2015 Nationals

[jdarwin]

I just received:

 

To all,

 

As of today it is official that we will NOT – repeat NOT – be returning to the San Marcos River Ranch (SMRR) for Nationals in 2015. It is imperative that we scour the country for a new site and very soon. We have shown that it is possible to conduct a very acceptable national tournament on a two, three or four-lake site and reap a nice profit for the LOC. Now is the time for anyone who has talked, or even whispered a consideration for hosting, to step forward.

 

Please talk with any and all about the possibility of being a host. Before I lay prostrate before Charlotte M., I want to be very sure that we have exhausted all possibilities across this country. Please spread the word. Time is of the essence since this is the time of the year when we should be negotiating for hotel rooms.

 

Please let me, Gordon or Bob Crowley know of any possibilities.

 

Bob Mayhew

[teammalibu]

I vote for Lakes at Cypress Hill best 3 lake site ever and the best hosts!! Sorry David!!

[ForrestGump]

Dwest just passed out in his cheerios, @teammalibu

[Horton]

Bell Aqua ...

[jdarwin]

WPB most likely.

[Wish]

+100,000,000 for WPB

[MattP]

West coast would be fun for my 1st Nationals. @Wish you just want to drive!

[skidawg]

CYPRESS, CYPRESS, CYPRESS!!!!!!!!

[GOODESkier]

@Horton‌ BAKO?

 

Hope it will be my first nationals as well. Regionals are a 5 hour drive, so that part is easy this year. 7 hour drive in 2016 so I am good headed there as well! Can't wait to see where I will be heading in August 2015!

[Wish]

I need it to be on the cheap. WPB Okeeheelee is just a short drive...sorta. Plus we have been there often enough to find all the fun stuff to do outside of the Nationals and make a weekend out of it.

[Horton]

@GOODESkier‌

If all you care about is skiing conditions Ski West may be the best 3 lake site in the country. Mirror flat water or 5 mph breeze all afternoon, every day, all summer long. You want fair conditions for every skier in the whole event Bakersfield is where Nationals should be.

 

I would not bet on any site in Bako doing Nationals in the foreseeable future. Last time it was here the quality of skiing was overshadowed by a fiasco with the official’s hotel rooms and the lack of amenities on site (no grass & not much shade). Furthermore Bakersfield is not really a place to visit for anything but skiing.

 

Nationals needs to be in a vacation destination city, perfect skiing conditions, and be put on by an active club who understand the unwritten rules of Nationals. The list of problems and pitfalls of hosting Nationals is long. It is really amazing that anyone is willing to do it. I would hate to see WPB own the event year after year again because that is discouraging to the rest of the country but maybe it is the only option.

 

[Horton]

@wish what about skiers in the rest of the county?

[Wish]

Meh..

[MrJones]

@Wish. That's funny!

 

I agree with Cypress. They could do it and probably do it well. (Short drive for me too) If not, WPB is always good. A 14 hour drive, but conditions will be great and I like to eat at Duffy's.

[9400]

Nationals has unwritten rules too? ....maybe someone should write them down.

[kstateskier]

What are the "unwritten rules" of nationals? Are these anything like the "unwritten rules" of the Big Dawg that state if you're not riding a Goode ski you can't ask for a reride, ever?

[Edbrazil]

Maybe time for the Nationals to come back to the Eastern Region! Hasn't been here since

1973 Petersburg, best as I remember. 1964 Webster, Mass before that. And a couple of

events in Laconia, NH: 1954 and 1959.

[disland]

The contract they use is based on a business model that no longer exists. The host site takes all the risk and the upside profit does not justify the risk. They need to go to a model where the host site gets paid a fixed lake use fee. USAWS should be responsible for staffing, managing volunteers and running the event just like they are doing for the US Open.

[ForrestGump]

I can't see Cypress holding nats. There are just not enough skiers or families. Although there are 23 lots, only 1/3 are active in skiing. I would love it. Just don't see it as logistically possible.

[MrJones]

On top of that, there is no space (that I can think of) around Cypress for parking, etc.

 

 

[MattP]

Cypress will be hosting the 2015 NCWSA Nats last I heard.

[thompjs]

@disland -- You are correct there. The number of volunteers (grunt labor) is tremendous.

Many sites have the water, but not the people. Plus financial risk

[MrJones]

You know, this ties into a recent thread about potential changes for nationals. I guess the question should be "does nationals serve a need in it's current format?".

 

It appears that hosts don't find it attractive from a work or financial standpoint. Many people bring up the cost of travel and time away from work. If you are not expecting to have a podium finish, you may have personal vacation spots where you would like to go other than where nationals are held. If you are chasing a national title, it honestly makes it hard to relax and enjoy your time off work if it is in a nice vacation spot because you are stressed about getting practice rides, etc.

 

I am not "anti Nats" by the way. Just thinking out loud.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

It needs to come to the west coast, been to long since it's been here! Bell Aqua or ski west some of the best sites in the nation hands down. Never have to worry about weather, no wind, always sunny and warm.

[ForrestGump]

@mattp you are correct. Cypress will hold '15 collegiate nationals.

[ripa38]

@disland has summed it up well. I was part of the LOC for 5 Nationals in BAKO and we did not do very well financially. That was despite a lot of hard work from club members. I think I was the only member that actually skied in the Nationals from the host lake. The other 36 members lose the use of the lake for a week, work very hard and gain very little financially to put back into the club. If someone (USA Waterski) wanted to lease the lake for a fixed rate and host the tournament I think it would be way more palatable for our particular group.

Horton is right, we have consistent and awesome conditions for skiing, and three lakes that are all connected. You can watch three events simultaneously. We have heat("but it's a dry heat") and dirt as well. I have visited a lot worse.

[Horton]

I am sure I am only scratching the surface on unwritten stuff….

 

For the host club most the money to be made is from selling practice rides. Practice at Nationals is notoriously mismanaged. The driving may or may not be decent. Skiers beware.

 

The current model for Nationals evolved when AWSA had 2 or 3 times the membership.

 

The current model for Nationals evolved when clubs where a “thing” and had enough members to shoulder the work.

 

For many of the officials Nationals is a “vacation” week. I am not sure it has ever been officially said but they are actually owed a nice hotel with a pool and a bar.

 

It is always farther for Florida skiers to fly west than it is for California skiers to fly east.

 

Sorry to be sort of negative but the conversation needs to be seeded.

 

[GOODESkier]

INT model seems to fit the "rent/lease" and staffed by INT volunteers coming to the event. I did a summer of INT and INT US Championships before diving into the AWSA scene out west.

 

Doesn't seem right that just cause you are a sr. official/driver that it would be an all expense paid vacation. I know that wouldn't be my motivation to getting AWSA Certified, nor my expectation. This is basically a pay to play sport unless you are the top 2%...........

[Kelvin]

The largest single expense for running nationals is putting up the officials in the mandatory 3-star hotel. In some parts of the country, the hotels are more willing to deal with you than others. For WPB, mid August is the off season, for SMRR the city is a destination year round and the hotels weren't dealing.

[The_MS]

Most of the event judging is done by people needing to upgrade from Reg to Sr or just plain like to volunteer helping out. There needs to be a change.

[disland]

They need to throw out the current model and start over.

 

Staff drivers and judges from the skiers, Only the chief dr, judge, scorer etc get free rooms.

 

I would be happy to be a judge if I knew I only had to do one or two events, not be there for 5 days or whatever. And no, I dont need a fancy I am a judge t-shirt either.

 

Dont try and use the same drivers to drive the whole event. Anyone with a Reg rating who volunteers can drive. Of course try and put the best ones in the boat for open, boys 3 jump and so on. Same thing for judges and scorers.

 

USAWS should run the event. Those people are paid right.

 

The host club should get a lake use fee and agree to staff things like parking, run the banquet, that sort of thing, and thats it. USAWS does everything else like sponsorships, marketing, TC, site set up , managing officials and so on.

 

I am glad they are doing the US Open again. Now they know how to do nats too, its the same thing only more skiers.

[thompjs]

When we had Nats at Lago in 2002 and 2003 just staffing coolers for judges and controlling parking is a lot of people and work. @disland your list is a good start though.

 

[Booze]

Why did SMRR bow out?

[klindy]

Unfortunate that SMRR has decided not to host the Nationals next year. I will say again publicly as Chief Judge this year the site, HOA, all the volunteers, anyone affiliated with SMRR did an outstanding job. It was the biggest tournament I have ever been CJ for but it also was the easiest.

 

Part of the reason was the officials. First we had an excellent officials coordinator who did take volunteers and generally had "extra" names available if we needed someone in a hurry. @MS‌ you are incorrect this year. 100% of the officials used for tricks came from the Appt or Assogned officials. I'll estimate 2/3's for slalom and at least 1/2 for jump. Generally, all the "critical" positions - BJ, video review for slalom and at least one of the two measurement officials for jump - were Appt or Assigned. In fact I had several judges tell me afterward they weren't used after they volunteered (perhaps another problem - certainly some balance is good)

 

The disadvantage of having no appointed or assigned officials identified before the tournament is advanced planning. I would hate to walk on site the first day and "go find people". It's hard enough if you only need one or two.

 

Also I think the officials meeting before the tournament starts helps a lot. At least as CJ can be assured that one (usually several more) people know the site peculiarities and expectations for the tournament. There were several, generally minor but important issues that I expressed this year that would have been impossible for people coming from all over the US to the site for the first one to know.

 

Finally anyone in charge of assigning judges will first approach people they know. I get around quite a bit and I'm sure I walked past excellent, qualified officials all day long that I've never met. Maybe we DO need an "I'm am official" t-shirt that anyone volunteering needs to wear all the time on site.

 

All that said, I agree that big changes can be made. We don't need that many officials if we could count on volunteers. Maybe one Appointed judge per region and vary the Assogned judges based on expected needs. I not sure I completely agree with those appt/assigned judges looking at nationals week as a vacation since they ALL need to remain on site from the beginning to the end. Incidentally I stayed onsite the whole tournament as did several others.

 

On a multi lake site I also think it's important to have assistant CJ's. Someone needs to be "in charge" at each lake. That could be assigned on the lfly by event but again knowing the site issues and expectations (for example, what kind of issue should the ACJ call the CJ to resolve - there are a few!).

 

Generally I completely agree with @disland that the model is broken. AWSA (technically AWSA runs the tournament not USAWS) leasing the lakes may be a good option. There may be others that work too.

 

In terms of practice this year, I heard lots of positive comments. I know several that drove a LOT (including @TFIN‌ ) the entire week. As a general comment I'd agree bit I do not believe that was an issue at SMRR.

 

In terms of format, I also think there is a LOT of room for improvement. I have several thoughts but this post is long enough....

 

My $0.02

[The_MS]

@Klindy Just remove Tricking from nats.

[Horton]

Ha

[klindy]

@MS good idea. We'll add wake surf since that seems to be the most popular thing now. I'm sure that'll inspire a lot of sites to jump at the chance to host after the figure out they can "wash off" the first 50' of shoreline around the whole lake.

[MrJones]

I received an e-mail in regard to whether I would volunteer to judge. I responded saying "yes" and gave the events that I could work as I had 3 kids skiing plus myself and had a lot of dad duty. No e-mail back saying "you work this event". When I checked in at nats I asked if there were judging assignments posted. The lady I asked said no. I figured I gave 'em several chances and quit worrying about it.

 

We could make the thing a "C" and not stress so much about it.

 

As for practice, this was the best nats I have ever been to. With my first child skiing on Monday and me on Saturday I had no choice but to hit the practice lake. Good driving every time I was there. Hats off to how they ran that.

[klindy]

@MrJones‌ thanks for volunteering (multiple times)!!

[RichardDoane]

A class C for Nationals would be fine with me, as long as the driving is good. Put different colored t-shirts on officials, Red for an Asst, Blue for a Reg, Green for a Senior, make it more about the skiing, and try to do it in the middle of the country if possible. Nobody in their right mind wants to go to a Nationals and "work" all week, but most skiers don't mind helping while they're on site if asked. I'd like to go back to Bako, or Bell Acqua would be even better.

[Edbrazil]

Now that the US Open has been revived after 7 years, the management at AWSA/USAWS appears

to be willing and able to change things. Hope that applies to the Nationals. Maybe it is time for

the event to come back East! In my memory, last time was 1973 at Petersburg, VA. At one time,

the Nationals was the premier event of the year for regular people, like me.

[rawly]

Ski West would consider having it. Would have to be voted on by the membership and would most likely pass. I'm sure this will be discussed over this weekend. As stated earlier , the INT model would be ideal. Our club would make a small profit without the risk of a low skier turnout.

[lpskier]

@Edbrazil‌ 1952 Nationals in Lake Placid.

 

[GOODESkier]

@rawly‌ and if it was at SKI WEST, I would get the chance to ski with you!

 

@Edbrazil‌ and @lpskier‌ Having grown up in New England and working at a summer camp in Northern NY only an hour from Lake Placid......... I think I would choose SKI WEST over Lake Placid for the ski conditions and probability of weather. However, if I was looking to go on vacation, Lake Placid is a GREAT SPOT! But as a skier going to Nationals, I think I want the best most level playing field.........

[Horton]

@rawly‌ you sell it to the Ski West board and I will personally pay yours and @Wolfeie‌'s entry fee

[ripa38]

Horton your money is safe.

[Horton]

@ripa38‌ I know

[ALPJr]

I like @Edbrazil‌ idea for the northeast - somewhere along the Boston - NYC - Wash DC corridor. Could it be held at reasonably close multiple venues with a central meeting place?

 

How about Newberry Springs with Las Vegas as the host city and shuttles running from the strip to the ski venues, with clinics and exhibitions on Lake Mead?

[Horton]

@ALPJr‌ drunk?

[GOODESkier]

How about we all submit video of ourselves running 38 and let an internet crew judge based on the best spray? We could get discounted hotel rooms for the judges in Dayton, OH and save all the travel costs and boat gas................I don't drink............