Baller ozski Posted February 23, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 23, 2015 A quick glance at the numbers tells me that the Carbon Pro is a fair bit lighter than my LXi but whats the advantage of less weight? I would have thought there would be an ideal weight for a tow boat (I have no idea what that is) I'm posting this thread because a comment was made to me a couple of weeks back about the new Carbon Pro being too light and weight had to be added... The comment was made by a driver I have a lot of respect for. I would have thought distribution of weight would be the primary consideration in any tournament boat design, less weight does not appear to be on the radar for the big 3 as things stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 24, 2015 Administrators Share Posted February 24, 2015 @ozski at a time when all the boat designers want smaller wakes, better fuel consumption and better performance - weight is the enemy. I missed the thread you are talking about but I have never heard of a boat being too light. I do know that top drivers often add 50 or 100 pounds to the bow of some boats to change the way the boat steers and tracks. I have also seen Tommy Harrington move weight around in front of the engine box to get a boat perfectly level depending on the weight of the passenger. I have heard rumors of boats that were manufactured in such a way that the go down the lake cockeyed. The correction is to add weight to one side of the boat or the other. I have not heard of this sort of thing with the Carbon Pro. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think there may be some truth to that @Horton? There are a ton of Prostars on my home lake, and all look very cockeyed to the driver's side when it's just a driver cruising around. I always assumed it was just due to weight of the driver and the shape of the hull, but I don't notice it when a Nautique cruises by with the same set up. I don't know what to think about it, it's just a visual thing I've noticed. Even when I was a little 98lb middle schooler, I would make our MC lean a little to the starboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jedgell Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think that's the reason the Nautiques have a RH rotation prop, to counter the torque of the engine so the boat rides more level with just the driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dacon62 Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Nautiques have a RH prop rotation. This directional torque maybe provide a bit of "lift" to the starboard side while underway at skiing speeds with only a driver. The 2002 Nautique I have driven still listed a bit to starboard with me driving solo at 185 lbs. Never been a fan of RH props for docking or picking up a skier cause the boat pulls the wrong way in reverse. I think all other boats run LH prop rotation. Our TXi needs 50 lbs on the passage side to run level with driver and passenger. I would be in favor of a lighter boat. If it happens to need more weight to improve tracking for short line you could easily add weight. For the rest of us mortals a lighter boat equals a smaller wake for the longer line lengths : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Nando Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Dacon62, the RH rotation is indeed intended to counteract the driver's weight and was "traditional" from the days of wooden runabouts until fairly recently when the need to reverse marine engines' rotation from the automotive standard must have seemed unnecessary. I always thought that MC's ballast system to balance the boat was one of their best features. I once offended a very portly boat judge by bringing in ballast from another boat to set it up level- they guy wouldn't talk to me for the whole event, and it was a long one- he was just so pissed that I could hardly keep a straight face the whole time :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ah, that makes sense! After years of running MC's, it was strange at first going to the RH rotation of the CC. I now way prefer it. RH rotation seems a little safer, pulling the stern away from both at close range. Plus, it seems a lot easier to dock...at least for me. I've seen "novice" MC drivers slam the stern into the dock many a time...one of them being my father:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 I thought mastercrafts had some sort of spotter ballast built in them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted February 24, 2015 LXI 2800lbs TXI 2900 CP 2100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 @ShaneH might know, but I believe there are a few different ways the manufactures measure the weight of boats. I thought the PS was promoted as lighter than the Nautique when it came out. Fluids and some other parts are not taken into account @E_T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 24, 2015 Administrators Share Posted February 24, 2015 Gross weight is a big deal but consistency of weight and consistency of weight distribution seems as important. Boats are made with wet layup of glass and resin so it is pretty easy to screw up and make one part of a hull heavier or lighter than another. Sadly ALL of the slalom boats are made in factories with wake and surf boats that need to be as heavy as possible. You tell a factory worker to not worry about a few pounds all day and then when he gets to the ski boat you tell him every pound matters. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MarcusBrown Posted February 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted February 24, 2015 Carbon Pro 2,100 lb value is the weight of the Carbon Pro without an engine/tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dacon62 Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Was gunna say...2100 lbs for a boat that is near identical in dimension to a 2500 lb Malibu LXR. Something seems off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Has to weigh more than 500. A chevy longblock weighs around 410lbs and then you still have to add the huge manifolds, accessories and the trans. I'd be curious if anyone has ever weighed some of these boats. Malibu claims that my VTX weighs 3500lbs dry, and that weight has to be 500-1000lbs low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MarcusBrown Posted February 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted February 24, 2015 engine & tranny weight is 1000 lbs. +/- 100 lbs or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BRY Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 From this spec sheet seems 343 engine + tranny is just under 1000 lbs. My understanding is the 409 is slightly lighter. I would guess all the power packages used in these boats run about that weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BRY Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 try again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BRY Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Interesting as that makes it: ProStar 3,000 lbs http://www.mastercraft.com/boat/detail/prostar Response TXi 2,900 lbs http://www.malibuboats.com/boats/response/response-txi.html Nautique 200 2,850 lbs http://www.nautique.com/models/ski-nautique-200-closed-bow Carbon Pro 3050 (2,100 + 950) http://www.centurionboats.com/carbon-pro.html Essentially no significant difference in weight behind the current four AWSA boats, with Nautique possibly the lightest? Who woulda thunk! IMHO these four all ski better than any of the previous generation boats. Track better, hold speed better and better wakes. Want a smaller, lighter boat? Gekko has a great boat, mid 30K out the door. Interesting to see how many pony up. Gekko seems like a good company and committed to 3 event boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Remeber to add in the weight of 20gal or more of fuel. I do know MasterCraft does have one of the best systems on the production line of weighing the huls to make sure they are close on fiberglass and resin weight. I make them all consistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted February 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted February 24, 2015 @ozski: lighter weight results in a smaller wake assuming consistent pitch attitude as the hull will displace less water when lighter and require less lift force while running. Lighter will be better for wake but not for stability. A heavier boat will offer more stability and resistance to side loads which is also where the fins and rudder will also come in to play. Balance is also a very important aspect as noted in several posts above which is controlled by hull shapes but also overall weight can / will affect sensitivity to list. Marcus is very close on package weight, an old iron block Merc is ~875 lbs fully dressed and a 71 C velvet drive is 95 lbs dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 24, 2015 Administrators Share Posted February 24, 2015 @E_T typo? Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Why would Centurion list the boat weight without an engine? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted February 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted February 24, 2015 What @swc5150 said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted February 24, 2015 To bolster the perception that a substantial amount of carbon fiber is used and has a significant impact on it's weight? The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 @horton no typo there. these are not the words you are looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 I agree @MISkier, but it sure seems shady to me. So a customer would not know the truth unless they inquired? I don't want to sound too negative, but that really bugs me. People make decisions on tow vehicles, boat lifts and trailers based on the weight of the boat they're buying. Plus, here in WI, we have to title boat trailers if the boat is over 3,000lbs. It's not cool to advertise half-truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 24, 2015 Administrators Share Posted February 24, 2015 @E_T you are now building boats at MasterCraft? Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 @horton i have Mastered every Craft from flying bicycles to building boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bishop8950 Posted February 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 24, 2015 Sitting with Crawford now, actually measured a CP at 2850 with the 6L and 2900 with the 5.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andy Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 @jedgell, sorry for the off topic, run a way finger while scrolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Roger Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 In the Carbon Pro we used during the last tournament season at Okeeheelee, we used only a 50lb bag that could be moved to make the boat level (side to side). I don't think any more weight is needed in that boat. In 2013 MC we would put a 35lb to 50lb weight in the nose and it helped with tracking, but the 2014/15 does not need this (IMO). The only weight we use is for side to side balance just as in the Carbon Pro and Ski Nautique (if needed). In the last tournament of the year, I pulled Nick Parsons to 3 @ 41 with the Carbon Pro, if more weight had been needed, that set would have told me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 Those numbers don't make sense to me. I don't see how a TXI is heavier than a 200. The 200 is substantially larger and feels much heavier when you drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 25, 2015 Administrators Share Posted February 25, 2015 Little birdie who really knows => tells me all the current slalom boats weigh almost exactly the same. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BRY Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 Boat Length Width Draft CC200 20'0" 95" 22" LXI 20'6" 93.5" 22" Prostar 20'0" 96" 23" C-Pro 20'1" 91" 27" @Chef23 seems the 200, Prostar and LXI are similar sizes, the LXI slightly longer and slightly narrower. Carbon Pro notably narrower and deeper. I think the dimensions are close enough to be insignificant regarding weight, all essentially the same. Engine packages essentially same weight and similar rigging for windshield, seats and so forth so insignificant weight difference. Feel on the water another story. All the bottoms way different. 200 and Prostar both much "dirtier" so more drag, feel "heavier" and initial year propping issues for performance with 5.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bishop8950 Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 I also talked quickly with Will Bush who has a good read on the weights and he said they are all pretty close. He rattled of numbers and I didn't capture it. Basically a few hundred pounds swing at most. Sounds like the "fitness" of the boat crew and amount of gas in the tank will have more impact on total weight than boat model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GregDavis Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 After many years of racing motorcycles, and weighing them, DO NOT BELEIVE EVERYTHING YOU READ, FROM MANUFACTURES SPECS. Must weight them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller andjules Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 A bit off-topic but one of the guys we ski with has a late 90s Moomba Boomerang with Perfect Pass. It's not roomy, nor comfortable, nor well-appointed. It's also about 2000lbs. Even with a 3-blade prop and a sub-300hp carb'd engine, it'll nearly rip the handle out of your hands if the driver hammers the throttle. More importantly, the wake feels like you're cheating, it's so small. Even more so for the slower-speed & younger skiers in the group, who'll practically beg to go behind that boat vs all others. And if I recall correctly, I think he bought it about 5-years-used for $10k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GregDavis Posted February 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 25, 2015 I worked for Master Craft in the early 80's ( at Factory in Tn. ) We weighted many boats, Rob, was adamant about keeping weight to a minimum. I'm 99% sure the 81 or 82 MasterCraft was about 2100. With 240 HP, and a gear reduction, and 2100 lb. boat, the pull was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancin4 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 CP has no carpeting so in use...may be much lighter and fuel tank holds 22gal (usable.) Interesting that weights are that close. What about the LX Bu? Seems to be a very "small" light hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted March 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted March 24, 2015 I have a Malibu LX. I recall the weight to be 2450 pounds. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted March 25, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted March 25, 2015 I would have thought weight distribution is equally important to total weight. I've just added weight to the nose of my LXi on the advice of @Chad_Scott and its improved the boat a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted March 25, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted March 25, 2015 If adding weight to the nose of boats helps tracking, why not add it at the factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inland Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 @ozski did you add 50#? Considering the same for my LXI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inland Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Sorry for the OT post, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted March 25, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted March 25, 2015 IMO, my experience skiing behind weighted boats is that they hurt the ankles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bbirlew Posted March 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 25, 2015 @ms, Re:why not add the weight at the factory? I'd imagine that many people have at least 50lbs of tools/anchor/life jackets /paddles/etc up in the bow. If the weight was built in, big lake skiers who have to carry that stuff in our boats would then have too much up there... I'd guess private lake skiers don't have all that stuff with them at all times... You can always add weight to help things (or balance the boat out based on crew) but you can't remove it once it is in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted March 25, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted March 25, 2015 So the factory team tests the boats with 50lbs in the front? I have never seen a factory recommended weight addition in any owners manual. My point is that it may be good for the driver but not the skier. Ask Lucky about the weighting of the boats at the 2008 BD finals at Lake Hancock and be ready for lots of #$$%&&^^%%$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 25, 2015 Maybe they do it since a lot of boats get ordered with a second battery? That is good for around 48 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted March 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 26, 2015 Do DD's now days get ordered with a second battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 26, 2015 Likely not most, but when we were out looking last year I saw a couple TXI with the dual setup like my VTX has. More likely purchased by people who use the boat for more than just back and forth. Battery Set-up Option 2 is the dual battery switch with Perko. Quick search only found a few of them http://www.skierspier.com/New-Inventory-2015-Malibu-Boats-SkiWakeboard-TXi-Waterford-Michigan-778023 http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Malibu/Response+TXI/Ste-Agathe-Des-Monts/Quebec/5_18382909_20080623072716171/?ms=boats http://www.reachoo.com/ads/245918482 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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