Another US Nationals idea

[Horton]

I know this will never happen but…..

 

Why not two Nationals events? One 3 round slalom event and one for 3 event one round overall event?

 

God love the trickers and jumpers but outside of Florida and a few pockets round the US - trick and jump are as relevant as knee board and barefoot. I bet there are not 25 jump ramps in the entire western region. Why do Wester Regional slalom skiers need to 3 event Nationals? The same in other regions?

 

Don’t get me wrong the most prestigious national title of all is (should be) Overall. The problem is most of us do not live in that world.

[Than_Bogan]

Barely on topic, but you got me wondering: How many jump ramps are there in New England? I can think of three: Wolfeboro's back bay (NH), Oakham MA, and Avon CT. I guess there must be a few more somewhere? @Edbrazil ?

 

Anyhow, I think a 3-round slalom Nationals would be VERY attractive for me personally -- I'd probably make a real effort to attend every year. But it would bum me out to not even get to watch the top trickers (and to a lesser extent jumpers).

[Cayman2]

Just schedule it. First 2 rounds are sl only, lumped into three days, other three days are two event using last round of slalom?

[klindy]

That's actually an interesting idea to consider.

 

There are other sports where the "nationals" (or whatever the premier event of the year might be called) is actually part of a longer event which offers other opportunity to particulate. For example the Nationals as we know it today could be a 3-4 day tournament inside a 7-8 day long event which would include other tournaments/events all focused on traditional waterskiing. Simplifying it like @Cayman2 suggested might be good if the site is willing.

 

I suspect to happen however the current business model would need to change from its current format.

[ALPJr]

@Than_Bogan ramps at Nipmuc in Webster and SCRRA in Oxford.

[Cayman2]

And, run the 2 rnder as turn and burn. Twice the pulls in about 1.25 elapsed time.

[Cayman2]

And run the two event (apologies to eleeski) with alternating trick/jump. Keep the spectators interested and hanging around for tricks.

[Horton]

As long as I can leave after Slalom if I want....

[eleeski]

@Horton You can't leave. You have to ski MM tricks.

 

Good fundamental idea. No complaints from this tricker.

 

Eric

[Horton]

Wow

[JWebSki]

@Than_Bogan there is one in Charlton MA

[LeonL]

About jump ramps. We have 4 in KY alone. @Cayman2 the turn and burn was brought up around here last week as an option for regional and/or nationals. There is a lot of pressure to perform a one and done as opposed to jump. Why not have slalom be turn and burn? Keep your first shot if it suits you and if you want to turn and burn you have to start back at the missed pass and go from there. No start from original starting pass or previous passes, so it goes pretty quickly. I think more skiers would got to nationals if the MOP possibility was lessened.

[LLUSA]

Gosh @LeonL we've only got 7, and ten years ago there were 3 in Tuscaloosa County

[Kelvin]

All 10 of the ski lakes in the Houston/Austin/San Marco area of Texas have jump ramps.

[Chef23]

The only thing to consider is many of the M3 & 4 skiers have kids that multi event. If what @klindy suggested would work then I could see it making sense. Assuming I qualified I wouldn't be able to bring my son to one event then go myself to another.

[klindy]

One suggestion I had this year that didn't get a lot of traction was to hold a second 2 round (at least) 3 event tournament during nationals.

 

The idea was to layer a tournament into onsite practice. You'd pay your practice fee and walk up (sign up) to ski. When it was your turn you'd tell the boat regular/senior judge in the boat) if you wanted your score to count. If so, your score was whatever you ran straight off the dock. Minimum 4 passes so of you fell the rest of your set was just practice. If you ran 4 passes you keep going until you miss. Score gets recorded and you carry on. You'd be able to ski 2 rounds (or 3) whenever you wanted. Jump and trick would used the tournament lakes after the day's nationals events were over.

 

Obviously a few rules exceptions required. The idea was to allow those who didn't qualify a chance to ski if they wanted too. And for those who did ski nationals to have another couple rounds. Since the cost was a per skier practice cost the club breaks even.

 

It was a simple idea I thought would at least allow folks to get wet a bit more. Of course you could just practice multiple times too if you so desired.

[RichardDoane]

@horton - we were talking at Regionals about the possibility of a slalom only Regionals, and a 3 event Regionals, the thinking was how many more potential sites (those with no ramp, like Broho) could then offer to host a slalom only event, in WA state I can think of 6 ramps : Borderline, SkiPark, Rainier, Tate, Mint, and Warman Lake all have jumps, and 8 other sites without

[Kelvin]

@klindy I like it!

[klindy]

@Kelvin no reason a club couldn't propose the idea now with s few rules exceptions to handle the logistics.

[Chef23]

@klindy that is a great idea. Would it extend to parents that weren't qualified? I have been to Nationals multiple times and not been qualified to ski. I would be more likely to go if I could ski even though not qualified.

[jimbrake]

I know I'm alienating lots of ski friends, but I'm not a fan of lakes without ramps. I'm proud to ski at Bell Acqua in Sacramento, CA where you can see on Google Earth that we have three sweet lakes, with three well-maintained beautiful, well-used jump ramps.

 

I hate how we've gotten away from 3-event and are so slalom focused. And this coming from a slalom-only (now) skier. Am I scared my son will get hurt jumping? Yes, but he loves it. I love that he does it and we approach it in a very deliberate, small-steps, well-coached (by pros, not me) manner.

 

When I was 22 (in '80) I was jumping in the low to mid-120s and was ranked 20th in Mens I in the Western Region. What the heck happened to jump?

[Horton]

@jimbrake it is the world we live in.

[klindy]

@Chef23 my thought it was available for anyone, parents, skiers, club members, people from out of town who wanted to see the latest ski gear, whatever. Pay your fee and ski.

[klindy]

@Horton how do tut determine the Narional Champ if it's two tournaments? Does the slalom only tournament determine the slalom champ? Certainly there are strong 3 event skiers who would ski the 3 event tournament but would they also have to go to the slalom only event? Or would the slalom only score be their score for overall (plus trick/jump at the other event)?

[Cayman2]

@jimbrake I was a better slalom skier than jumper, but I only made it to nationals in jump. Love those three tries. I choke if I only get a practice session and a run on different water, dif boat, dif rope. My prob, nobody else's. But, that's why I don't ski much tourney since I quit jump. If the goal is qualify for nats, I'm not going anyway.

 

Jump is like rodeo: not many people die, but most all participants get hurt pretty bad. It was a riot and rush while I did it ( till 35). But now at 56 I wish I'd never seen a ramp. I have no problem getting a young person into slalom. But, Like you say, I'd worry a lot about a kid getting hurt if I got him into jump. My kid hate skiing so I never faced your decision. But, overall, I think that's what happened to jump.

[Than_Bogan]

@klindy Loving your idea more the more I think about it. I discovered this year that Nationals is actually pretty fun even if you're not skiing, so there's a bit of a draw there but clearly it's not enough. Perhaps also having an option for people to ski more would greatly increase the total number of attendees, including non-Nationals skiers.

 

I think a lot of folks might make a trip if they could do ALL of the following:

- ski two rounds (not necessarily in Nationals)

- See crazy-awesome skiing in OM, OW, etc.

- Wander the tents and learn all about the latest gear (If this could be combined with the skiing so as to demo new gear, the audience might grow to unmanageably large!)

- Engage in some kind of spectator-friendly "stuff" like food trucks or something even more interesting.

[Jweber]

We have a sport that is already dwindling in numbers, and now you want to split this into smaller, more specialized nationals. This doesn't make sense to me. Personally I grew up a slalom only skier, I started tricking and jumping later. I can't tell you how much more fun tournaments are once you start three eventing. If you have a bad slalom ride, oh well, 2 more events to think about now. The fear of getting hurt jumping, sure it's there, but how many slalom skiers do you know that have missed significant time from a slalom injury. You play hard in almost any sport an injury will happen at sometime. It's a lot easier to get burnt out on water skiing when all you do is slalom ski when you go to the lake. I don't think focusing on one event is the answer for our sport, and I challenge you only slalom skiers to strap on a trick ski or ride over the jump, you will probably actually have some fun. Live a little and add some variety to your time on the water.

[klindy]

@Jweber I agree it's a concern to "split things" even more.

 

I also agree that over the past couple seasons I've seen FAR more slalom skiers with ankle boots or other injuries than jumpers. Of course there are many more slalom skiers than jumpers too

[jimbrake]

@Cayman2 - I'm pretty similar to you. I jumped until I was about 34 (after a severe knee blow out when I was 22 and a lesser one two years later). 57 now and my right leg/knee is a sad reminder that I "manage" every day. But...I'd do it all again just hopefully in a much smarter manner, which is what I'm trying to do with my son. No "cut later, bro, and kick it". I did cut later. I still daydream about going back to it, then I get up from my desk to walk across the office and think "uhm, no".

[Nando]

Um, Horton, what happened to your trick renaissance? Gone with the unfortunate injury? I think I'm in Jweber's camp and would rather encourage more participation in all events.

[Cayman2]

@klindy I agree the outbreak of "slalom ankle" is noticeably severe lately. I believe the epidemic is due to aging skier population and the proliferation of non-rubber boots that are not subject to any industry testing or even theory of operation review. I don't think jumping got any safer. Very few old guys jump, and everybody that does jump (almost) uses very old, but well understood binding tech. But we're off topic here. So......over and out.

[Moskier3ev]

Horton, I rarely disagree with you.... But, it seems like a lot of the single event slalom skiers have a 3 event kids. I have always thought a B1- M1, G1-W1 3 day nationals in late July and then have a 3 day adult Nationals Labor Day weekend. Then we can look at #of rounds. Prelim & final? The system needs to change and the only way is through forums like this. (fresh ideas) But I am afraid if we split up we all lose.

 

Jeff Lindsey

[Jweber]

Cayman2 I would disagree. From the days of short skis and no speed control I believe jumping is now much safer. The old style was wait as long as possible for a hard quick turn, and have as much angle as possible out of the turn and then try and manage in the air with short unstable skis. With long skis your flight is way more stable, and now the style of the approach is a slow patient turn, start light on the rope and progress/build into the ramp. Compare some early 80's jump video to a current jumper, the current jumper looks way more in control at all times.

[Horton]

No proof I have ever ridden a trick ski

[Horton]

Seriously, for skiers who mostly care about slalom Nationals is an expensive one round tournament. For a 3 event skier it is a totally different experience.

 

The fact is slalom specialists way out number 3 event skiers.