The state of water skiing in the USA from the BallOfSpray perspective

[Horton]

AWSA membership is now well under 10,000. On the west coast, tournament attendance is at an all-time low. In the last 10 years the number of tournaments has also plummeted in the west. These facts are indisputable. Competitive water skiing is in the worst condition of my lifetime.

 

BallOfSpray’s Google Analytics data paints a different picture. Before I state the numbers you have to understand that BallOfSpray is barely a grain of sand on the beach that is the internet. The only people that read this site are interested in water skiing enough to search the internet to find a web site about it. The casual water skier does not spend a lot of time on the internet reading the latest news and goings on.

 

In the last month BallOfSpray was visited by over 50,000 unique visitors*. In the last year nearly 6 million pages have been viewed. California accounts for almost 9% of the unique visitors in the US even though the state is in severe drought. Texas accounts for 7% and then Florida, Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan, and Washington all account for 4% to 5%. Water Ski Mag subscription data shows a similar distribution.

 

What does any of this mean? If BallOfSpray has at least 5 times as much readership as the AWSA has membership how do you interpret that? I believe this shows that water skiing is much healthier than competitive water skiing.

 

Additional BallOfSpray info: Traffic in terms of page views has been plus or minus a few percent for about 4 years. Over the last 12 months traffic is up 3.66 % over the previous 12 months. I assume weather is responsible more than half of that variance. Most surprising for me is that new members are joining the forum at a much higher rate than previous years (I have not calculated a metric).

 

*Unique Visitors is not a perfect metric but it is an accepted standard. I cross check all my stats with server statistics reports and the forum software reports. No matter how I rehash the data => the Google data always seems to make sense.

[rodltg2]

So what this means to me and the way I feel , is that the current format is not working . USA Waterski is not attracting new members or holding on to the ones they do have . I myself did not renew this year , but I may so I can ski a 1 tournament. Yet waterskiing is growing. Someone needs to get there heads out of their ass's !

[Skihack]

There is really nothing that can be done. Too many outside factors. Number one is Money. Skis are 1500 to 2000 dollars blank and the cost of boats going to 60,000 next year. I really don't see the sport coming back unless alot of cable set ups start popping up around the country. Competition skiing is way too expensive! There are alot of qualified skiers not attending to Regs and/or Nats. There are even some that could get on the podium that aren't going to Regs/Nats, now that one I cannot figure out!

 

[Horton]

@rodltg2 I am not sure the sport is actually growing.

 

Get in some events and then come to the Cash Prize. That format will not save the sport but I believe it is a step in the right direction.

[disland]

I watched the cross fit games on TV this weekend. Here is a sport that didn't even exist as a competitive sport 15 years ago. I couldn't help think of the parallels to competitive skiing. Why are they able to grow so fast and have such an enthusiastic following. I am a former high level competitive strength athlete. I was way better at that than I am at skiing. I enjoyed it, but skiing is way more fun.

[MattP]

@disland there are not lakes in every shopping center like Cross fit gyms.

[disland]

@MattP Of course, but they do a lot of really good things to promote the sport that Waterskiing could learn from

[rodltg2]

Either way the current format sucks in my opinion. The only reason I attend or ski in a tournament is when they are held at my home lake. We ski at at discounted rate, so I see it as just another ski day. I rather ski than sit on shore all day.

 

But at my level ( m3 PB 4@28 in a tournament), I know I cant be competitive. I'm not about travel to other sites, pay $60 for maybe 8 passes to be assured last place. It really isn't fun for me.

 

If read over an over about on this site about holding grass roots or different class tourneys , but they just aren't happening.

 

USA Waterski is insane? "It's often said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

[MattP]

@rodltg2 Is your goal in skiing tournaments to win or to compete against yourself, your goals, your PB, and chase your practice PB? Along with testing your mind and body in conditions when it comes to skiing heads up against the rankings list? The way that the RL works these days you really are skiing in trials and the only tournaments are States, Regionals, and Nationals.

[disland]

@rodltg2 did you see the BOS handicap tournament???

[disland]

Some interesting ideas from cross fit, that could be applied to waterskiing

 

1. team competiton

2. unique events (remember 38 off spin it to win it) that was cool

3. Open qualification- the first round of qualification takes place at your local gym. with local judges. Everything is posted on line. You see where you stack up against the whole world. You can do your open workout any time you want during the test window.

[Horton]

@MattP everyone does it for their own reason. There is no right answer.

[DW]

Interesting data. Further analysis on other sports might paint a similar picture. Perhaps as noted by the media is we are all becoming more addicted to electronic devices at the expense of actual participation and your data supports that premise. Additional analysis as to why people don't compete would be interesting, I can envision several reasons why: access becoming more difficult, costs rising, much less marketing and visibility of the sport, many alternate options, events not as compelling compared to other sports (time competing v. time waiting at event, solo v. team aspect). Additional challenge, it is pretty much an invisible sport.

[Skihack]

I know this perspective will piss alot of folks off! But I believe it contributes to the decline of the sport. You have a young G3 skier who skis OW in the big events then skis in G3 in the Regionals. Come on now! What do the parents want to do here? Beat the crap out of the other competitors? I have no problem with pushing a high level skier to ski against the best, that's the way to push the skier to get better. But to return back from Open to ski in G3 is not cool man! And while it may be good for that individual, it doesn't nothing for the sport, in my opinion.

 

[MrJones]

Agreed that we are in bad shape. The onset of kneeboards, skurfers (remember that), wake skate, etc. has really hurt. Anything that can be done in rough water with only a boat is hard to beat.

 

From a competitive aspect I believe the demise of the water ski club has really hurt us. 25+ years ago when I started I was able to afford it as a 19 year old. $480/yr for club dues including boat payments. A $400 Connelly that I rode for 2 years. Also the time on water vs. down time wasn't much of an issue b/c you could find a ping pong or pool game in the boat house any time you wanted. Same thing at tournaments. Horseshoes, basketball, and beach volleyball games were always going on when you weren't skiing. Tourneys were 3 rd/3 ev over 2 days so as a slalomer I had plenty of time to fill. I don't remember it being an issue.

 

Now a lot of skiers have either dug their own lakes or moved into water ski communities. The cost of entry into these is a lot more than what a normal 20 yoa can handle. Nothing is really surprising to me here...

[Horton]

@Skihack not the biggest problem but I agree

[Ilivetoski]

I talk to a lot of skiers who are avid skiers but won't compete. When I ask why they say "there is no way I will win". Think about how our sport is different from sports like football or basketball. It is almost impossible for me to go up against Nate smith and win. Why not make more tournaments handicapped? In basketball and football upsets happen regularly but in skiing because of how it is scored you will never have a skier from a much different ability level beat a seasoned skier. Also why not dedicate a couple of days a season to skiing at a public lake every year? Everyone should be able to get our of their backyards for one Saturday. Let's stop talking about what should be done and actually do something. At this rate, there wont be a tournament scene when @MattP and I are 40 or 50.

[escmanaze]

I guess I'll speak up as somebody who might be seen as "the problem" here. I'm a lifelong skier, I got addicted to the course 10 years ago, bought my own boat 3 years ago to be able to run the course more often, and yet, I've never skied a tournament, and frankly, I'm not sure I have any interest in doing so.

 

I think the picture painted above by Horton is that skiing is healthy, but tournament skiing is anemic. Shoot, here in Utah, we are in a drought, and yet here we are with another private lake opening up soon and our club wait list seems to be as long as it's ever been.

 

Is it possible that our sport can be healthy without a healthy tournament market? I think so. Snowmobiling in the west is as popular and healthy as it has ever been, however, I don't think it's related at all to the hill climb circuit. 99/100 snowmobilers I meet have never "competed" in snowmobiling. They are, nevertheless, addicted as can be, and not leaving the sport any time soon even in spite of the fact that the mfgs want to charg $15k for a sled these days. The same thing goes for mountain biking. I only even know one biker who competes, and I know a lot of mountain bikers who spend a lot of money on bikes and spend a lot of time on their bike.

 

I guess my question is kind of this: Why do you guys think it's so important to have this healthy vibrant tournament scene? Lots of sports do just fine and grow very well even without the organized events and everybody and their dog attending them...right?

[Stevie Boy]

Money! it cost Money to ski, grass roots is where it is at, if the colleges could run a league and webcast it, or get some sort of coverage one evening a week.

Even if you start the dollar calculator, at the point where somebody has just got to stand on a mono ski, how many dollars later are they going to be at a standard where they could be competing at a reasonable level.

 

Your average Joe is working hard to cover every day costs for his family, on top of that the kids want all the latest gizmo's and clothing to keep up with their peers, so that they remain kewl.

 

For me the only way you are going to increase the entry levels into the sport would be cable setups, only one problem there, the young dudes want to wakeboard at the cable parks not participate in the discipline of slalom water skiing

[Stevie Boy]

Just remembered, here in the UK we used to have Inter Club Competitions, these were several clubs that were a reasonable distance away from one another, that got together and run a series of competitions, bit like a mini league, it encouraged people to compete on behalf of there individual clubs, there was no officials required just people who knew the rules, people from both clubs would judge, generally it was kept light hearted and friendly with costs kept to a minimum.

[Horton]

@escmanaze

 

Without the tournament part of the sport there are no standards. There would be no speed control. There would be no rules. There would be no standard anything. The rules and standards provide the yardstick we all use to measure our success or failure. It really is an individual sport. I ski against me but I want to know the balls are the right size and in the right place. I also want to know the boat is going the right speed.

 

If there is a good jr scene on your area tournaments are a fantastic experience for kids.

 

Competition drives skiers to look for an advantage and that drives ski sales. Ski sales drives product development and that means we get better gear. It keeps the ski companies alive.

 

The tournament scene is a huge social factor

[DonT]

so as I read this thread @escmanaze touches on things that I'm also pretty close to. I used to race road bikes - only to find that as I age, and my time for training decreases, I become less competitive. Do I want to pay $$ to get dropped off the back. So I ride both mountain and road to get my biking fix, and stay involved in the biking community by being a race official. That being said, I'm now interested in raising my level of water skiing - but not sure how in Utah to get to the "right" people that can help me. Sure I'm on the wait list for UWSC, but (and it's to a degree my own fault), I haven't been able to link up with the right people to help me progress - I know technically my skiing is a mess...but I'm willing to learn. Then perhaps I'll try a tournament or 2 - but I do love to ski, and like getting up early on Saturday to go out for a full pulls at Utah lake, and judging from this last saturday - there are others like me. At one time we have 4 boats or so pulling a skier in roughly the same area.

 

So my rather long winded take - at least here there are a few people that enjoy skiing, competitively or not.

[6balls]

Tall order. I could have skied a tourney this weekend but...

 

I skied 2 sets at the swamp on Saturday. On Saturday I got a lot of things off of my "to do" list, and pulled my son and his friend knee boarding, swam from the boat with them, and later pulled my daughter knee-boarding. Went to watch community ed theater that night as my son played in the pit band.

 

Sunday I skied two sets at the swamp, worked on a consulting project for two hours. Then my daughter learned to wake board and shortly thereafter to wake surf. My wife and I parked the boat on the calm side and drifted in the wind for an hour in the sun listening to music and jumping in the lake when we got too warm.

 

Grilled out and then played cards with my wife and two kids laughing our butts off.

 

Nice weekend. Didn't get the plane up in the air and it's been too long. Didn't get to the gym or play any tennis with my daughter. Didn't get to the go kart track with my son or out for hot wings with my son. Didn't work in any barefooting. Didn't fly down to Iowa and see my Mom. Didn't go out to dinner with my wife...but I could have gone to a tournament.

 

Will hit the skiwatch fall double.

[MrJones]

I can't imagine not doing tournaments if you are a course skier. If I didn't ski tournaments, I wouldn't ski. For me it's the adrenaline of going out to try and perform against a set of standards as Horton mentions. This isn't just at "placement" tournaments either. I get that rush going off the dock at a class C with just the normal crew around. I guess it's just different strokes...

[rodltg2]

Also not to mention tournaments are so BORING!

[Horton]

@rodltg2 no. Say it is not so.... Ok you are right.

[gregy]

Water sports has splintered off in to so many subgroups. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s skiing was about it. You skied, tubed. Skurfer I saw in magazines for a long time but didn't see a lot on the water but. My brother and I would bring surfboards and pull behind the boat but even then our primary recreation was water skiing. Even Jet skis were stand on top and they took some time to learn to ride, some skiers I knew people who had Jet skis but skiing was still the primary activity it centered around was skiing behind a boat.

 

Now you have whole sub groups that do nothing but Wakeboard, Wakesurf, jetski, etc. One of my old ski buddies is now kite surfing and spends a lot of time and money doing it. Cost of entry into wakeboard or surfing, I mean you could buy a lot on some private ski lakes for what one of those boats sell for and still have money to buy a good used ski boat. It would be very uncomfortable to ski behind a wake or surf boat. Yet the boat manufactures sells are in the multi-millions every year. We did it all with one boat, a glastron for many years. We had a ton of fun with it.

 

Then you have pontoons, those things are ridiculously expensive and involve nothing but cruising around the lake and drinking. There selling a ton of those things at 75K to 125k range. Your very unlikely to do any kind of water sport behind a pontoon.

 

Point? is I wonder if you looked at water sports / users as a whole now and compared it to watersports back then if the numbers would be that different.

[gregy]

By the way I learned to ski at 5 years of age. First tournament I skied in was at 19 in college. Except for seeing the occasional Pro tour tournament I didn't know a tournament scene existed and I believe I was in the majority on that.

 

My interest in skiing had died some but was rejuvenated thanks to the college team. And that was the only time I went to a tournament with any concern of being competitive.

[skidawg]

tournaments are not boring if you are 100% involved in the process, long and tedious, but the fellowship is a large part of why I still attend, (that and my kids love it). On a high note, our SCR regionals had almost 20 skiers in the Boys @ slalom event. That is the highest number I have seen in quite a while.

[aupatking]

We had 100+ people at local tournaments on the causeway off Mobile Bay when I was a kid. I went to the Malibu Cup in Tuscaloosa a couple weeks ago. Besides Nate's family, my friend and I were the audience. Everyone else was skiing, or in some support role.

What are the industry numbers on ski sales? How is it that everyone you meet says they have skied/do ski and none of them have any clue that competition skiing even exists? Has the private lake scene killed skiing? Is there a way to get the general skiing public back to competitions? Some of it is that event is not an event anymore. Like @MrJones said, we have nothing going on but the rent between rounds. It doesn't have to cost much. A basketball goal or a volleyball net are pretty easy to set up. Music on a PA? Simple things to make the few people who are showing up happy to stay and hang out. Both my wife, and a couple guys who are waaayyy better than me wives say the same thing, the events are worse than dentist appointments for spectators.

Those are all separate ideas/issues but they have to be addressed

[rodltg2]

Sites like villa Lagos that have a wakeboard / wakesurf lake and a ski lake should be the future. Combine the tournaments. Activities for kids , bar for spectators and Big Party to cap it off !

[The_MS]

70 plus skiers at the Minnesota State tourney this past weekend.

[aupatking]

There was no food, no drinks, and no equipment vendors of any kind in Tuscaloosa. Me and my buddy bought 4 tshirts from one of the 2 tshirt vendors, to support someone. That and they gave us a beer. There were 2 porta-lets, at a far end of the lake. I know the main event was to take place at the river the next day, and I REALLY DON'T want to pick on anyone, or any tournament, but we had to leave to get food. Those things have to be a part of the tournaments. I'm gonna buy a food truck, volleyball net, and some big speakers and call myself ski event entertainment services

[GOODESkier]

Big Dawg Broho DONE RIGHT! After qualifier rounds on Saturday, the lake was opened to any kid that wanted to ski! My 4 yr old duaghter and 6 yr old son both skied. GREAT EXPERIENCE! It doesn't always have to be all about the tournament, allowing family, friends, and kids to ski before or after is GREAT! Thanks to Lee Johnson and @richarddoane for thinking outside the box to make family skiing breed the next tournament skier!

[chris_logan]

I had some time to contemplate this issue during much of my downtime at Southern Regionals over the past 4 days, to which a few key questions came to mind:

 

Why is it so important that tournament skiing stays alive in the current format?

 

Should tournament skiing actually die, what pushes innovation in the water ski market (boats, skis, ropes, handles, vests, etc.) if there is no proven performance in competition?

 

To what level does the water ski market exist outside of competition?

 

Of course it is about money, to an extent, but what we need to not lose sight of is that the social aspect of the sport plays a huge role in the existence and availability of the sport to newcomers.

 

*hat tip to @Horton as I didn't refresh my 1.5 hour old page prior to writing my comment.

[Hallpass]

The problem is not unique to waterskiing. There is a swimming pool in every neighborhood, and it's not a particularly expensive sport, yet the number of competitive swimmers is down. Participation in Little League, baseball and softball, is down over 20% since the 90s. Tennis is another sport where numbers are way down. There are hundreds of explanations, and lots of research papers have been written.

 

Three of the issues that I see as pertains to waterskiing are:

 

1) The trend toward specialization in sports amongst kids. By the time kids are 5 or 6 years old they are being told to pick one sport. Unless your family sport is waterskiing, there's a good chance you will have little to no exposure to waterskiing before you get out of College.

I worked for a wealthy CEO who had all the access in the world to boats and lakes. His kids had never skied, or done any water sport for that matter, because he didn't want them to get hurt and miss their "chosen" sports of Baseball and Softball.

 

2) There are dozens of sports, and pseudo sports, that just didn't exist, were not competitive activities, or were not popular 20 or 30 years ago. Think about it: triathlons, ultra marathons, lacrosse, tough mudders, wind surfing, kite surfing, kayaking, paddle boarding, rhythmic gymnastics (who came up with that), competitive chearleading (are you kidding me), bikini fitness contests (sometimes nice to watch, but a sport?), hundreds of varieties of martial arts competitions, adult kick ball leagues, wally ball (seriously, wally ball), team handball (an Olympic Sport), curling (any game you play with a beer in your hand is not a sport), on and on. Heck, competitive eating is now called a sport and pays better than competitive water skiing. Competitive poker gets more air time than any of the sports in which I participate. All of these sports or competitive activities draw from the potential pool of water skiers.

 

3) Be honest, water skiing was always a fringe sport. Growing up in the 70s, I looked forward to the two or three times a year that skiing would appear on Wide-World of sports. Here in Northern California, where I grew up, we had the LaPoints, Suyderhoud, and many others, not to mention Golden Gate and Berkeley Ski clubs. Still, few of my friends knew much about water skiing. Today, the sport has been further diluted with competitive wakeboarding (boat and cable), wake surfing, wake skating, knee-boarding (though I think that has died somewhat), not to mention other water related sports that don't require a boat such as surfing, kite surfing, paddle boarding, etc.

 

My $.02.

 

BKH

[Texas6]

@skidawg - I agree completely. My son ski'd in Boys 2 SCR on Friday and they had 17 kids in his age group!! 17 is a good number and I was fired up to see that many kids ski. But then we only had 10 in M3 on Sunday, I ended up having to leave early and dropped the number to 9.

[escmanaze]

I understand what you are saying @Horton but I feel like the tournament scene could shrink to 5% of what it is right now, and we would still have people throughout the nation skiing the same speeds, same size courses, same size balls.

 

Basketball doesn't need a healthy local recreation league scene in order for me to get together with some guys and know that the hoop needs to be at 10 feet. As long as the NBA and college are playing at 10 feet, the rest of us will follow. Translated, as long as Regina and Will are skiing XYZ size course and XYZ size speed, our club here in Utah will follow for our recreational practice sets up and down the course. For the standard setting you are looking for, I'm not sure we need much more than one tournament per year where the best of the best compete. The rest of us can all just follow off of what they do there.

 

As far as R&D, that's just money. Radar & Goode will choose to invest in R&D for whatever they think they can sell. It doesn't matter if I'm taking my ski to my local club lake on an evening or to an official sanctioned tournament, Radar will do the R&D if they think it will help the ski sell more.

 

You mention that it is an individual sport, and I agree, and I think that is the reason I feel the way I do. I quite frankly only care about how well I am skiing in comparison to my past scores and I couldn't possibly care less how my skiing rates against some other stranger who happens to be in my same age group.

 

Keep in mind, I'm an outsider, so maybe there are things I don't understand yet about the sport that I will more as I get into it more. Nevertheless, my thoughts seem worth sharing so that some of you "insiders" can know the kind of mindset that you are up against.

[gregy]

@hallpass we played baseball a few months out of the year, in a local league. I have friends that there kids play year around and travel all over a several state area. To me watching baseball is just as boring as watching a ski tournament.

 

I remember one year I didn't play little league because it was cutting to may bass fishing time to much. I did enjoy playing baseball, and skateboarding, basketball, waterskiing, BMX, fishing. We definitely did a lot of sports back then.

[swc5150]

These stats don't really surprise me. I've touched on this in other threads, and of course just from personal experience. I see just as many people skiing now as I did as a kid growing up on public water. I know numerous skiers, many even attack the course when they can. Not one of them competes or has any interest. There's also no shortage of slalom boats, both old and new, on our local river and lakes.

 

I do hope the tournament scene doesn't dissolve too far, as it's that scene that incentivizes ski companies to improve their high-end lines...and continue to make them. PP and ZO have been great additions, but I'm assuming would've been in vented for wakeboarding regardless...ever try to hold speed manually in a slammed tower boat? HARD!

 

I'd love to enter a tournament one these years, but time has just not been on my side. And I can't make time with my schedule. I'm lucky to get in good open water skiing at night these days. Rest assured though, I'll buy new skis, ropes, vests and boats to help keep this sport rolling.

 

[Cayman2]

This sport needs to embrace the glandular nature of life. Adrenal and testosterone. Wholesome family is good, but, ask any bar owner giving away drinks on ladies night, the boys go where the girls are. Right now, the girls are draped six or eight to a barge watching the boys wake-something. Time goes by, some of the boys and a few girls get hooked on adrenaline and stay in the sport.

 

My wife's hatred of tournaments goes back to when she was my girlfriend 35 years ago, and remains unabated today. Hot, no shade, gotta pee in a porta potty, BORING, nobody to talk to except raving lunatics, and takes all day, typically in some backwoods swamp miles from a mall. Plus, odds are I'll fall on my opener and be pissy all day. And, no way to predict when I'll actually ski so no way to be surgical about timing. Gee, can't see why she doesn't love it.

 

Until we figure how to get the mating dance back into the sport, it'll keep shrinking.

[swc5150]

BOS being as popular as it is also doesn't surprise me. It's the one place where a non-tourney guy like me, who is still huge into skiing, can talk skis, technique, boats, etc. There are a lot of us out here, and BOS welcomes us.

[Horton]

@swc5150

This may not fit every non-tournament Baller but I think of the readership as a few tournament skiers and mostly skiers who aspire to be higher level skiers.

 

NOTE – those of you who post are only 00.25% of the readership (roughly).

[Than_Bogan]

"nobody to talk to except raving lunatics"

 

and that is EXACTLY why I go to tournaments.

[Bulldog]

Ball of Spray is so popular because @Horton has worked incredibly hard to make it the go to place for waterski information. To attract new blood to the tournament scene the elitist attitude of our sport has to stop... too many skiers think they are the bomb and want to tell everyone how special they are. We need more actual fun tournament events with crossover activities (music, food, etc) to attract new blood.

[Stevie Boy]

So why do thousands of people go to a football game or even worse hundreds go to watch golf tournaments, lots of people wander around in the heat knocking a little white ball around, oh and if you miss you get to hit it again.

[Cayman2]

@Than_Bogan: rem atu tetigisti. Or something like that. I forget.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

My brother is into bicycle racing now. I've gone to a few of his races. I think pretty much all the spectators were there because they knew someone in the race, but there were a lot of people in the race. The type of race where they go around a "track" (e.g. street block) is pretty fun to watch because the racers go speeding by you every few minutes. I don't think my brother reads or participates in any online cycling forums, but he races frequently and doesn't have to travel far because there are a ton of races going on through the whole season within a couple hours drive.

 

My brother is the athletic one in the family and I think he would compete in ski tournaments if he had regular access to a course. I'm planning on getting a portable course within the next few weeks and will be interested to see if that affects my brother's interest in the sport and in potentially competing. However, driving to the public lake, setting up a portable course, hoping other boaters don't come by and mess up our water, and taking the course out when finished is a lot more hassle than getting your bike out of the garage and riding right from your doorstep.

[eleeski]

@Bulldog We all think we are "the bomb" and want tournaments to be a place to show off. Somehow we need to give more people the opportunity to show off in tournaments. Fun tournaments are a huge part of that.

 

Eric

[Than_Bogan]

Ya know, I always hear about the "elitist attitude," and I can't recall seeing that even one time. People treated me pretty much the same when I showed up to my first tournament and ran a few buoys at 34 mph as they did at the same site a couple weekends back when I posted the best score at 34 with 2@38*. If anything, they were even nicer to me at that first one!

 

*Therefore, I am the bomb and more special than anyone else! :wink:

 

It's gotta be present somewhere, because people keep bringing it up, but I'll ask everyone not to let the less-than-1% population of dickheads taint their impression of the other 99%!