Death of BallOfSpray

[Horton]

The title of this thread is a bit dramatic but I wanted to get your attention. Actually web traffic is healthy and growing but the evolving culture but this forum concerns me. The forum is almost completely free speech but the health of community depends on it being a moderated forum. About 95% of you do not need to read this post because you are not the problem but please read it anyway.

 

I started the site because I wanted skiers who knew more than myself to have a place to talk about skiing so I could read what they said. It was a personal quest of knowledge. I (we) built this community from a small group of skiers into the largest web site / community / media source in water skiing. In the beginning the rules were pretty clear. Snarky, sarcastic or negative posts were only endured in small doses. The very first Ballers all had a fair amount mutual respect for each other and visited the site for information as well as fellowship.

 

The rules about complaining about ski industry companies took a few years to evolve and eventually became “If a manufacturer wronged you personally then you could tell your story but if you had not been personally wronged your personal negative message about a product or service was not welcome.” Currently, I do not see much flagrant violation of this rule but I do see an alarming amount of disrespect. It is just enough to make the ski companies feel uneasy about the BallOfSpray forum. I hope everyone realizes that the water ski industry reads this forum.

 

When you are snarky or disrespectful or dismissive toward a ski company or fellow baller you are insulting someone and you are making me look bad. Yea this is about me because I own every word on this web site. My job is to make this web site as interesting and entertaining as possible for as many skiers as possible. My #1 goal for a long time has been for the forum to be a resource for skiers. If that is too contrived or confining for you then I suggest you go somewhere else.

 

So what does all this mean? I am starting by asking you guys to consider your tone. If the owner of company X or skier Z was in the room would you make the same comments? You saying his gloves or ski or boat or event or score is crap is like me saying your mom is…. (insert inappropriate and offencive comment about your mother). Maybe your mom is a hideous beast (humor) but I think we can agree that anyone who points it out may be an A-Hole. Don’t be an A-Hole.

 

Last thing. This is not a discussion. If you do not like or respect the way I run the site then I can’t help you. I am 100% not going to publicly defend they way I manage the site. If you really have a question please email or PM me.

[Than_Bogan]

My dad went to Wharton many years ago. When I was a teenager Wharton introduced, to great fanfare, a new course in Business Ethics. I vividly recall my dad saying "How can you have a semester long course in ethics? The only thing you need to know is DON'T BE AN AHOLE."

[ALPJr]

Long live Ball of Spray !

[jhughes]

This is one of the main reasons I shut down my site, it drove me nuts.

[6balls]

My intent is never to be out of line. When younger I was certainly inflammatory if provoked on-line or in person (you want a piece of me?). Now I try to walk away on-line or in person...I guess this means I'm getting older. The hardest part is not to fire back at someone who is clearly out of line but that just isn't productive, either.

 

If ever I am out of line (cuz I'm aware it could happen) call me on it and I'll do my best to repair it...it likely wasn't intentional. @Horton great site...skiing needs it.

 

So one of the things nice about this forum is the vast majority of the membership doesn't put up with petty crap and kind of self police the forum to a degree. John when things are clearly getting testy do we just leave it to you or point out?

[Horton]

@6balls there were a couple of threads in the last few months that really concerned me. I am 99.99999% you were not part of the problem. I actually don't think the users that made the posts that are so frustrating had any idea how far out of line they were so I'm just saying to everybody don't be an a-hole. Remember every time you post potentially thousands of people will read your words.

[Razorskier1]

@Horton - a good reminder for all of us. Sometimes discussions devolve in bad ways, and then they just keep going. I'm on the site for the same reasons as you created it. Interact with and hear from great skiers and ambassadors in our sport (and every now and then when I'm really stroking to brag a little). Anywho -- onward and upward -- be nice out there folks!

[mjump]

@Horton. This is been a great site. I have now been able to ski with good people. @MillerTime38, @Ryno Because of this site I now have taken a small permit course and opened it up to the world.

[Cent]

I will second that comment. "This is a great cite".

 

I am new here.

Not the skier that most here who comment a lot appear to be. At age 71 never will be.

However I am renewing an interest and the cite is wonderful in that respect for me and my wife age 69. Took my first single ski ride at age 12. Fifty nine years ago. A joy then and now.

 

In part do to this cite, earlier this summer, with a little help from Dave Goode, I now have a new Rev 6. The ski with some effort on my part has done great things for me. Need to upgrade my wife next.

 

As an accessory to the ski I have just acquired a a 6.0 Carbon Pro. It is in transit to Alaska. I had help in deciding to make that acquisition through a post I made here, as well as a contact with the "fearless leader" Mr. Horton.

 

So I would greatly miss this cite. It helps more than those far into short line. And there are a lot of those skiers.

 

As an aside I skied this weekend in a short legged 2 millimeter Camarro with the water at 58 degrees and the air at 52 degrees. It was a good experience. This cite aids that level of enthusiasm. We are almost done here, but the boat is still in the water looking to next weekend.

 

The cite is also obviously helpful for technical issues like boat maintenance. A very useful attribute.

 

So I would like to see the cite prosper and the administrator temporarily block, and when necessary remove the inappropriate. A result preferable to many suffering for a few. No administrator can prevent or initially eliminate the inappropriate but for the good of the cite they can be shall we say "post holed for a tune". As people learn this occurs I have seen it have a positive influence on civility and commentary.

 

So Nr. Horton please keep up the good work.

Thanks.

 

 

[Horton]

@cent don't worry the site isn't going anywhere. I'm just trying to get everybody's attention.

[dwfrech]

To John H.: This site is fantastic. Waterskiing is a sport which does not have a massive media following to publish information about it, where one could read and get second-hand analysis of his sport. That is ow it is for a sport like ours, unlike basketball/football/baseball/soccer - where there are hundreds of armchair analysts figuring out who made the most yards/goals/hits. In waterskiing the accomplishments happen without much fanfare. It is a sport for independent, driven people who don't need fame or recognition but just love to do it. This is the place where on the web you can get new ideas and share things with other skiers. You have done a lot to advance the sport beyond the invisible status where it was just people going out conquering buoys and trying to advance without too much publicity. Not that you are trying to make waterskiing a mainstream commercial sport ... we are all just sharing. It has been great to know there are others who will give you input and it includes all levels of skiing. That alone, the democratic spirit of this site, is notable. Keep it going and I have to say, your effort has gained momentum from a grass-roots following and it seems to be growing. Thank you.

[mschoewe]

I have only used this site for ski reviews or fin settings in the past... I just posted a dissertation on how I am now approaching my skiing comeback. I thought this was about me at first! Haha Whew!

[Horton]

@mschoewe no no. You and I do not see eye to eye on sport psychology but this is absolutely not about you.

[LeonL]

I fall on the side of @6balls. Read his post and think me as well. I may need throttling at times, but I hope not.

[chris55]

Living in Geneva, Switzerland, the BOS is a huge quantity of informations for beginner slalomer like me and it should really stay that way. I am so glad Mister @Horton put this forum on the web. I say Mister on purpose because it is a lot of work behind and a lot of passion for waterski....so a lot of respect. Thank you for reminding the community for not to be an A-hole.

 

[bigskieridaho]

I am not sure why there would be any posts that would degrade or jeopardize such a great website. This is a great social tool, whether it is for equipment or finding fellow ballers to ski with in different locations. Keep it up @Horton, love this site!

[Fast351]

I think the golden rule for all "social media" (yes this site is social media) is to never type anything that you wouldn't say in person.

 

I'm kind of old school when it comes to that. My first social media forum was IRC, and we had a get together once a year for the people in the continental US (car channel). So I just always understood that you may or likely will meet the people you chat with online.

 

Years later when Facebook rolled around, I made it my personal policy not to "friend" people I didn't know in real life. Same rule applies.

 

As I've gotten older, I've found I don't need the extra stress of being an a-hole online. Makes life more enjoyable. Oh, and remember anything online is forever. Don't be surprised when you type your name into google you see stuff you posted 10 years ago pop up. Remember future employers will look at that too. I know I do this for everyone I'm involved with hiring.

 

[DefectiveDave]

Sounds like we just want to keep the community positive, which I think is a great policy. Drama and mudslinging just isn't constructive or desirable.

 

Perhaps it would be advisable as a community to resolve to make more liberal use of the Flag button? I think if content gets flagged heavily it is a pretty clear indicator that it is not the type of post or content that Ballers desire.

 

Of course, it would be up to the @Horton to decide how or if to act, but at least it could send a message and serve as kind of a crowd-sourced, self-policing action.

[Ralph Lee]

At the same time lets not get so politically correct that things get boring!

[Horton]

@Fast351 "I think the golden rule for all "social media" (yes this site is social media) is to never type anything that you wouldn't say in person"

 

EXACTLY!

[Horton]

@DefectiveDave part of the problem is often the content in question look harmless at first glance. Then you really dig into it and realize that you are offending somebody whose contribution and input you really want available to the skiing public as a whole. ( if that makes any sense)

[ToddL]

@Horton, we are all going to wonder: "was it me?"

 

The reality is that every once in a while, you will have to hit the "reset" button. Reset our attention on the rules and focus our behavior on the positive.

[jipster43]

I've had to bite my tongue until the blood ran down my throat a few times, but I've learned to ignore @Horton 's grammar.

[Jdubs]

Maybe I don't log on enough, but I've only seen very positive stuff with the exception of a few political posts, but very few at most.

[Horton]

@Jdubs

The stuff that I am unhappy about is mostly weeks or even months old at this point. I do not want to thrash anyone specifically but I just want everyone to know that THOUSANDS of skiers may ready anything you post.

"the golden rule for all "social media" (yes this site is social media) is to never type anything that you wouldn't say in person" - @Fast351

[Orlando76]

I guess it's the fishermen's fault. We ruin all things waterski related.

[DefectiveDave]

@Horton,

 

That makes sense.

 

To be fair and positive about BoS, I hear proportionally more negative stuff, rumors, mudslinging, etc. in face-to-face conversations than here. However, almost all of this stuff is just stupid, easy to ignore, or based purely on personal preference or bias. Sometimes someone just needs to vent about something and then they are over it.

 

Of course, the flip side is that those conversations generally don't go past me, whereas BoS serves as a continuously accessible global archive of everything we've said for literally anyone to read (so long as they understand english). So the rules for respectable dialogue are definitely different and we need to be mindful of that.

[ToddL]

One of the things that makes BallOfSpray so excellent is the participation and responses by pro athletes and manufacturers' representatives. I hope they truly understand how valuable their inputs are to the community.

[Jody_Seal]

@Horton.

 

We can still harass you right?? B)

[motoskier]

Best website EVER

[Bulldog]

@Horton Well said John!! Thank you again for your passion and hard work. This site is the best in the business because of you....

[Sivota]

This site is an invaluable conduit for the sharing of information that is of great benefit to our sport.

Before somewhat late in life I became enthralled by the lure of skiing a little better, a little faster and with more balance, I enjoyed other sports.

I recall after one significant [to me anyway] and hard fought lacrosse game a 200-odd pound midfield player standing at the bar was clipped around the ear by his coach. His indignant request as to what that was for was met with, 'where's the gap?'. We played lacrosse to enjoy a beer afterwards. If you stand in a closed group no one else can join you. If you leave a gap others, especially members of the opposing team, can join your group. Another gap then should be created. That way the camaraderie enjoyed by so many can grow.

Since I started skiing I have enjoyed universal encouragement and support. Other skiers who have just run 12 metres/35 feet off at 36 ask how my modest set was.

My first slightly more advanced ski came from D3. I enquired whether the proposed ski was too technical for my ability. I received a full and personal answer.

I had a problem with my first Jobe binding. It was faulty, not worn out through repeated use. It was replaced immediately.

Recently I imported from the US a Radar binding from Performance. I received an immediate reply to email enquiry and the binding arrived in the UK two days later.

Anyone who has coached me in my travels around the world has wanted me to improve, and has become just as excited with a modest improvement at my level as they do with the more technically gifted.

If all can follow the social media rules, or treat others as you would have them treat you, we can help each other to enjoy skiing even more.

I find the information available through Horton invaluable, and enjoyable. A little banter goes a long way, provided it remains just that.

Roll on the weekend and the adrenalin of an engine firing into life, a beer to ease the straining sinews and a peek at ballofspray to see what others are up to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skihard]

If @Horton isn't feeling up to the harassment I'm thinking @DumbAss is a great next choice! :)

 

Great site, great people, and the simple fact that we the users of this site get to connect with top industry folks from manufacturing, repairs, pro skiers, and hacks like me makes me love this place even more!

 

Your site Horton you make the rules and don't lose any sleep over tossing anyone who isn't following the rules!

[Tdub]

Great website. I have gained so much info. Keep up the good work. Heading out the door for a set or two.

[Ralph Lee]

Before joining a ski club with other weirdo's like me, BOS was the only thing to prove to my wife I wasn't completely insane!

 

Talking adding a thousands of an inch at the dinner table, practicing my reach as I walk down the hallway, taking a hacksaw to my bindings in between sets. She never knew such people existed.

[sunvalleylaw]

I am thankful the site exists, and appreciative of the information and knowledge I can tap here. I do not think I have ever spoken poorly of a manufacturer or anyone in the business for that matter. I sure hope not. Also, I am learning to listen more and say less overall. I like to learn by talking out loud as it helps me to frame the information in my mind and make sure I understand. But, as I got into it again this year, I realized that I should just read and listen, and work on the foundational stuff mostly for now. Don't get me wrong. I feel free to contribute, but welcome and understand the guidelines set out above. They are necessary for a place like this to be around. Thanks for the efforts @Horton. Not an easy task.

[Drago]

@Ralph Lee for some reason I move bindings and adjust fins on the couch. Probably so I can watch tv too. My wife loves it

[2tracmind]

As one of the many "Obsessed" Ballers, my knowledge and understanding of all things waterskiing and increased dramatically, my skiing performance only modestly due to water access.

If the stars and skiing align this weekend I hope to run my 1st 32 off since i upgraded from 260 hp and hand driving to 350 hp and Perfect Pass 10 years ago. Ball of Spray will get much of the credit. I hope to report on my journey all things learned for BOS.

 

[liquid d]

@Cent ...good luck on the upgrade of your wife!

[Horton]

One more thing

I just got a message from a Baller who was afraid he stepped over the line talking about a manufacturer. His comments were honest and sincere so of course he was not out of line. “That ski does this or that better or worse or different” is what this site is about. All I am asking is don’t be an A-Hole. Don’t say anything you would not say in person.

 

I do not think asking skiers to be civil is asking a lot. 99% of you that post already do it.

 

[Cent]

Liquid d thanks, but the reference was to her ski. After 45 years she is a keeper, and a skier, and a boat driver.

[Bdecker]

Great site @Horton! This site has helped my skiing tremendously.

@Cent congrats on the new ride, you are going to love the it. Hope I'm still chasing buoys in another 30!

[m_pags]

@Horton is there anyway we can be notified when we flag a post, especially the (Disagree). I think alot of them are "fat fingers" as the disgree button is right in the middle of my phone screen when scrolling. I personally did it last week and caught it then clicked it off. But I think alot get missed. I Love the site.

 

Thanks

[ScottScott]

I notice a lot of disagree or dislikes that I am sure were unintentional, not just on my stuff (those are probably intentional....justifiable) but other people's comments that I know wouldn't be disagreed or disliked. (just as above.... bdecker probably didn't mean to disagree that cent's wife was a keeper :) )

 

[Horton]

Sorry guys I don't think there's a tool that will help with the fat finger dislikes

[ToddL]

The issue is people scrolling on phones. They unintentionally hit the dislike because is it on the edge in mobile view.

 

Not sure if you can mess with the message display template. If so, simply sway the order of the reactions from:

Flag · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like Awesome

to:

Flag · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Like Dislike Awesome

 

If you can swap them, then the inadvertent reactions would become "Like"s...

 

[OldboyII]

My highly flamable nature always urges me to start argumetation with all opinions which I disagree, but respecting monastery charter I will try to be the most neutral person :) :) :)

[Glydon]

@Horton the reason I am on this site is because of the manufacturers representation , because of guys like @savaiusini I am not chasing my tail trying to find out information on a 4 year old ski. With that being said I know if I were on a Radar product @eddie_roberts_jr I would be offering the same great feedback. Horton with this site have built something you should be proud of , I am a proud member of this site and for this reason always want to treat the site , members and manufacturers with the respect they deserve . Long live BOS!

[MuskokaKy]

@Horton sending love from Canada! As a newbie to BoS i have found this site irreplaceable; from the great tips/ coaching, to staying up to date in the community. For those of us outside of the States this where we stay connected! Can't wait to hit up McCormicks during the off season! Rock on BoS!

[cragginshred]

I love the site for all the info, technical advice, meeting others in NorCal, watching the trends, Tourny feed links ect all keep me super stoked to get back out on the water!

 

For someone like me who has only been in the course for 4 years and skiing -28 this place is a vital place to keep me super psyched!