Where is your Vapor front boot set? How to get off the rear leg in the turn?

[cragginshred]

I know a lot of skiers ride the Radar Vapor here. I am curious where you place your front boot; center hole, 1 click forward or the farthest forward position? A ski coach advised me to place the boot all the way forward to utilize the rails, and another said that may actually cause the skier to sense he is too far forward resulting in a shift to your rear foot. Which is best to promote a balanced stance in the turn?

[skialex]

@cragginshred why don't you use manufacturer's numbers? Measure from the heel of the front boot to the end of the ski and put it at stock. I know it is difficult to decide where to measure from on a Radar boot compare to classic rubber or hardshell boot but I think under the heel stitching is a good place to put your measure (someone who's using this boot might know better). Start from stock and then decide if you need to go forward or even backward. Also a good idea is to use a microjust or something like that to allow smaller changes, to me a whole hole movement is very big of a change. Go half a hole or less each time.

Good lack,

Alex,

[skinonstop]

Mine is as forward as it will go and it works well for me. I was having similar issues, currently 31 inches from rear of boot to tail. The best way is just try it forward.

 

[The_MS]

When I tried to make the switch a few years ago, I had that issue. Last year I tried just the front Vapor and left my Wiley rear on the ski and it works great. In my case, it was the back boot causing me issues when I was on double Stradas.

[Horton]

A 67" Vapor should have the front binding between 29 3/4 and 30". If you are far outside this range I think you need to reassess the core issue.

 

Generally speaking if the tip of the ski is significantly high & the bindings are close to stock => binding placement is not the solution.

[Chef23]

You need to measure the distance from the tail. Unfortunately there are no standards I used different holes with Radar boots on D3, HO and Goode.

[cragginshred]

@Horton yes core issues exist!

[Ilivetoski]

@horton If tip is high and bindings are close to stock, what is the problem?

[mikegile]

I run mine neutral - Strada bindings on Vapor - center holes.

 

Be careful moving too far forward as you can lose width/space. Ski starts to initiate the turn too early and hinders carry.

 

Bend your knees!

[Ilivetoski]

@Mike Gile What is "too early" as long as you dont turn before the buoy (which is not easy to do), dont you always want to be turning earlier therefore closer to the buoy?

[Horton]

@Live2ski if ski is set close to stock issue is skier : -/

[mikegile]

There is a difference between turning early and creating space before the bouy. I believe when the bindings are "too" far forward the ski wants to shut down it's outbound direction too soon. As the ski changes edge you lose width and carry down course rather than carrying wide.

 

I struggled with this for quite a while. I moved the bindings forward a click and it felt great. I moved them again and it felt great as well. More stable and powerful feeling, but I was not getting the width I needed, especially when the line got shorter. I was getting frustrated because I felt good, but was struggling in the course.

 

I got a piece of coaching from Aaron Larkin who caught this. He had me move my bindings back to stock and it freed me from the boat and I started skiing better.

[cragginshred]

One of several remaining core issues is now that I consistently skiing -28 the lack of early edge change/outbound direction is sending me fast into 1ball and even faster into 3 ball.

-Learning to come off the pull edge change but stay on the handle

-bend knees and **not go to the rear foot as a braking mechanism in the turn

 

I will get it set back to factory and keep you all posted!

[Ilivetoski]

@horton I understand its the skier but what would the issue be causing tip raise? 1st thought would be too much weight on back foot, but could it also be handle control? I think I remember reading something from Rossi saying carrying the handle to the buoy pulls you up and over your ski

[Ilivetoski]

And everything I have heard has been that people should run their bindings forward on the Vapor because of how flat the rocker is in the front of the ski.

[Horton]

@Ilivetoski

The "cause" could be one of many things but the result is too much back foot pressure.

 

When I have talked to @Swini and @Chris Rossi about Vapor I have never heard that that skiers run bindings forward. They would know better than I would.

[MattP]

@cragginshred Which size Vapor are you currently on and what are the current boot settings you are using?

[cragginshred]

@MattP 66 with Strada size 8 boots.

[Horton]

@cragginshred where is your front boot?

[cragginshred]

@Horton now it is in the center hole. I had it all the way forward, then the past 3 weeks 1 hole forward, now it is back where I began last summer and what I was told by Perfski folks is factory -center hole

[Horton]

@cragginshred middle hole is often but not always correct. it is always wise to measure

[ToddL]

FWIW, with Sequence plate, sz 10 Green Vapor boots on a 67" Vapor Lithium, the middle hole was exactly at stock settings. I could see how variations in insert placement or a different size front boot or single plate could make the middle hole end up not at stock. Always best to measure to be sure.

[cragginshred]

66" with separate plates size 8 boot - is it 29 1/4" ?

[ToddL]

Measure from the lowest stitch line on the heel of the front Strada/Vapor boot to the tail of the ski while the rear boot is temporarily removed.

 

Per: http://www.radarskis.com/#!-/skis (click on Vapor Lithium, then locate "Vapor Fin" link at the bottom right of the window)

 

66" 29.250"

 

Full Settings for 66" Vapor Lithium Per Radar Site:

Front Boot: 29.250"

Fin -

Length: 6.870" or 6.875" (Rini)

Depth: 2.480"

DFT: 0.750"

Wing: 9 degrees

 

Rossi adds: "if using a rear toe loop binding, move boots forward an additional 1/8th" and DFT an additional 0.005. He continues that in Cold water (below 65 degrees) the same holds true; and he explains that if a rear toe skier is skiing in cold water, then double that.

 

Note: Perf Ski site has different settings posted:

2014:

http://www.perfski.com/Waterskis/Slalom-Skis/2014-Radar-Lithium-Vapor-Slalom-Ski.html

2015:

http://www.perfski.com/cart.cfm?cart_action=item_info&category_guid=fcea1f45-e388-4236-b492-8ea5a19a5e11&item_guid=ac43d46a-5056-8800-781c-502429584f40

[countymountie]

I'm running 30.75 with a RTP on my 68" Vapor and haven't found any negative issues such as excessive turn in or lack of stability. I need to work on getting into a stacked position and getting my COM forward.

 

Would straightening / locking my back leg help?

On dry land it seems to force me to put more weight on my front foot and be more upright.

[Fine409]

I just picked up a new leftover 2014 67" Vapor, and after measuring it, it looks like the fin was setup to Rossi's numbers:

 

67": 2.475, .755, 6.880

 

Seems like a lot of you guys are starting out with Rini's settings (at least for a starting point). Do you guys suggest I update to those or should I give it a rip with Rossi's and go from there?

 

I have ~2 months of waiting for the ice to melt so plenty of time to think this over :)

[Jordan]

If it's already set-up to rossi's numbers, why not start there?