POWER SHELL OR REFLEX

[RTHEIS]

I am thinking of switching from my Goode power shells to reflex bindings .Would love some input.

[jayski]

Smart decision, went from PS to Reflex w/R style, took a bit to get used, they seemed to translate skier input to the ski more responsively than the PS and a greater safety factor also

[Deanoski]

I see that will Asher is using a power shell with a reflex release.

[Ilivetoski]

MUCH safer than powershell. If a ski has tape on it there is no chance im getting on it.

[Ralph Lee]

I've heard several people say Will uses a power she'll with reflex release? I've never saw a picture of that.

[Than_Bogan]

If those are the only choices, I'd probably lean toward the Reflex, because I don't trust the consistency of Dual-Lock as a release mechanism.

 

However, if you are willing to augment a Dual-Lock plate with a some-think-hideous Gatormod 3, I then believe the Dual-Lock plate is considerably safer than Reflex.

 

Without a G3.0, the comparison is a subtle one. A Reflex is quite limited in the degrees of freedom it can release. I hate to go super-nerd here because of the risk of people tuning out, but to explain what I mean you kinda need some coordinate axes on the ski. X points to your right, Y points toward the tip, and Z points out of the ski toward your head.

 

In terms of rotation, the Reflex can really only release in "negative around-X" which in normal person terms means you are rotating toward the tip of the ski. A Dual-Lock plate can release in any rotation around either X or Y, for three more degrees of freedom: the new ones are "out the back" and canting off the ski toward either left or right. "Positive around-X" is especially valuable in the rare-but-dangerous scenario where the ski gets caught in the handle.

 

Neither system can release in rotation around Z ("twist out"), which concerns me, and is a big reason I prefer OB4.

 

The flip side of degrees of freedom is the danger of pre-release. It's arguable that a Reflex is less likely to prerelease because it won't release from the toe (when it's working properly anyhow). And I think the only legitimate safety knock on OB4 is the fact that, if it is not set correctly, it can have an unwanted twist-out release with max load on the rope.

 

If you're twice as confused now as you were when you first asked the question, then I've done my job. This stuff is complicated, and the data available is just about non-existent. Have to consider all this stuff AND performance, and then just go with your gut!

[skialex]

@Deanoski I have done that 7 years ago!

 

[RTHEIS]

Hey guys thanks for your input and the jury is still out

[slalom frog]

I used to use Powershells with Dual-Lock. For a couple of reasons I am not really a fan of that system. First would be that it is more difficult to place the binding back in the "correct" position after a release. Second, I had issues with the binding releasing in situations when it had not business doing so. I can tell you that it made for some spectacular crashes that we still talk about today! I have been on a Reflex system for over 5 years now and I am very satisfied with it. In my experience it releases when it should and it has worked very well for me.

[Deanoski]

@skialex how did that boot ski???

[skialex]

@Deanoski I carry the boot in my bag lately and after seeing Asher using one, but haven't tried it yet, I ski my best at the moment and I have tournaments coming ahead and I do not want to loose the magic!

I ski through winter so I promise to try it after a couple of months and report back.

[PatM]

Switched from the Powershells after an injury two years ago. Went to the Reflex and R-style rear with no problems. It feels weird that there is no upper cuff on your rear ankle at first but once you go through the gates everything was good.

[Stathis Ventouris]

Swithed from Powershells to Reflex 3 years ago due to achilles tendonitis issues with the back foot. Kept the powershell rear boot but modified to release like the R-system. No problem adapting to the change and no issues with the release so far (better than with the dual lock).

[daveok]

I've been on powershells for 10 years, and I just bought a pair of reflex just to mix it up. I like the powershells but I figured I'd try something similar but a bit different. I can't get my feet as close together on the Relex as I'm using a double setup. Its close but so far (it is winter) I'm not too favorable to the Reflex, I know its only been 2 sets since its so cold in the Northwest but I'm liking the release. I've used fogman, Fluid Motions, and only had tape release too early a few times and the 3m should be replaced every 6 months in my opinion. Any advice is greatly appreciated on switching from PS to Reflex.

[Horton]

Talking about boots -The Powershells are a lot softer. I think that is a good thing especially for the back boot. Reflex is going even stiffer with the new SuperShell. I am interested to see how skiers like it long term

 

Talking about the release - I like the Reflex method a lot more.

 

With both systems you need to spend the time to understand the release mechanics. If you know what you are doing and accept responsibility for your own safety these bindings are a good idea. If you think you can put them on your ski and not think about it, you may end up in the hospital.

[daveok]

I've been on lots of bindings, and the reason I went to the reflex it the release system. I have a ski-tech yes I'm old on my trick ski I put on my ski with a rear toe piece but it didn't work for me. I'm good with the release on the ski-tech, and Reflex seems to be an updated version. I have ruptured an achecllis in rubber boots years ago, and so I've been in every hardshell except the OB4, I've only seen one skier that system. I may just get another set of powershells, but I was thinking the harder shell is a good thing?

[daveok]

I have about 1/2" gap between my back boot toe and front boot. I have my front at 29 3/8 which is where my PS were. Do you know if you can have the rear buckle on the steel for the front, as its lower in the back but I want to go closer together, just seems the front foot connector is gonna be on the steel?

In case anyone has had this concern?

[gregy]

I went from double rubber bindings to Black Reflex w/ R-style rear, then to the Supershell front. The black top Reflex was a easy transition, bu even the largest size was a little too small for me. I then tried the Supershell and didn't like them at first. I went back and forth for a few months, finally ended up with a Intuition Aqua liner and really like them now. I also put a 3/16" spacer under my rear heel on the R-style which I'm like also.

[Ed_Johnson]

Spent over 15 years on Powershells...What a Pain in the A** to change out the Dual Lock every year. Also, every time I tested a ski I would go through $40 of Dual Lock. Had been using Reflex on my trick ski for over 15 years and worked really well.

 

Andy Maple told me to switch to the Reflex with R-Style Rear over a year a go to get more COM movement. When the Supershell came out I gave it a try. Holly Sh*t, Andy was right as usual. So much more COM movement available with the R-Style Rear, and the improvements to the Front Boot were amazing.

 

Biggest single improvement to my skiing ever. Plus the release system is so much safer with the R-Style Rear being fool proof. Totally recommend.

 

 

[aupatking]

I broke my talus on my left foot (front foot) in power shells. It was an odd fall where all the immediate release pressure was on the front foot. The power shell system is designed to release from the front or back, so forward pressure on the front foot will not allow the plate to release, as it cannot release from the middle. This is the same problem faced by any single plate design. The garormod is great for this very problem.

All that said, a year and a half off my ski, 2 surgeries and physical therapy later, I could not be happier with my Reflex and R-Style setup. It has saved me once already. @Than_Bogan did a pretty good (nerd) job of explaining the Reflex system drawbacks.

Either way, understand what it is designed to do, and accept the risk associated with your choice. Just make sure you're going in with the knowledge, and not trusting the ski company has built a safe product. What we do is dangerous, you know that, or you wouldn't ask though, right?

[BRY]

I skied Power Shells for a couple years and the velcro worked great for me. Stayed on when it should and came off when it should. I did replace all the velcro (Interlock 250) at the beginning of each season, only drawback to me for using it. Really worked surprisingly well. I did get a mild sprain of front ankle I believe was from PS's being a single plate system, not from the velcro. Kind of felt one foot holding the other on.

I have been on Reflex with R rear for 3+ years since. No issues due to the system. Did take a couple hard OTF from pre-release due to my failing to replace the spring at 2 years as Reflex instructs, went almost 3 years. Replaced and all good again. Stays on when it should and comes off when it should.

Both PS and Reflex ski well for me but I like the Reflex with R better. I feel I can get up over my front foot easier and cleaner. The Reflex is a little stiffer than the PS, White cuff seems perfect for me. Tried SuperShell which turned out too stiff for me, like skiing a brick with no touch or subtlety, had to have a sloppy fit for it to kinda work. So back to White cuff which seems ideal and safe. 6'1" 215 consistent mid -38.

[FLeboeuf]

I never tried the Reflex so cant compare, but I ve been on PS double boots for 3 years now with no issues at all. I love them. I was coming off of fogmans with wich I pulled my achilles tendon pretty bad once on an OTF. With my height and weight (6''1, 165 pounds) and with the standard amount of dual lock, they have always released exactly when needed and never when it wasnt time. I changed the dual lock once on the ski only. Plus the heel raise mechanism of the back foot has helped me preventing minor pulls of my achilles tendon and also helps if I need to put a little more weight on the front of the ski. I like the idea of having both feet releasing at the same time. Im pretty sure it saved my ankles a couple of time, but it has to release..

[RPT]

Hey guys thanks for all your input, I ordered new supershells from Miami nautiques and had them shipped to a condo in Bradenton Sarasota. Driving down from the frozen great white north and plan on trying the new ski and bindings at Swiss ski school. By chance does anyone play any pickup hockey in the Sarasota area??

[RAWSki]

Having tried to make the change to new boots and a new ski at once and failing "royally" ------I would suggest maybe trying the new bindings on your 'old faithful' ski first. Good Luck! Enjoy Swiss S.S.

[jrs]

@RPT I totally agree with @RAWSki you should never try new bindings and a new ski at the same time. Mount the bindings on your old ski and then expect to spend 3 weeks before you fall in love with them.

[RPT]

Yes I agree with you both, and will take both skis with me.

[Than_Bogan]

Yep, a binding change is almost always longer to get accustomed to than a ski change.

[RPT]

I went from a monza with animals to a 9900sl mid Goode with double power shells and loved them from the first set