How wide do you pull out for the gates?

[ScarletArrow]

Ok... so I like polls. Conversation going with a ski friend. Let's assume a 15off skier at 34mph.. What is the ideal width the skier should be pulling out for their "negative one" before they roll in for the gates?

 

Obviously the width would be different for each line length, and perhaps most of the skiers on this board ski between 28 - 35off, but I think 15off 34mph is a good baseline for conversation sake.

 

And for clarification purposes, let's measure width with respect to how a skier lines up with the 2,4,6 buoy line at their widest point - i.e. where most have some kind of glide.

[ScarletArrow]

I try to get well outside of the buoy line all the up to 28off. When I ski at LaPoint Ski Park - which is an 8-buoy overlapping course with a "zero" ball, I'm better able to gauge my distance since the buoy is closer.

[skier2788]

Always been told at 15 and 22 you should be two boat widths wider than the boy line.

[LeonL]

Seeing as how the question is based on 15 off, I can't really answer. I think the real object is how far up on the boat do you get. Obviously farther as the line gets shorter, but not as wide.

[ScarletArrow]

@Horton that surprises me. can you give insight?

[Bruce_Butterfield]

It's better to think in terms of angle rather than width. You want to be as far up on the boat as you can get at all line lengths.

[Klundell]

I think you want to be at a similar angle that you are at the buoys. This means much higher as the line gets shorter. I don't think getting 12+ feet beyond the buoy line at 15 and 22 is doing you any favors.

[Chef23]

I don't look down the buoy line. Similar to what @Bruce_Butterfied said I base it on angle on the boat. I am working on increasing that angle but I don't know how far wider of the 2,4,6 line I am.

[Razorskier1]

Wide. At 32 off I'm still outside the buoy line. Once you start skiing, however, the goal is to create space, not excess width.

[Than_Bogan]

That's the zero ball. -1 would be on the oddside.

 

I made it over an hour without pointing that out, so maybe that's progress...

[ScarletArrow]

@Than_Bogan‌ love that!

[Waternut]

First off, I totally understand my vote is unpopular with the common thought process but hear me out... I've found if I pull too wide at the longer line lengths, I've already changed edges before I hit the wake and bad things start to happen. I'm bouncing off the wake on a weak edge or completely flat and then I'm going into 1 ball out of control with a ton of speed.

 

At 32off and beyond, I will pull out nice and wide but 28off and below, a really wide gate like everyone teaches is a fantastic way to ensure I won't make it to 4 ball.

[RazorRoss3]

I've found it is more based on height on the boat. There is a height that for me feels like I am free of the boat and can turn in with low energy but still generate enough speed.

[bigtex2011]

I agree with @Klundell. at 15 and 22 you have sp much extra line. I dont think getting 12 wide

is necessary and probably would cause timing issues at shorter line lengths. the width of 2,4 is fine

[GOODESkier]

One could think of it this way........ if you are 12 feet wide of the balls at the pull out, and you swing out like a pendulum and get 12 feet wide of 1 ball.........that might equal 24 extra feet of width you didn't need to travel? Just my 2 cents.

 

Ted Pooler likes to call it a "work zone. 15 off has a longer work zone than 41 off.......

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@waternut, don't confuse popularity with proper technique. I understand your issue, but your problem is not too much width, it's letting up behind the boat. I suspect you start in hard to the gate and your subconscious says "whoa big boy, way too fast" and you let up at exactly the wrong point.

 

Try getting wide, then edging in progressively so you can pull the hardest at the wakes. There will be a world of difference.

 

The general rule is the width on the gate establishes your angle and how hard/fast you start your turn determines your speed/control into #1.

[webbdawg99]

So I was skiing with @OB tonight. And Bruce's comment saying, "width establishes angle....how hard/fast .....determines speed/control" is exactly what OB had me working on. I was starting with good width, but was carrying too much speed into 1 at 38 off, resulting in a little slack line at the end of the turn. After fine tuning what I was trying to accomplish through several attempts, I ran my first 38 off ever tonight and got 2@39!

[ToddL]

I recently changed my gate pull out such that I don't look at 2-4-6 line at all. I simply look at the side of the boat and get up on the boat vs. behind it. When you are that far up on the boat you can actually start your turn in a little later and easier than you think. From there you end up with less load and better angle making you earlier with space into 1 ball.

[Waternut]

@bruce_butterfield and @webbdawg99 I totally agree with you guys that at shorter line lengths I will get as wide as possible. In fairness though, at the shorter line lengths, you simply can't hook up hard that wide so the added momentum of those extra few feet really helps. At 15 off, you can hook up way too hard way too early and now you've gotta figure out a way to deal with that.

 

I apologize if I'm confusing people but let's be honest...if there was only one way to do it, we wouldn't be debating this topic. If I was still trying to get the widest gate possible at 15 off, I'd still be at 15 off. The only thing that got me through that and 22 off was to start experimenting and find what works for me instead of what works for everyone else.

[A_B]

I always error on the side of too wide vs too narrow. When I have width, unless I pulled out too late, I have way more control on the turn in and can pretty much pick whatever line I want. When narrow, you get what you get, sometimes good sometimes not. I am RFF2H. 1H starters would have issues with setting up wide as possible.

 

The keys are being in the same starting spot every time, and factoring in head and tail winds. I probably pull out earlier than the average skier, but don't like a lot of speed when I turn in. I like the ski to settle in the water more.

 

With PP, I didn't really start leaning hard until pretty late to first wake, with ZO, I lean harder sooner and try to be off my hard lean by when I come down off the second wake. Maybe a 10 foot sooner hookup. I want ZO to be off me at one ball.

[Stevie Boy]

@Klundell, Reasons wider @‌ 22 does you no favours ?

General Question, some people get wider easier than others, any techniques that can help get wider earlier ?

[webbdawg99]

@rico. That's true. Some of us are better at maintaining outbound speed than others. For me, slowing down a bit gave me much more control. Speed doesn't cause slack, direction of speed does. But the harder/faster you go, the smaller the margin of error becomes for the proper edge change

[Skoot1123]

I have been experimenting with my gates quite a bit this year. (At least as much as I can with how frequently I get out on the lake.) For me getting wider/higher up on the boat helps so much "more" at the shorter line lengths (-28, -32) than at -15 and -22. One thing that getting wide and high at the longer line lengths does is allow you to get a good turn in for the gates with low load until the wakes. Either way, getting width/higher on the boat is what you have to do to be succesful at the shorter line lengths.

[acmx]

congrats @webbdawg99 ! That's a huge wall to break thru.

[MrJones]

Going to the question at hand, "how wide at 15 off", I believe that 6-12' is fine. I am absolutely a wide gate guy. There is painters tape on the gunnel of our Malibu so the kids can watch to see if I hit my mark.

 

Even so, at -15 you can be so wide that it's out of proportion with the set up of the course. As long as you are wide enough and have the correct water speed to make an early turn in building to the right hand gate ball you should do well. I totally disagree with being on the buoy line at the longer rope lengths, but really... 12' wide is way out there.

 

 

[Kavan]

I think it totally depends on what foot forward you are, because a right footed skier can take a narrower gate vs a left footed skier. The righty has the ability to create more angle and speed that direction. Where as a left footed skier needs to have the extra width to allow for more time to generate speed though the gates to set up for a early one ball.

[MillerTime38]

I have never missed a pass and said "I had too much width if I was a little narrower I would have ran that"

Getting a wide gate is only going to help your start to the pass, it will never hurt.

 

 

[jhughes]

A nice tight line with the ski settled in and ready to turn is more important to me than anything else and I can work with my pull through the gate to compensate as needed for angle at my level/lengths. Generally. There is nothing worse than being out in your glide realizing you've got nothing to turn in with and your pass is going to be over before it begins. I also think something repeatable and consistent is key regardless.

 

FWIW I look at the rope on the motorbox in my pull-out. This keeps me open to the boat, keeps my eyes in the game and my brain doing math on the course because I'm giving it the full picture. My eyes and brain are seeing the boat, the gates, 1-ball, etc. before I even initiate the turn-in. Learned this one from Lucky L. "Don't look at the buoy line, look at the tow bar in the boat, it's always the same".

[Wish]

I think my daughter holds the record for distance wider then 246. At long line she is almost 90 degrees to the boat. She actually gets free of the pull and glides. Only thing of concern is if the shore is far enough away from the course at tournaments.

 

I agree with the not caring about distance wide but rather concern myself with getting free of the boats pull. Shorter the line, further up on the boat I go. If the top of the pendulum is a certain degree up on the boat at ball one, I need to be at the top of that pendulum when I turn in for the gates. I never look down the buoy line anymore. What's the point. If I'm checking, at that point there is nothing I can do about it. Eyes locked on gates the second I pull out for the glide and never see anything else till I pass them.

[6balls]

@webbdawg99 DUDE!!!! AWESOME!!!!

[Razorskier1]

@webbdawg99‌ Stud! That is serious man skiing right there! Good job coaching @OB!

[Than_Bogan]

To be honest, I don't really think about my start width until things start to get "hard." Not saying that's good practice...

 

But I'm very glad for this thread. Due to various issues and minor injuries, I have only attempted -38 a handful of times this season, and I hadn't been nearly focused enough on starting wide enough. This morning I was waaay below 100% after an entire week of insomnia, and indeed it took me 2 tries to run my opener and one more for it to not completely suck. But later in the set I got what was probably my best -38 gate in almost a year, and carried it to "probably could have gotten 3.25 if I'd been dumber" despite pulling like a total wuss.

 

So, forehead slap: Width is important! :)

[Spesh]

I may be wrong, but I try to ski with the same width through all my shortenings. The natural geometry means that this should make you higher on the boat as the line gets shorter, which to my mind would generate the angle you need to get across course relevant to the line you are on.

 

Or am I way off here?.....

[Chuck_Dickey]

@Spesh‌ Not that I will ever get there but there come a point where you run out of rope length and even at 90 Degrees up on the boat, it just won't reach buoy line.

 

I'd be curious to hear Nate Smith or Chris Rossi chime in on gate pull out width from their perspective.

[BRY]

It's better to think in terms of angle rather than width.

At every line length you will end up with a different width, and at even just -28 you can't get to 12'+ wide. Getting up works at every line length, nothing to relearn.

You need to get up on the boat, but not as far as possible. It is possible and not that hard to get past 90, where you are farther up but starting to come back in. I have been told by a couple coaches not to go to 90 as there is 0 pull from the boat there, essentially slack line and the boat runs while trying to pick it up. Getting way up there is good though, 75-80 degrees.

Now if I could just get to 80, with level shoulders, with tension on left arm all on the same gate...

 

[gregy]

@Bruce_Butterfield‌ and other shortline skiers. I was watch some pretty good M1 skiers at Nats. Seemed the better they were the wider they got. At times there was a noticeable head/tail wind, do the shortline skiers make any adjustment to width for this or is mainly changing the pull out.