JMac - Zero Off insight

[gavski]

Found this the other day on JMac's Blog -

http://www.jmacskis.com

 

It made interesting reading..

 

Which zero off letter and number is best for you? Lots of people don't understand the letters and numbers very well, so picking the right one can be tough. I knew very little about them until last fall, and I have developed a bit of a theory for choosing a letter/number combo. It's a general way to pick a letter because in reality whatever letter you pick you will most likely adapt to the pull type over time.

 

Here's my thoughts on Letter choice:

 

A is a slow speed/long line letter, 32mph or slower. A is on you the latest and the longest, and at those speeds the boat being on you longer is good because you pull longer to carry speed out to the buoy and the zero off will be helping with that.

 

B is a 34mph letter. B is on you sooner than A and releases you sooner as well. At 34mph you need to pull slightly longer than 36, which works well in the B rhythm.

 

C is a 36mph letter. C will pick you up fastest and come off you fastest. The early pick up and the quick release is ideal for the rhythm of a 36mph slalom course, especially at short line. The shorter and faster you go, the less you can pull after the wake, so having the boat release you early frees you up off the wake to let you move without the boat adding late whip/speed.

 

(keep in mind, Zero Off does NOT anticipate your pull, the letters react when you apply pressure which slows the boat)

 

1, 2, 3 will be adjusted as follows:

 

1 for small kids that any boat is strong or for teens and adults on a strong boat, basically if you don't pull hard 1 gives you a bit of an edge in the tug of war with the boat.

 

2 is for a small adjustment if the boat feels too weak at 1

 

3 is for a boat you know is too weak, it gives the boat its full power to keep the timing of the letter and the speed of the boat perfect.

 

Something I like to do is keep 3 for when you need it. If you're a big guy who pulls hard C 3 might feel best even behind a strong 6.2L Nautique 200, but if you go to a tournament on the weekend and they are pulling 5.3L 200's it'll feel softer and you have no way to adjust it. But if you train on C 1 and you go to a tournament with a weaker boat you have the ability to add power by going C 3. That's what makes sense to me and is how I do it, try it out, and hopefully it helps you in the future!

 

Might give it a try - although i have been a longterm user of A2...and i am a 36mph skier...but that could be a throwback to trying to make the boat feel like they did back in perfect pass days....

[wtrskior]

Surprised nobody posted yet. I found the breakdown simple and accurate from my experiences. I typically go B2 because when zo came out it was the default and I wasn't at a level where I really noticed the changes.

 

Love to hear what some more experienced skiers have to say.

 

I also find it interesting he didn't spend much attention to it until recently.

[lpskier]

Nate skis an A setting. I like C2 except behind the 5.3 and 6.2 liter Nautiques, where C2 just doesn't work but B2 is okay.

[LeonL]

He has an unusual insight into it. I've driven many tournaments over the 9 seasons that ZO has been around and I haven't seen skiers use the settings the way JMac seems to advocate. That is, speed being the determining factor for letter selection. Maybe he's right and almost everyone else is wrong. But.....

[Chef23]

I am not great but ski mid 35 off on A2. I think the Denali boys were directing people to A settings at one point. I think at least @Than_Bogan was messing around with A.

 

I don't get to ski enough behind ZO to play around with it.

[Cam]

I normally ski A2 34mph but after reading JMac's post I was having a pretty good set last week so I tried some changes, last 4 passes at 22 off were, A2, A3, B2 & C2, can't say I noticed a massive difference but did find A2 easiest.

Last month I tried C1 and although 22 was easy I couldn't run 28 with it but had no problems when I went back to A2.

[ALPJr]

So I've never skied behind ZO. Only PP and hand. Maybe @SkiJay can write a follow up book about speed control...

[RAWSki]

I started with B2 for the longest time behind my CP 6L. then experimented with B1, B2, B3 and A3. I seemed to ski best at A3 so I stuck with that with a 6L engine in any boat. If it's 5.7L boat I have been going with B2.

[scoke]

Jmac is a badass. Crushed a 4@41 last week in a R tourney! He's run more buoys at 36 than I personally have ever dreamed of BUT regarding Zero Off:

 

It's dangerous to make blanket assumptions of ZO for all skiers based on line length or the speed they ski. Sure he's probably, for fun, run 39/41 at 34 but is he full time running buoys and dialing up ZO, only he knows that.

 

But what we do know is high end 34 mph skiers select Zero Off based on their mental model of watersking and what they are trying to achieve. If they want the load early, C, if they want the load late, A. There are MANY supporting stories of drivers keeping an ear to the trend. The consensus is there isn't a trend just some perceived facts about what Zero Off actually does.

 

More reading in 3 various explanations:

http://www.schnitzskis.com/zerooff.html

 

 

[The_MS]

I use B1 for all 5.7s and C1 for all other boats. Do not count on the pick up point (letter) to be the same on every boat. If I feel out of sync with the boat on my opener I will always move the letter.

[Chef23]

@MS I have heard that and it is one of the things I hate about ZO. I have enough issues with skiing without having to worry about the engine in the boat and worrying that skiing issues are due to the boat and not to poor execution by me.

[Razorskier1]

Agree with @scoke -- it is what your mental model is that counts. I ski at 34mph, but I use the mental model JMac described for 36mph. I want to generate my speed early and glide out to the ball without the boat, so I use C. I used to use C2, but have migrated to C1 as (I think) my technique has improved (staying on top of the ski better). I have skied A1 and A2 as well, and while they can feel good sometimes, they don't feel consistently good. Like @MS said -- kind of have to feel how you are or aren't in sync with the boat.

[Roger]

@Chef23 - It's no different than when we had Perfect Pass, people changed their settings based on the hull/engine combination with that system as well.

[Chef23]

@Roger just because it is no better doesn't mean it is good. I was on a skiing sabbatical when PP came out and didn't come back to skiing tournaments until ZO took hold. I practice behind PP and don't have access to lots of ZO boats to practice behind. Getting behind 4 different brands with 2 to 3 different engines in each boat doesn't happen for me.

 

It would be nice if ZO worked to make A2 (for my example) feel the same behind the different boat/engine combos. A2 should be A2 regardless of the boat/engine combo.

[Roger]

@Chef23 - If it helps, I believe you would normally get the same engine/hull combination and most tournaments. I rarely ski the 6.2 Nautique as all Promo Team members have 5.3 boats. All the Mastercrafts I've skied this year have been 5.7. I did have both a 5.7 and a 6.0 MB this year, but used the same setting for both. For me at least, I use the same setting for all the boats (B2) except the 5.3 Nautique (B1). The 6+ liter versions of these boats just feel easier to me, so I don't make any changes for them. No system is perfect, but both PP and now ZO are better than hand driving in terms of consistent pulls IMO.

[SkiJay]

The most important thing Jmac may have said in that post was:

"Keep in mind, Zero Off does NOT anticipate your pull, the letters react when you apply pressure which slows the boat."

 

Your choice of letter may be more a function of your rope control than boat speed. If you typically ski into a little (or a lot of) slack, the boat doesn't know you are there until you take the hit at the beginning of the cut. C's quick response can help here. If you have Nate's phenomenal rope control, the boat may feel you on the rope by mid turn, and letter A's delayed response may be needed so you can finish turning before the boat responds. None of this has anything to do with boat speed or rope length.

 

Then there's individual preference for "where" each skier can best use the boat's reaction. If your outbound handle connection is poor and the boat is adding energy at that point, it's just wasted energy that's pulling you more out of position; an earlier engine response is better here. If you are slow to get into a strong stacked posture after the ball, a later engine response can help. If you're slow getting stacked and have bad handle control, you should probably not be obsessing over your ZO letter yet. B2 is the most consistent pull among different boats and a great place to work on your technique.

[Wish]

Try them all if you can. Record what you feel. Likes and dislikes, rank them, then go back to the top 2 or 3 and rerank those. You will find your setting. While information on how ZOs settings work is good, I think there are way to many variables like ski, speed, style, rope length, boat and so on that plays a much larger role in the setting that is right for you. @SkiJay makes note of this in his post.

[Razorskier1]

@SKiJay -- connecting the dots between letters and handle control is a very interesting point, and makes complete sense! Nice insight!

[LeonL]

@MS , your comment....don't count on the pickup point being the same on every boat. Do you mean differences between brands or even differences on same brand, engine combo from boat to boat?

[BRY]

@SkiJay One of the all time best BOS quotes there:

 

"If you're slow getting stacked and have bad handle control, you should probably not be obsessing over your ZO letter yet."

 

Needs to get popped on a T-shirt somewhere.

[The_MS]

@LeonL From my experience, it is engine size. I can pretty much use B1 on any 5.7. This spring I started B1 on every boat but by the end of the year, I was starting with C1 on the 6.0 and 6.2s that I skied behind. The new 5.3 200 also felt better when I moved it to C1 after my first pass.

[Horton]

I think I have an additional perspective because of switching skis so often. I don't recommend anybody jump back and forth between skis as much as I do but if you do you will definitely find some skis work better with some letters better than others.

 

Without starting an entire conversation about the definition of "Fast", skis that require a little more strength to make speed from the ball to the wakes seem to work better at a lower letter. Skis that make speed with less effort seem to benefit from a higher letter. I think this idea runs parallel to @skijay's comments above.

[Horton]

J Mac's comments make pretty good sense to me but I know at least on Pro level skier who thinks about it in a totally different way. This skier (who I will not name in case I misunderstand the idea) says he likes A because he wants more pull from the boat after the second wake and out to the ball. This idea seems totally whacky pants to me but it comes from a guy with skill and knowledge way beyond mine.

[wtrskior]

@Horton I don't think that's a totally different way of thinking about it, they both understand what the letters are doing. As an examole Nate using A makes sense because there isn't a skier who generates more angle, as early as he does, he's spiked ZO early so A isnt going to react like it might for Jason who has a tendency to wheelie the finish of his turns at harder passes (and thus not generate as much angle, as quick as Nate). Jmac is also a bigger, stronger guy and pulls harder than Nate.

 

I was intrigued by his description because I use B2 almost exclusively but eqrliet this year when I get a strong boat and the line gets shorter I started going to C1 based on advice. I typicallt don't have to make that adjustment on a 5.7 200 but I notice it helps immensely on a 5.3 or even a 6.0 200.

 

 

 

[skibug]

I was told that Andy Mapple's influence on the development of ZO was all based on C2 being the closest to the best hand drivers prior to speed control.

[Drago]

...but C2 the first year is A2 now :/

[MISkier]

@Drago, there wasn't a number the first year - only A, B, C. A and C were switched for the next version and then the numbers were added. If someone said C2 was Andy's target, it would be the current C2.