that have programs for trying skis if you can't get anywere to do it.

[lakeaustinskier]

My ski partner finally convinced me that life is too short to just buy a ski solely based on what other people think about it. Different skis fit different people. H2Osmosis has an excellent "try before you buy" program. OR depending on your risk level buy a slightly used ski, try it and if it doesn't work for you then sell it to someone else who might love that ski.

[chris_logan]

@DefectiveDave Go demo some skis next weekend at at Trophy Lakes. I bought 2 Radars from them, and demoed everything I have bought from them. They had a fair price on everything, plus have a sweet site to test it all out.

 

I'm also a M2 skier and I don't run 32 off... as a matter of fact I'd probably give you a good run if we were ever at a tournament together. Tournaments to me are about fun 1st. The quality of my skiing is only a secondary focus for the tournament, and usually is better when I don't focus on it at all.

[andjules]

@DefectiveDave‌ A couple of questions I'm surprised no one asked:

- how long was the Senate, how long is your A3

- was it a Senate C, or a regular Senate?

[A_B]

I think it is safe to say if you ski on a piece of plywood and you run a PB on it, buy it! Do NOT let it slip through your hands. I learned the hard way on this.

 

I would get the flex #'s off the ski you tried and start talking to ski shops or Radar for one similar. Today!

[DefectiveDave]

@lakeaustinskier‌,

I didn't know about the h2osmosis program, thanks! I think I might like the idea of buying lots of used skis and trying them out. I'll most likely lose a bit on each ski, but in the end I get a cheaper ski and more time to evaluate each one. Great point!

 

@chris_logan,

Do they have skis other than Radar and Razor? I'd like to try a D3 and Goode as well if possible. I can probably just give them a call tomorrow now that I think about it.

 

@andjules,

I can't believe I forgot that myself. Both skis were 67" and it was a regular 2013 Senate.

 

@AB,

It's funny, all last year I just used ratty old equipment until I finally convinced myself to upgrade after a rash of injuries associated with said ratty equipment. However, now that I've upgraded to "nice" equipment, I now find that it may not be the "right" equipment for me. And more money goes into the hole!

 

As for flex numbers, I didn't notice that the Senate I skied on had the flexs stamped on the ski. Is this something that needs to be tested?

[A_B]

If not stamped in the ski, if it has a serial #, you could call Radar and I think they keep records on them. Or, if you know someone with a flex tester, have them check it.

 

I have skied on 2 identical skis, and a 6-7 pound difference in flex is noticeable.

[lcarnes]

I'm going to chime in and vote that you come ski in the Mystic Waters Ski and Skeet Pro Am in Lake Lure on August 23. We are just down the road from you and will have F class for new tournament skiers. We will pair you with a pro in the shooting tournament for a chance at a $1000 prize. Your wife can enjoy the Health, Wellness and Art Festival, watch the Dirty Dancing Dancers, a Tai Chi demonstration or even better, get a massage. After that, she can buy a smoothie from Whitney McClintock and take a guided hike around a 162 acre former Girl Scout Camp. The evening will include an awards banquet with beach music and a camp fire with s'mores. Sunday is Funday and we still have a couple of slots for ski lessons with some of the pros.

 

Here's the link to our Facebook page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/mysticwaterslakelure

 

Deadline is August 1 and we have just a couple of slots left...

 

 

[GOODESkier]

@lcarnes‌ you had me at s'mores............

[I5boi]

@DefectiveDave‌ if you are that close to Charleston, go see Seth!! We had the opportunity to see him in April and it was so helpful. Easy to understand concepts that you will take with you. Not just a bunch of science that you don't understand (my other experiences). Make it a weekend and enjoy the great food offerings of Charleston. I meant to do a great review of my experience at Seth's but got busy. We are trying to figure out when we can go east again.

[ricski39]

@DefectiveDave Trophy Lakes sells Radar, Razor, and HO skis. They won't have any D3 or Goode skis available. You can demo skis at either Tophy Lakes or over with Seth. Since he's a D3 guy he can get any size and model D3 for you to try if you give him the heads up.

And since both Trophy and Seth are on the same island, you can go ski with Seth during the week and hit up Trophy on the weekend.

I agree with @15boi in addition to the skiing there's way too much good food to pass up. It's a great place to spend some time.

[Chef23]

@DefectiveDave Coble's mostly has HO skis and she has some Goode's as well that I am sure you could arrange to try. If you are interested in trying some skis send April or Chris an email and I am sure they will work with you to figure something out. It is less than 2 hours from Charlotte to Lillington where Coble's is located. They are probably gone a fair amount through Nationals/Malibu Open but might be around more after that.

[DefectiveDave]

Hey everybody. I did sign up for @lcarnes tournament. My wife will not be going, but alas I have to choose my battles. I'm pretty sure if I'd asked just once more she would have hit me in the nose with a newspaper. Oh well...

 

I've been hoping to start going to some ski schools in August after this hellish work month is over, so I'll hopefully have some time to try new skis then. In the meantime I'll make the most of what I have and maybe borrow the Senate when the opportunities arise. Thanks everybody!

[Marco]

Welcome to the tournament scene @DefectiveDave !!! You won't regret going, and I am sure you will meet a bunch of great people who will be cheering for you.

 

I was talking to Will and Elaine other day, and they mentioned that D3 also has a demo program. I don't know the details, but they said the info is on their website. D3 makes high performance yet forgiving skis with big sweet spots. http://www.d3skis.com/

[DefectiveDave]

@DaveLemons,

 

My front binding is at the stock position. I've tried moving it forward 1/8 and 1/4" and that did help alleviate the problem somewhat, but many people have advised against novices moving the bindings forward so I put them back to stock. The fin and boot settings are currently very near stock as measured by caliper:

 

67 - 29.5" 0.733, 2.512, 6.843

Wing = 7 degrees

 

I also tried out Matt Brown's settings for a while and liked them a bit more than the current fin settings:

 

67 - 29.5" 0.775, 2.515, 6.850

Wing = 7-9 degrees

 

I also went to the extreme and tried these settings for a while:

 

67 - 29.5" 0.795, 2.400, 6.700

Wing = off, 7, and 9 degrees

 

Those freed up the ski somewhat but made it unpredictable.

 

Here is video showing the tail being a stick in the mud at the gate:

 

 

I'm not sure if this video was at 30 or 32 mph. However, I start to initiate the turn by trying to fall in towards the gates but the ski will not fall into place as the tail drags. Eventually I give up, start pulling on the rope to set the ski on edge, and drop my bum (I know it's a bad move). I do not have video of my ride on the Senate.

[ChadW]

@DefectiveDave‌ - 2 observations: you are pulling out and slowing down too much, which is causing you to get sucked in. I would recommend pulling out later and getting higher on the boat. That should enable you turn in with more speed and stop you from sinking and getting sucked back in. The other observation is the need to get stacked. For me, thinking about squeezing my butt cheeks was the key to teaching me the stacked position.

[DefectiveDave]

@OB and @ChadW,

 

Haha, yes I definitely have technique problems as well. I'm hoping to get some coaching in August. I think you hit the nail on the head @OB. This ski requires me to be pretty aggressive with my movements if I want to get the ski around and get velocity going into the course. Is that typical of the A3?

 

I guess the reason I liked the Senate so much was that it responded better to small inputs and I didn't have to be too aggressive to get the angle I needed. I was able to try focusing on body position rather than fighting the ski. In the video above, once I come into the course with that little speed, it's hard (for me at least) to get good body position after the fact.

 

 

[gregy]

When I skied on the Vapor with Wilson bros I commented that I didn't have to try to get in proper body position. It felt like it happened automatically. I mentioned something and Brooks said it was due to the flat area under the foot.

[DefectiveDave]

@gregy,

So you're saying the Vapor doesn't need to be skied too aggressively? :-)

 

@OB,

I certainly wasn't saying I shouldn't be too aggressive earlier, I think that is great advice. I just think that sometimes my brain equates "aggressive" with "pull on the rope as hard as you can" rather than "STACK!".

[gregy]

@defectivedave I had skied 2 hard sets just before trying the Vapor I had skied really badly. I wasn't sure if I even had any thing left but I wanted to see what the hype was about. It was like I wasn't even trying and I was early to the balls. I free ski the first pass and it seem really fast. In the coarse it felt great.

 

I'm 6'2 185 and Brooks put me on a 67". I think the wider front makes it ski a little bigger. I had been on a 68" X7 and a 67" Strada before. At times I felt like maybe I should have been on a 68"

Strada.

[DefectiveDave]

@OB,

 

Judging by the timing on the video it looks like the pass was about 19 seconds, so probably a 30 mph pass. I tend to use 30 mph as an opener, so the ski was probably sinking worse than normal during that pass.

[Than_Bogan]

Sometimes @OB is a bit blunt -- he's a Marine after all. But he's dead on here. You don't need to worry much about your ski right now. Focus entirely on getting consistently stacked. Nothing else matters until you can leverage in a balanced centered position. It will change everything!!

[Skoot1123]

@defectiveDave - check out than's Leverage position article he wrote. It's an excellent piece to read - and when put into practice REALLY helps. You'll be amazed at how the leverage position will swing you out wide on the boat. Keep on working at it!

[bogboy]

@gregy, nice, I would love to try a 68, or more likely a 69.5 vapor. Hi eddie.