Will a Tesla-ized (or similar) electric boat come to market?

[sunvalleylaw]

Because of my teen kids and their school, and also out of general interest, I have been watching and following information about lowering carbon consumption and emissions to save the oceans and the world. I love my ski boat, and I bet given the hours it gets each summer, it is not a huge overall contributor to the problem. Nonetheless, it would be cool if Tesla or similar could install their motor into a tourney or wake boat. (I want a slalom boat of course ;) ). I know Nautique and LTS built one a few years ago. But the youtube comments say it is a failed project. I hope not for long.

 

(also a bonus to see Andy in this vid from 2011).

 

Tesla builds very fast, very powerful cars with plenty of torque. The electric motors could be configured to add interior room. could be some advantages. Not sure about water and electricity though. thoughts?? It might fit Tesla's model of offering a high end product to subsidize development of more accessible products down the line, as they do with cars.

 

It has been discussed at the Tesla forums:

 

I see there were a couple other threads a few years ago after the nautique was announced. Any updates?

 

[Wish]

carbon problem??.. save the world?? Another sucked into the abis of a false narrative. But personally id love to own a Tesla. Fast is fun. Silent and fast has gotta be a trip.

[Orlando76]

My dad preaches a figure of something in the tune of the American people use 15% of the fuel that the American Government (mainly military) uses every day. I can't say exactly where he gets his stats from to validate this but knowing him he researched it. 15%! Meaning the Govt uses 85% more and how many people is that vs American citizens?! As long as I can afford it I'll keep pumping Dino juice in my '93 V8 and not feel guilty.

 

I will say with the instant torque and once speed control is dialed in, the pull and consistency would be far superior to anything we've ever seen before. In fact speed control should be easier to do with the electric motors and precise as ever.

[MISkier]

@Orlando76, if the American people use 15% of what the US Government uses, then the Government is using nearly 700% more (not 85%) than the American people (667% actually).

 

Amount US Government uses = 100

Amount American people use = 15 (15% of 100)

 

100/15 = 6.6666 or 667%

[Stevie Boy]

So who is going to be up for, not only a very expensive boat, but also the monthly / lease cost of the battery pack ?

[BraceMaker]

For our sport electric boat will probably be cable ski. My opinion atleast

[Than_Bogan]

There are quite a few potentially great things about an electric boat:

 

1) Quieter. I have it on good authority that it's not as quiet as you might expect, because the water itself makes a lot of noise. But it's still quieter, and I firmly believe one of the keys to getting back on public water is to adapt to a quieter world.

 

2) Solar recharge. Many boats sit in the sun all day and then are driven briefly. Free power for the win!

 

3) Torque. Electric motors generally achieve full torque instantly, probably meaning that a much lower horse power can do a great job.

 

4) Faster response to "throttle"? I'm not expert enough to be certain of this, but it stands to reason that there has to be a delay in regulating fuel, whereas an electric motor should be able to change its power level much faster. Could make speed control better?

 

5) Gasoline sucks. Smells horrible, soaks into fabrics, spills in water, has some carcinogenic properties, and is heavy to carry around. Oh, and squirrels like to eat my plastic tanks! Wouldn't be sad to be rid of it.

 

I actually think an electric ski boat makes a ton more sense than an electric car. Cars need range, and are driven a higher percentage of each day.

[Texas6]

They'll have to pry my gas powered, perfect sounding V8 out of my cold dead hands

[Jordan]

I can't wait...no more carrying Gerry cans!

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Yeah lots of torque at low speed but how much torque at skiing speeds where it matters? That will take a big motor and big batteries.

 

How many millions has Tesla invested and is still loosing money selling cars for 6 figures? How big is the ski boat market compared to automotive? Maybe a cool R&D project but no ROI for a boat company.

[Wish]

@Jordan can't imagine why, the cans have gotten sooo much better with all the EPA mandatory spill proof nozzles that not even a drop leaks out while in transit. Course once you try to actually poor out of the complicated nozzle in the boat it goes all over the place including the lake...but hay...it's better for the environment right?. (Sarcasm font)

[Chef23]

@MISkier I think the math is actually 85/15 which is 566%. No idea if the stat is correct but I think that is the right math.

[Roger]

@Than_Bogan -

 

1) Nautique brought their electric 196 to Okeeheelee a few years ago. It was not any quieter than the gas powered 196 as far as I could tell (which certainly surprised us).

 

4) Faster response to throttle is what made the new 5.3 and 6.2 (along with the faster sampling single puck) so brutal when it was introduced. I'm thinking initially anyway, it would too much.

 

X) Speed control, I expect it wouldn't be ZO as there would certainly be a something besides the current ECM used to control the power.

[MISkier]

@Than_Bogan, please check mine and @Chef23 math.

 

Edit: the original description said that the American people use 15% of what the US Government uses. That is different than saying the American people use 15% of the total fuel consumption.

[ScottScott]

I agree with @Than_Bogan 's points regarding the potential advantages, but I also agree with @Bruce_Butterfield tho regarding price and ROI. In the automotive industry there is a lot of drive for an alternative, and the price of the tesla and other electric cars that will hit the market in the upcoming years will be coming down eventually, hand in hand with them become more widespread. I think it will be a lot farther down the road before a manufacturer invests more into developing a boat like this. Maybe after electric cars become more prevalent there will be pressure to convert recreational type vehicles.

[Chef23]

@MISkier I see your point. That is why I sell stuff and don't do math.

[Razorskier1]

@Wish -- silent and fast stinks! Remember, loud pipes save lives!

[jwroblew]

I would be happy with auto start stop technology, think of how many hours you put on a boat setting at the end of the lake shortening a rope and taking a short break, I would say 50% of your time is sitting at the ends

[rodltg2]

What ever happened to that Nautique ? Last I heard it was still charging for the next set. Must be charged by now ! Epic Boats played around with an Electric and a hybrid boat. Don't think anything came of it either . They seem to have shifted focus out of wakeboard boats into bay boats.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

I can't imagine that stat is even remotely close to correct, but it's another example of how semantics around statistics needs to be precise. If the smaller group is using 15% of the larger group, then the factor is 100/15 ~= 6.67, and that could be stated as 567% more. (There's a hidden -1 in there since the same amount is "none more.") But if one group accounts for 15% of total usage, then the other is left with 85%, so the factor is 85/15 ~= 5.67, which could be expressed as 467% more.

[Than_Bogan]

Loud pipes also get things banned.

[MISkier]

@Than_Bogan, thanks for keeping me honest on the "more" part. Instead of saying "nearly 700% more than the American people use", I should have said "nearly 700% of what the American people use"

[Glydon]

We use electric forklifts where I work and after having done so we would NEVER go back to fuel again , instant torque , quicker to top speed , no fuel , AND the benefit in a boat would be possibility to use solar cells. ROI and pricing argument ? All heard before when they announced electric Cars decades ago. E juice is cool and the future.

[ScottScott]

@Glydon "ROI and pricing argument ? All heard before when they announced electric Cars decades ago. E juice is cool and the future."

 

I don't think the ROI and pricing concerns were so much arguments as it is a cause for this not being likely any time soon. Key being as you say "decades ago," and "the future." Yes, I think in the future it will happen. That future not likely being any time soon.

[Wish]

That's not very many sets on one charge. Would not be an option for any club boat nor would it satisfy the all day wake boarders/surfers so that shrinks the market greatly. ROI is not looking good no matter what the price point.

 

[wtrskior]

Fuel is only 1 factor in emissions. The USA in total emits roughly 5.5 billion metric tonnes of CO2. The US military from what I can gather is around 70M..... But they are no longer going to be except from global targets with the recent paris climate talks.

 

I digress though; there is no market for it and we need to look at reducing costs not increasing. The number of ski boats, or pleasure boats for that matter is immaterial in the grand scheme of things. With DI tech where it is now, even better, but I'm hearing the fuel economy is really no different, if not worse in some cases - can anyone confirm?

[DW]

The CC196 was/is a pretty cool boat, at the time of display IMO the biggest drawbacks were range & charging along with a weight penalty due to the state of battery technology at the time. It is quieter from a cabin perspective and depending on exhaust configuration of an IC engine comparison quieter from a rear view. It is pretty cool to have the boat PU (power unit) be off whenever not in motion and not emit any hydrocarbon emissions and offer a very quiet cabin when in motion. You can hear the water wash on the hull / water and the prop noise so not silent but certainly different.

 

The engineering level at any of the boat manufacturers is decades behind that of a typical OE vehicle manufacturer so it will probably be some time for the technology to filter down in an affordable format for it to be a viable alternative, particularly if gasoline remains at current pricing levels.

 

@Razorskier1: if your noise saves lives comment refers to an unmuffled motorcycle, it only applies if the other vehicle is coming up from behind, oncoming traffic does not hear a loud vehicle with rearward pointing exhaust until it would be too late, so don't rely on it for your safety.

 

[ToddL]

FWIW, that future DC battery powered boat will eventually have to be connected to an AC powered charger on a repeated basis. Anytime AC is connected to a boat which may be in contact with water or sitting on a metal lift in contact with water, etc; then the risk of electric shock is higher. Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is a real danger. There are several web sites with info about various risks and the exact wiring necessary to reduce those risks. Boats get jarred around. Docks are not always maintained well. Ground wires get corrosion. Stuff happens. If our sport goes electric, we will have to be extremely diligent to use marine certified electricians, etc. on our dock/boat charging solutions.

[BraceMaker]

While that is true how many lakes have you been to with electric AC winches and lights wired down the dock. Or jump ramp pumps on shore plumbed to the jump 24/7.

 

I've seen some sketchy dock power solutions with extension cords zip ties along the bottom of piers. Hopefully they're in a good gfci outlet on shore.

[Horton]

Long Link Panda for @sunvalleylaw

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

[BrennanKMN]

I'd like a diesel boat. If I am not mistaken I believe MC has a diesel powered 197 in early 2000. I think it would be a nice stepping stone into the full electric market. The diesel of today is not in the same stratosphere as the diesel from 2005.

[Wish]

But the deisel of today is so heavily modified by EPA regulations that efficiency is reduced dramatically. That most likely will get worse as they still have the stigma of being "dirty" and bad for the tree huggers...I mean environment.

[gsm_peter]

According to my knowledge.

1 kg of gas is approximately 10kwh.

10 kg of expensive battery can provide 1 kwh.

Used petrol engines have efficiency of type 15%

Electric engines including speed control have type 90% efficiency.

 

All toghter

- super great boat to drive an accelerate.

- most likely superior torque

- great emissions

- heavy

- short action time

- expensive

- Charging time long even assume high voltage..

[sunvalleylaw]

@Horton Dang it! and I have been really good lately! sorry.

[AdamCord]

**Warning, long and nerdy post below**

 

I think an electric boat would be cool as hell. If you have never driven a Tesla before you need to do yourself a favor and drive one. It will blow your mind. Power...smooth, quiet, instantaneous and borderline scary POWER.

 

Before I dive into why this would be awesome for water sports AND totally feasible...@Orlando76 the military uses a lot of energy, 93% of the energy of the entire federal government, but it still uses only about 1% of the total energy consumed by the US. These figures look at total energy consumption, not just gas/oil, but the ratios are about the same.

 

Without getting into the environmental aspect, as I don't want to get political here, I think the case can be made for electric boats purely from performance and economics standpoints.

 

When the skier slows the boat, zero off needs the engine to increase its speed and power. To do this the throttle is opened. Air moving through the intake is increased, and vacuum decreases. Then the air flow sensor sees this increase in air, and allows the injectors to stay open for longer. This increase in air and fuel, as well as the decrease in intake vacuum, cause the power with each combustion to be greater, as well as restricting the movement of the pistons less. As a result, the engine speeds up and produces more power. (there're also adjustments being made to the ignition timing as this happens, but you get the idea). While this process has been finely tuned now for 100+ years, it's still slow to react, and difficult to precisely control.

 

An electric motor on the other hand, is much simpler. Voltage to the motor is modulated by transistors, which turn on and off to produce an average voltage seen by the motor. The more time the transistors are ON, the higher the voltage seen by the motor. These transistors operate at insanely fast speeds. From the perception of the skier, the change in speed and power of an electric motor would seem instantaneous. Also the speed of the motor is automatically seen by the controller at all times, so micro-adjustments in voltage to control the speed are a no-brainer.

 

As someone noted above, that may make the pull feel harsh. It doesn't have to be. What this means is that we can much more finely tune the feel of the speed control system than we do now. Possibly even eliminating ABC/123 and having only one pull that feels the same for everyone. The reason we need so many different pulls is because every boat is different, every engine is different, and the programming is different. The fact that the engine is slow to respond and difficult to control is the main culprit here. Use an electric motor which has much faster and more controllable speed and power, and you can make a much better speed control. I know everyone hates to change speed controls...but we're talking about an electric boat here so obviously it will be different.

 

Now onto economics... Gas in the US is CHEAP right now. It won't stay that way. As the prices do increase over the next few years, battery prices will continue to drop. It's estimated now that Tesla's cost is already at or below $100/kWh, and that is expected to fall dramatically when the Gigafactory is up and running.

 

Let's say we have to run a tournament, and we have 2 fully charged electric promo boats on hand. If we have a high amperage line for charging (whether at the dock or at the house), we can charge one while the other is running.

 

Now I apologize because I have to make some assumptions, and I hate doing that. If a "pass" takes 30 seconds from takeoff to set down on the other end, and we assume the average power consumed during the pass is 100hp (a high estimate in my opinion), then each pass will consume .62kWh of energy. If we have the same battery as the new Tesla P100D, we have 100kWh, meaning we can pull 100/.62=161 passes. If each skier in the tournament skis 4 passes, we can pull 161/4= 40 skiers. When that battery is spent, the next boat can take over while the 1st starts to charge. If the 2nd boat can't finish the tournament, the 1st will have enough juice to finish it off.

 

Based on expected battery prices, a setup like this may add $10k to the price of the boat in say 5-10 years from now. I don't know how much gas is used per pass, but I'm sure someone here can give a good estimate. I'll say 1/4 gallon just because that's easy to work with. Assuming gas prices only rise to $4 gallon in that time, that comes out to $1/pass. The average price for electricity in the US is about 10 cents/kWh, so the price comes to 6 cents per pass. If you have solar it's free. Also keep in mind there are no oil changes and there is a lot less maintenance required. Depending on how much the boat is used, the payback could be a few years.

 

As far as someone like Tesla developing this...no way. It will take a company like Indmar, PCM, or even LTS who made the Electric Nautique to put together a package using car technology (just like is done now) and selling it to the boat manufacturers. Also I doubt a ski boat is the first place we'll see it. Wake boats are a good candidate, I just think Epic was a little ahead of their time. They still make boats, and I would guess they have shelved the tech until gas prices go up and battery prices drop enough to make it make sense.

[Chef23]

I like @jwroblew's concept of an instant on boat. I bet 60% of boat time is at idle in a slalom tug which could largely be off. That would save gas and hours on the boat.

[Jordan]

As an added bonus, it sure would make winterization a snap!

[jcamp]

@Horton, why the hell did you have to bring facts into this debate? Geez.

[Razorskier1]

@Than_Bogan - I love the sound of a powerful V8. That being said, my PS has a Fresh-Air Exhaust on it because of exactly what you said. I live on a public lake, and need to keep from being banned/losing course permit. @DW - just a comment on the fact that I like the sound of V8 engines. My Dodge Durango R/T has a terrific exhaust note -- gives me intrinsic pleasure every time I push the pedal.

[Waternut]

I would love to have an electric boat but I don't see it happening in the near future and I don't see it being an affordable option either.

 

As for sound....Tow it with a throaty V8 if it makes you feel better.

 

Cons:

I don't think solar panels will not be enough to recharge your boat unless you only use it 1-2 times a month or your entire boathouse roof is covered in solar panels ($$$). I don't know about everyone else but I personally would have to rewire power to my dock to handle the electrical usage of a big battery charger. Speed controls would have to be completely re-vamped. Lastly...if it's going to add another $10K+ to the already outrageous price of current boats, might as well just build promo boats from here on.

[BraceMaker]

Might be an idea to install wind mills on the lake site. Seems like usually the locations friendly to lake dredging would be permissive of wind farming.

 

Also depending anyone here have their lake well electricity figures present?

 

Most of you probably have heard the concept that storage mediums for renewal electricity are costly - however the more and more electric vehicles are on the grid the more they can store and sell power back in time of disuse.

 

 

Maybe ski lakes are little power farms

 

[ALPJr]

I think the technology is close. Checkout wrightspeed.com

[Bill22]

@BraceMaker wind mills only make money if the government gives you money for building them.

 

I don't want sound like a jerk just thought you should know before you spend 10 or 20 million on a win mill.

[Orlando76]

@MISkier I didn't have my morning coffee at that point. I meant to say the Government uses the REMAINING 85%, not 85% more. Doing some quick research tonight look's like the "Department of Defense" uses 93% of the energy consumed in U.S (2007). I'd post the links I used but I've been failing at that lately too.

 

Come to think of it an electric boat should be much smoother.

[Than_Bogan]

@Orlando76 Cord supplied the correct info.

[Laz]

I have been wondering about an electric boat for a long time.

 

I have almost 100 000 gas free km on my electric car. Regardless of whether you accept the fact of man made climate change or not (see Panda above), once you have spent time in an electric car, you can never go back.

 

The company that made the electric Nautique is LTS Marine, based in Quebec. (http://goo.gl/nwnXRJ).

 

I emailed them last year wondering how much energy a slalom set would use. I thought that one could grab a small suitcase sized battery from the charger, plug it into the boat and ski a set. This is what they told me:

 

***

Our experience shows a slalom set requires a little less than 10 kWh and current technology gives between 12 and 20 kg / kWh depending of the cell chemistry. The challenge is the high power that the battery needs to deliver for slalom skiing. The more powerful the chemistry, the heavier which would amount to around 200 kg, roughly 400 lbs for a 10 kWh battery, maybe a little less.

 

The best way to accommodate a school / club environment is a fast charger on the dock. A fast charger can refill the boat battery in about 20 minutes and alternating between wakeboard and ski gives enough time to refill.

 

***

 

BTW, a Tesla battery weight is about 6kg/kWh.

[parkerc2112]

Millions of gas guzzling suv's first.. We have a minuscule carbon footprint in this sport. Convert cars/trucks/suv's then we'll talk

[BraceMaker]

@Bill22 for sure have to convince someone to lease to you

[liquid d]

I skied behind that electric nautique. It was a bit quieter, but not a lot. It had a different whine to it. I'm guessing the battery weight was about the same as an engine, because the wakes were no different from normal. It had plenty of power.

[Golfguy]

The reduction of hydrocarbon emissions is only regional unless solar power supplies the recharge. The units of energy, most likely generated by a carbon source, to move the boat, are simple produced somewhere else. Including line drop to transmit this power it is likely that the carbon foot print increases with the use of electric power.