Swapping front foot after Rib Injury

[Brad72]

First post here so Hi to everyone.

 

I have just got back on the slalom ski after a 20 year break and am loving it (i'm 43). For reference I ski LFF but wakeboard, skateboard etc RFF. Yesterday I was lucky enough to having some coaching by Joel Wing but during a deep water start my left knee put enough pressure on my ribs that I re-fractured or strained an old cartilage injury (3rd time is has given me curry). I managed to get up 3 more times, 2 with one leg out, but then the pain was too much and sleeping last night was very painful.

 

So my question is since there is a known weakness on that side of my ribs and essentially I am like a new skier with such a long break should I learn to ski RFF to take the pressure of the left side during starts (can't beach start everywhere)? I was told on the weekend that my front foot should be taking the most weight and I know that my Right leg is stronger than my left so in that regards it would make sense. I do however put my left foot into pants first and when pushed from behind the left foot leads.

 

Another thought is am I doing deep water starts wrongly and putting undue strain on my body. I have my toes just out of the water, arms straight around my legs and let my feet tuck towards my bum and my chest roll onto my front leg as the boat pulls then stand as I feel the ski flatten beneath me.

 

Thanks for any advice you can provide

Brad

[DanE]

Slightly off topic but since you mentioned putting your left foot first when pushed from behind, is that a good way of determining wich foot goes forward when teaching beginners?

Every beginner I tried that on puts their left foot forward and I do not think that is consistent with what polls show regarding the percentage between left or right foot forward.

Anyway, putting your left foot first when putting pants on suggests you have better balance on your right leg and judging from that rff should be the way to go.

[Brad72]

Thanks DanE, what you say makes sense. My right leg is certainly stronger than my left and after some thought last night when skiing LFF I do tend to have most of my weight on the back leg (strongest) which also means the ski tip is too high most of the time. If I swap to RFF which I did try a few weeks back am I to assume that if I bend the front knee so it is over my toes this will get the correct weight to the front leg, flatten out the ski and improve performance?

[gregy]

Since you wakeboard and skateboard RFF I'd say that's the way you should ski also.

 

I don't have my toes out of the water when I'm setting in the water and my leg never touches my chest. Its pretty close. I use double boots so both feet in. Weight on the front foot, don't stand up until the ski starts to plain out. I was on a Mapple 6.0, for some reason I had to put that ski down to just the tip sticking out. Hardest ski I ever had to get up on.

[Brad72]

Thanks gregy. I wondered if my knee came a little to close and then put too much pressure on my rib cage. Physio today identified some problems so hopefully only a few weeks off

 

I'l start skiing RFF. Felt odd a few weeks back but should only take a few sessions to feel more natural.

[OldboyII]

Looks like you are one of few who are very symmetrical both with balance and strength, thats why it is just a matter of time to change front leg.

[Brad72]

Looks like I'll be off the water for at least 4 weeks with this injury so will have to be patient until then. Will have to do some leg strength stuff till then

[OldboyII]

Tabata protocol helps a lot to stay in shape and be prepared for this kind of sport activity.

http://tabataprotocol.com/

Exhercises may vary to put more concentration on legs and back strehgth.

Though it turned out it is not that easy as it looks.

[ToddL]

@DanE - with regards to figuring out forward foot on beginners, another method is this:

 

Have the beginner stand very close to a sturdy chair or tall box or tall platform which will support their weight. Then ask them to very slowly step up. During the process of stepping up, the person is in an unbalanced state. Thus, the person naturally puts their balance foot up on the chair/box/platform to best stabilize themselves while stepping up. The conventional wisdom is that the balance foot goes in front.

 

The push from behind method can work too, but you have to be safe, centered and unexpected. I have tested a lot of beginners and can count on 1 hand the number of times that I got mixed results using both methods on the same skier. I have also had plenty of RFF results.

[gsm_peter]

@Brad72

 

A bit off topic but this might help you.

 

Today I realized that I have gradually change my starts to have less impact on my body.

 

It is a bit difficult to explain but this is what I think happens:

I make myself very small like a ball. Wrap my arms around both knees, 'hug both knees'.

The ski points to 10 o'clock (LFF, dbl boots)

The handle is close to bindings.

My but almost in in contact with the back foot heel.

The but then take most of the load and push the lower back leg/foot.

I do not feel that the load are on the ribs but I can not really tell.

This picture at least show that I stay low a long time during starts.

 

 

 

 

[Fast351]

The easiest method I've ever heard of, and only recently heard of it, is kick a soccer/football. That's your dominant foot and should be in the back.

 

As for deep water starts, I start double booted, and I tuck, but not real tight, then kick my rear foot down and most of my weight is on the rear foot until I'm up. Makes the boat work harder but stabilizes the ski.

 

Not saying it'll work for you, but it does for me...

[Ryno]

@Fast351 I agree with you assessment of dominant foot. But I apply it completely differently and put the dominant foot forward.

You can't compare the foot position of skateboarding, wake boarding or surfing to slalom skiing as in those sports, it's primarily the back foot that controls and turns the board.

In Slalom skiing your front foot controls the ski, and by putting your dominant foot forward you have more control over the ski and less of a tendency to have too much weight through your back foot.

 

However, this argument has come up on here quite often and the opinions are often opposed, so if you're not sure go with what's comfortable.

[DanE]

If you kick a soccer ball the hardest with your right foot your left leg is your supportive leg and should also be your front foot in slalom.

[Brad72]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I will certainly try pushing the rear foot downwards during starts as I know I am not doing that at present. As for for the foot forward I will try swapping to RFF and if feels awkward will revert back to my trusty LFF.

 

Here's hoping the rib cartilage heels quickly. Not an injury for the start of the season. Is there a vest that offers more support/compression than others to spread the load more evenly. I am currents using a Rip Curl Dawn patrol jacket.

[Brad72]

Forgot to ask, with starts should the head be looking down or up?

[Fast351]

I always look down slightly, mostly just to prevent water up the nose/in the eyes. Also exhale slightly through your nose.

 

[Than_Bogan]

Hm, I don't the soccer ball thing is a very good predictor. Nearly everyone prefers to kick a soccer ball with the same foot as their dominant hand, and the vast majority of us are righties. But in slalom it's about 50/50 and many righties ski left-foot forward.

[Fast351]

Well, the soccer ball trick just gets you your dominant foot (kind of like the unexpected push from the back).

 

Whether your dominant foot should be forward or back is a different topic altogether. I don't think there is a good test to what feels good to a person, except that beginner skiers steer with the rear of the ski instead of the edges like you're supposed to. That probably sets their "feels right" barometer.

 

I tried switching a few years ago. It took me a good 15 to 20 tries to get up and then it felt really weird. I tried for maybe a month before I finally said screw it and went back the other way.

[Greg Lukin]

@Brad72 - are you near brisbane? have you thought of competing in the qld waterski series? There is one at Lake Kurwongbah on 24/25 Oct if your keen? Its going to be my first comp actually and there are plenty of others in the lower divisions...come along and try it out!! it will be fun I promise

[Greg Lukin]

sorry I just read your injured - maybe come along for a look?

[Howa1500]

I throw and punch with my right arm but write with my left hand and my right arm is stronger

 

I kick with my left leg but my right leg is stronger and my dominant leg. I ski with my right foot forward but can successfully deep water start with both feet forward and get up on the first try. I'm guessing it's all about what feels comfortable? Would it make sense to have your "stronger" leg forward to effectively support all the weight on your front foot of the ski

[Brad72]

This is proving to be an interesting conversation showing that although there may be some standard methods to determine which foot is forward, it really comes down to what is most comfortable to the user through trial and error?.

[OldboyII]

Which foot is our front foot is probably has more connection with our brain setup which is conncted to what we received from parents.

I kick the ball with my right foot and Im LFF.

My friend hits the ball with same leg but he is RFF.

 

Whereas advise to push rear foot down during start is very much opposing to what I hear during my short water ski experience. When I do this tail of the ski starts plowing the water creating resistance which make deep water start nearly impossible. So I try to keep rear leg as close to butt as possible.

Although, in the second phase of start, when ski is alpeady in the plane mode I use both legs to stand up.

IMO.

[Brad72]

@Greg Lukin Lukin I am up in Toowoomba but will see if I can make it down. Got to watch Joel Wing and Brad Williams ski last weekend which was really good.

[gregy]

Is interesting. I do everything lff. Skateboard, surf, ski. Its comfortable for me. Whatever works. I actually paid attention to my ski getting up yesterday. I started with about a foot of the tip above water. Then as the boat took off I put weight on the front foot and tip went down to about 3" out of the water.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I always try to keep just a few inches of the tip out of the water and find that I get up the fastest and with the least pressure on my arms and back when I have most of my weight on the ball of my front foot while getting up. If I put pressure on my back foot while getting up I will drag more and get up much slower with much more effort. I did a bunch of experimenting this summer because I was trying to figure out how to give advice to a friend of mine who was struggling with getting up.