Gates gates gates

[wtrskior]

What's your secret to timing and posture, especially in a tournament?

 

I have my cues but I get anxious at times especially in tournaments and am often ahead in practice, which translatest to ahead in tournaments.

 

I moved to a 2 hand gate after years at 1 and if im scrabling now i often naturally default to1. Im more consistent at 2 when I'm on but A few gate otf''s backing off to make it through the gates at torneys.. Not fun, especially at a line you run 99%

 

 

[Waternut]

I might not be the best person to learn from because I always feel rushed and then always seem to be just outside the gates. However, if I can settle down and convince myself that I can cut in later, everything feels more natural. It's tough though because by the time I cut in for a good gate, I feel like I'm going to miss even the left hand gate and then the pass feels over with before I've even gotten to 1 ball.

[jhughes]

You foundationally need a repeatable gate plan from the moment you move out to the moment you roll in. It can be different for everyone but generally you will see good skiers moving out efficiently and directionally for about 2 seconds before standing tall and balanced in their glide, and this move out begins about 10ft before the boat enters the greens.

[ALPJr]

Look for videos of Mike Syderhoud Marcus Brown and Terry Winter on gates. There's also a great article out there by Drew Ross. Lots of thoughts. Find one that works for for you.

[mwetskier]

@wtrskior -your description of trying to go from 1 hand to a 2 hand gate could be my own story. this spring a couple of friends who do well in tournaments turned me on to a timing trick that is making a huge difference for me because its so reliable. its really simple too. i ride along just outside the trough until the right hand green 55 ball lines up with the 1 ball -i can see the 1 ball over the top of the boat wind shield and i pull out when both balls line up. if i make sure to pull out with roughly the same intensity every time i can easily tick off the seconds in my head while i glide by thinking ' 1 thousand 1 .... 1 thousand 2 .... ' etc. with a little practice i figured out the exact amount of mental counting i need before turning in to get through the gate every time which is something i could never fully rely on before. in the last 2 months i've only taken my outside hand off the handle 1 time and that was by accident.

[wtrskior]

skied this morning and ran up to my typical buoy count this year. my gates were all perfect. I was going too early out of fear of missing them in the tourament. I don't ski a lot of comps so the nerves got the best of me.

 

I typically pull out .5 to 1 boat length before the 55s and turn in when the 1 and left gate buoy line up, but was rushing it before. I need to be more patient like in practice!

 

thanks for all the words of wisdom!

[lcgordon]

I just think to myself. Wait just a split second longer than when I would think to go. If I do that Im perfect. If I go when I think I need to then im early. One thing I notice is in a tournament I start at 30mph. I have to go earlier at that speed than I do at 32,34 or 36. All of those speeds kinda seem the same. Usually on my 32 im close to being too early. Kinda like jump just cut later!

[ToddL]

The thing about gate timing is that it is affected by the efficiency and intensity of your pull out. So, the timing for an inefficient, low intensity skier will be unique to that skier.

 

The more efficient you are the less intense you have to be. So they are somewhat inversely related.

 

A skier who is building skills in stack and pull out lean position will likely experience improved width and speed of glide. If that skier pulls out using the same timing and intensity as before the new efficiency skill, the skier may overshoot the turn-in point for the gates.

 

No matter the situation, the goal is to get wider and up on the boat than the 2-4-6 buoy line such that you can glide and match the boat's speed still at width and at the moment when you are ready to turn for the gates so that you can complete the turn before the boat's pull picks you up allowing you to point the ski sufficiently across the boat's path on an early trajectory ahead of 1-ball but still through the gates.

 

Each change in boat speed or line length will require some adjustment to hit that mark.

 

The key is build consistency in your method such that only 1 variable is adjusted for each new pass. For some, that may be keeping efficiency, stack, intensity, width point the same, but adjusting the start timing for each pass. For others, it may be keeping the same starting point, efficiency, stack, but adjusting the intensity for each pass.

 

Getting solid gates and confidence will make everything else in the course progress much faster.

 

 

[lpskier]

Using an eight ball course with the "zero ball" is a big help as you have a reference point for your turn in and can build consistency. If your course doesn't have a zero ball, put one in. #iskiconnelly

[wtrskior]

I've used a zero ball before @lpskier absolutely can't stand them. Totally mess me up, especially skiing different sites

[Razorskier1]

Many years ago my brother, my son, a friend and I skied with Jodi Fisher (my second or third time). Anyway, we skied for 2.5 days and the whole time all he had us do is work on gates. My friend started getting frustrated, wondering when we would start coaching skiing. I have spent quite a bit of time on it with the Adams as well. Doing the pull out and turn in correctly establishes your width and rhythm for the entire course. If you are wide enough and run the gate correctly, you should feel wide and early at 2 ball.

 

As @ToddL noted above, stack matters. If you are back on the ski, you will be inefficient in getting wide or generating speed. If you can be forward and move forward (rather than outward), you will be extremely efficient. This factor has a huge impact on the timing and intensity of your gate pull out and turn in. Done right, the gate makes your passes feel slow, wide and easy. Done wrong, you will feel fast and narrow.

[wtrskior]

@Razorskier1 I've skied with Jodi as well, his advise has probably propelled my skiing further than anyone, as you had me stand WAY forward on my ski, to the point of being completely uncomfortable, not to mention his trailing hip drills. I'd actually go so far as to say that almost every pro coach I've skied with has spent a decent amount of time on my gates.

 

In this case, tournament anxiety got the best of me, I was so worried about making the gates that I let up right through them and the boat got me OTF.

 

I found in subsequent sets since that I'm best to begin my turn in as the 1 ball and left gate buoy line up and as the bow is about to hit the gates.

 

I also pull way to soon/hard on my gate and it sends me way too hot into 1 (LFF), then I'm taking slack at 1, down coarse and pull hard/long into 2. I know this, and need to really get my gate rhythm set so I start off on the right (left) foot.

 

thanks!

[6balls]

One change I made in my skiing this year was to get uncomfortably high on gate pull out. Now it's no longer uncomfortable. Funny thing is my ski partner after I had gone thru 35 tells me I have to ski 22 (his opener) just for fun...I nearly shored myself on gate pull out!

 

If I can ever get and stay physically healthy I do believe the high gate is going to pay off big time on shorter lines.

[MrJones]

I believe that higher is better and more front foot is better. Both are uncomfortable for most of us. Some guys like Will can be back, but make such a dynamic move over the ski before the buoy it works. If you want to see forward check out any CP video or Greg Badal in the Rev6 commercial from Goode. Watch where the water break is as he begins his move in.

 

To answer your question about timing. I believe that front foot pressure is the key. A lot of us panic and rock back when we feel that we are going to be any bit fast for the turn in. That makes it worse as the ski just runs down the lake. Staying over your front foot gives you much more control. (Now if I can just do it myself)

[Razorskier1]

@wtrskior -- yep, Jodi is also really big on stance on your ski. Also true with Chet (and his associate Noah). Jodi also preaches that you should be "falling forward" as you pull out for your gate. Another uncomfortable feeling. However, as @MrJones says, that is also the feeling you want when you turn in for your gate. Moving forward on the ski, not back, and certainly not away from the boat.

[ski6jones]

Agree @MrJones and @Razorskier1. When I feel too fast on the turn in I instinctively want to fall back, while in reality just turning in with the extra speed is doable and fairly easy. Hard to convince my instinct of that though.

[UWSkier]

@MrJones most uncomfortable feeling on water. I'm feeling the same thing. I swear I'm standing straight-legged and front foot heavy, then I go back and watch a video and I'm not.

 

http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o605/uwskier/ski/SC%202016-07-26%20at%202.35.02%20PM_zpsuiwlrr5f.png

My stance on a "good" gate glide.

 

 

[MrJones]

Another issue for us cursed lefties is that we tend to just "start to lean" vs. "make a turn toward the gate, then lean". I don't think you position there looks bad at all, but what happens when you start to move toward the gates? Do your hips move forward with the handle as you rotate, or do they drop back as the handle moves forward when you turn in?

(I just recognize this as it seems I've been working on it all summer)

[Razorskier1]

Totally! I'm a righty, but the trick for me is to be moving my hips forward toward the handle rather than falling away or back to create line tension. The turn in has to be a move forward (across the course), not a move back on the ski or away from the boat.

[Lovell]

I'm a lefty and one thing that I've been told

[Lovell]

By coaches including Terry Winter and Willi Ellermeier is to think of using your front foot to step through the ski when you turn in for the gate. That helps force your weight forward. Also, pull out width really helps.

[UWSkier]

@MrJones, working on keeping my hips more forward through the turn-in is one of my biggest things to work on this summer.

[gsm_peter]

A 15 off/32mph LFF experience.

 

I normally ski wirh very bent knees. Got recommendation to stand taller.

Working on it for 8 weeks now with questionable success. ..

 

Have already a lot of weight on the front foot.

Usually get (for my level) great with and a controlled turn in.

Great acceleration towards the first wake and then... I am slightly bent in my waist, slightly bent arms....

 

What happens??

I burry my ski tip into the wake.

Have now 8 scary otf falls.

Have 3 times almost lost my right glove. Velcro has opened on my old and brand new Clinchers. The new one broke.

Arm an body hurts a lot. Some keeps of the water for a week.

 

I am now getting really afraid to ski with straight legs and weight on front foot.

Any advice?

 

[Deep11]

Hi @gsm_peter that sounds like a really unpleasant way to spend your leisure time! Video is needed as there has to be a biomechanical issue - if you get it right you should feel "indestructible" at the wake ie "bigger wake more speed - not a problem " you are trying to achieve a point where you don't even have to register the wake as an obstacle but rather a reference point for timing.

I would suspect from your description that when you hit the wake your hips go back more and your arms come up higher breaking you at the waist and moving your COM too far forward = otf

I know I will get shot down here but I find that once connected "with com balanced / over front foot" keeping my shoulders "open to the boat" helps tremendously. Breaking at the hips when you hit the wake is much harder to do when your shoulders are facing the boat (even if your arms are up/out).

 

[gavski]

@UWSkier - i have been struggling with this gliding stance issue for what seems like forever... Until i started thinking about projecting my chest forwards when i come off my 'outbound' lean...

So, instead of thinking about standing 'up' and gliding, i think about standing 'forward'... It should feel like you have your chest in front of your toes when you glide...to keep my position up on the boat, i also twist my hips slightly to the left - 11 o'clock position...when it is time to turn in, i just relax my hips, ankles and knees....this 'relaxing' of the tension initiates the turn....

[ScottScott]

@gsm_peter I am LFF also. I definitely hit the wake harder on my offside (which would be the gates) than onside. The 2 main things that help me with stability crossing the wake is handle low and close to body, and attempting to keep hips and shoulders square to ski. I feel like on the offside allowing hips or shoulder to open to boat makes the ski want to turn down course while bumping over the wakes. That change in direction of the ski at best, looses angle....at worse results in a nasty OTF falls, of which i have had many.....99% on my offside.