All New 2017 Radar SENATE

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I just ran across the video for the new 2017 Senate line. For those of us who are not at the Vapor level yet, there are some interesting changes for 2017 in the Senate line. Here is the video if you want to watch it, but it looks like all the other slalom promo videos:

 

Here is Radar's description of the Senate line:

New for 2017 the Senates match shape to our latest Vapor. This is hands down the best Senate we've ever made and it comes in three constructions. Lithium Senate is 100% Carbon Fiber and PVC Core. Graphite Senate is 100% Carbon Fiber and a Polyurethane Core. And new for 2017 the Alloy Senate is 100% Carbon Fiber and our new Hybrid Core which is a Polyurethane Core with Paulownia Stringers for a damper calmer ride.

 

So, new shape for the Senates and the Alloy version gets wood stringers often used in the wood cores of snow skis but bumps up to 100% carbon fiber.

 

Really looking forward to hearing from people with experience on the last Senate shape and how the new ones compare.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I forgot to mention -- the Senates how also have the windows in the nose! Looks pretty cool in my opinion.

[Bill22]

@TallSkinnyGuy I am a 15 off skier and I have a '16 Vapor. Let me just say "You want one of these new Senates."

[greg]

I can say that the new Senate is going to be a big hit! Yes "You will want one of these new Senates."

[paco]

Glad to hear this! Will make affording a left over 15-16 lithium senate much easier! B)

[gmut]

Question. Where is the 2017 Senate series manufactured? And will the insert pattern be changed to the Vapor pattern so you can get your bindings mounted on the ski without having to modify them.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

The 2017 Radar Senate will be the best one yet. The lithium is an extremely great ski and have ridden it, All I can say is people that buy that ski will be nothing but pleased. I have heard and seen some of the guys take that ski down the line, it is very much so capable of running deep shortline.

[Razorskier1]

as an aside, I have a 67 inch Senate a that I bought last year as a "guest ski" at my house. My brother skied it today. He's 6'7" and 220lbs. He usually skis on a 69 inch Mapple Sixam 1.0. The 67 inch Senate had plenty of support for him despite his size. I've had about 5 guests of different sizes ski this same ski -- it looks good for all of them. This ski seems to serve a broad range of weights/sizes/levels with equal ease.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@gmut I think I saw a video or read something from Radar that said their Senate line is manufactured in their factory in China and "overseen by Radar employees." So, it sounded like they outsource to a China factory but have Radar employees on site managing the production and doing quality control.

[paco]

Dang, that just put a damper on me wanting a Senate! I thought most all of the high name skis were made in the US. wouldn't be so bad if they weren't SO expensive!

[Ski_Dad]

Nice looking ski and great video !

[Bill22]

@eddie_roberts_jr when will the 2017 Senate Graphite 65" be ready to ship?

[gmut]

Currently on a 2016 71" Senate Lithium. Love this ski, very fast side to side and it turns extremely well. I will admit that I too was disappointed that it was made in China and I did tweak the ski a little, added relief holes(are already there on the Vapor series) in the ski for the depth and length screws on the fin box and the wing assembly on my particular ski was not symmetrical so I replaced it. Very easy ski to ride, no surprises.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

Anyone get a chance to ride one of these yet? I'm very curious to know the performance differences from the previous model.

[eddie_roberts_jr]

I have and I absolutely love it! Of course I am extremely biased but the ski is a big improvement over the Senates of the past. As you may have already heard, the 2017 Senate is the same shape as the 2016 Vapor with .2" added to the width. They should be available toward the end of this month or early October in all three constructions.

 

[Bill22]

@eddie_roberts_jr thank you. A friend is in need of a new ski. She is just starting to learn the course at 28mph. I'm recommending the Lyric. The '17 Lyric has the same shape as the new Senate correct?

#radarnation #radarlove

[eddie_roberts_jr]

Yessir, the '17 Lyric is built from the same mold as the Senate and has a slightly softer flex for the ladies because as we all know they have better technique than we do.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@Bill22 Yes, the Lyric is also modeled after the 2016 Vapor shape but is now 100% carbon fiber and has the PU core with wood stringers like the Alloy Senate. Here's the video:

 

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@eddie_roberts_jr My understanding from last year's Radar brochure is that the Senate/Lyric is not just 0.2" wider than the Vapor, but also has a different rocker (longer flat spot for increased stability) and something different in the tail shape to make it more stable for us intermediate skiers, correct? I assume that is the same for the 2017 versions?

[eddie_roberts_jr]

Nope. Tail shape, rocker, flat spot and sidecut, have all been lifted directly from the '16 Vapor. Only thing different on last year's Senate from the '15 Vapor was the round tail and the width.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

Interesting. I'm really looking forward to giving the '17 Senate a try.

[pregom]

I want one!!! Is it really true that the insert pattern on the Senate is different from the Vapor, as @gmut says?

[paco]

I really need to quit reading this thread! A Senate is officially on top of my wish list!

[igkya]

I came off a 2010 Senate C to a 2016 Senate Lithium, wow, what a great ski, can only imagine what the 2017 will be like.

[gmut]

@eddie_roberts_jr So the 2017 Senate won't be wider like the 2016.

[pgmoore]

@gmut - as per @eddie_roberts_jr post above:

 

"As you may have already heard, the 2017 Senate is the same shape as the 2016 Vapor with .2" added to the width."

 

So, yes, 0.2" wider than the Vapor.

[Bill22]

@pregom they have the same hole pattern. I think someone posted in another discussion a D3 or Connelly binding fit the hole pattern but would not go back far enough.

[gsm_peter]

At what ski level does the ski make a difference?

I ski deep or full 32's and type 3 bois at 34 each set on my orange 2012 Regular Senate.

Would an upgrade to a more modern Senate Lithium give me more consistently or maybe even more bois?

 

[paco]

@gsm_peter it's my understanding that you would benefit greatly from a lithium. It should be faster and more responsive than an alloy. Website shows a lithium to be capable of -41

[gsm_peter]

@paco

Thanks.

Both skis are far more capable than I will ever be

[paco]

@gsm_peter I may have miss understood. You running 32 off or 32mph? If 32 mph, I probably wouldn't worry too much about upgrading until consistent 15off at 34mph. That's my goal. I also would like a lithium, but I just like trying new stuff! B)

[gsm_peter]

Just started working on 34 mph

Get usually 3 boies and run over number 4 so it might not be that far away.... I hope.

I have a full 33mph last year.

 

Since I started very late in life progress is very, very slow...

[Bill22]

@gsm_peter the shape of the old orange Senate (2012 & older, Strada shape) is awesome BUT you have the 1/2 fiberglass version. That fiberglass is NOT helping you any. Get off the glass man!

 

Any of the '17 Senates would be a big upgrade. Even the Aloy is now 100 % Carbon.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@Bill22 The glass/carbon mix is supposed to make the ski more forgiving, so for someone who is developing technique and needs a forgiving ski, the fiberglass could be helping a lot. I'm with @paco, in that I think I want to stay on the Alloy version until I can run 15off 34mph consistently. I want the forgiveness until I can be more consistent with my technique.

[OldboyII]

@TallSkinnyGuy Correct. When my Goode broke and I was waiting for delivery of new ski I skied on old fiberglass ski, ski was heavy like cast iron bridge ))

But it gave a very nice feeling that I can do some things easier than on modern carbon/PVC ski. Very forgiving when you come closer to personal limits.

 

 

[Bill22]

We need more experienced help on this...@Wish, @Chef23, @RazorRoss3, @6balls, @MrJones, or someone with experience teaching please comment on this.

 

Q: Is someone who consistently runs -15@32mph and moving up to 34 on a fiberglass ski, due for an upgrade?

[Bill22]

@TallSkinnyGuy I agree get a forgiving ski that fits your ability but 34mph isn't easy (for someone who didn't grow up running the course). Get the Senate (wider= more stable) but get one that's all carbon, it's like racing fuel.

 

Think about this, Radar is making the Alloy ski out of 100% carbon. That's the low end ski. They are the experts. They know what makes a good ski, not me.

[RazorRoss3]

Wow, I feel really special now, thanks for the call out @Bill22. Hi @gsm_peter, I think it's possible that a ski upgrade could help you, definitely not out of the question. That said, the more important thing while moving through speeds is to make sure you are edge changing earlier and earlier and controlling your handle off the second wake. An equipment upgrade is probably not a bad idea in the near future but I think working on the technical side will be just as beneficial in the short term.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@eddie_roberts_jr I think there is a group of us here that would really appreciate a better understanding of the target markets for each of the versions of the Senate. Do you consider skier ability for each construction, even if that is not the key consideration? If so, do you have a target skill level for each construction? For example,

1) Alloy Senate for just learning the course up through 15 off at 34 mph

2) Graphite Senate for 15 off through 28 off at 34 mph

3) Lithium Senate for 28 off and shorter at 34 mph

 

Obviously there is tremendous cross over between each segment (i.e. someone just learning the course would likely do just fine on a Lithium Senate). But, do you have target skill levels for each construction or is price point the only concern for your target markets?

[wtrskior]

@TallSkinnyGuy I am a big proponent of getting the best made ski for the aspiring skier. So long as you're athletic the lighter and stronger skis are easier to ski.

 

My very loose line is when any skier is learning max speed. 34/36.

 

 

[gsm_peter]

@eddie_roberts_jr

 

Is there any other benefit besides the Core material in the Lithium compared to the Graphite version?

 

Thanks all for your support

I think the ski shape in it self could be a reason to upgrade?

The new Vapor shape could support me being more forgiving and also increase consistency?

The Strada shape might have some disadvantages compared to the latest Vapor shape.

More Carbon is most lightly not a bad thing either.

 

In any case I have to wait for a new ski until next season since there are no Senate Lithium in Sweden at the moment.

 

[Chef23]

@Bill22 I would say you could upgrade but be careful if you get on something that is less forgiving it could set you back. I would say demo and if a ski isn't better in the first 2 or 3 sets stay in what you are on until you are running 34.

[Bill22]

@Chef23 great advice, I could have used it last spring! We are helping @gsm_peter who lives in Sweden. I don't think he has any demo opinions there.

 

@RazorRoss3 I thought you said you were a captain of your college ski team. Either way to a 15 off guy if you run -28 = expert and -35 = Grand Master... lol

[RazorRoss3]

I was the coach at Iowa, but I always stress that the person on top of the ski is more important than the ski. At -15 there's more going wrong from the feet up than the feet down usually. New equipment can help but technique coaching can go a long way as well.

[igkya]

The 2017 Lithium Senate is listed at $999.99, yet the 2016 version sold at $1,200 when it first came out. Why?

[Bill22]

@igkya you never ask why when the price goes down!!

[TallSkinnyGuy]

The 2017 Lithium Vapor is also priced $200 less the the 2016 version -- and it is the same ski with updated graphics. While a price decrease is always nice to see, it does make one wonder as to why.

[Porkfight]

Were they also built in China in 2016? Could explain the price difference, if not.

[Stickman]

Where are you guys seeing prices?

[TallSkinnyGuy]

perfski.com