AWSA needs 8,000 members by 12/31/17 or we loose seats on USAWS!

[JeffSurdej]

That's right, its a big round # and it's going to take a 20% increase in membership by end of year or AWSA will loose 3 seats on the USAWS board which could be detrimental to AWSA. Right now we have 5 seats. So let's hear your ideas on how we can increase membership right now!

[mnewth]

Talking to Mike O'Connor, he summed the problem up pretty good to me. The two major things halting growth are Access and Exposure.

 

Access: There aren't nearly as many open ski clubs across the country. It's hard for collegiate kids to find places to ski. We're constantly bringing new people into the sport (we have 1200 collegiate kids in tournaments the past year - compared to 6000 in AWSA) - so we should be seeing growth of people shifting into AWSA each year. Yet... that isn't happening. I'm sure we could all agree that the types of activities happening at AWSA tournaments and NCWSA tournaments does differ slightly... but we could probably be capturing more of those individuals.

 

Exposure: We don't have nearly the impact on in the media as we used to with the televised pro tours. What would it take to get Nationals on cable television? I've heard people talk about the fact that even with a handful of lakes running simultaneously, that a waterski tournament just isn't interesting enough to make it on television. But if we cut up a tournament to just the actual skiing - removed some opening passes, and used editing to build the tension a little... I think it would be more popular than Professional Darts, Drone Racing, and some of the other junk that's currently on. I'm guessing bringing some major $$$ in terms of sponsors might make this a bit more viable too.

 

--

 

Who's responsibility is it to make all this happen though?

[thager]

Secede!

[Kelvin]

@JeffSurdej Help us with the math on this. Why would we loose over 60% of the seats we currently have? What is the size of AWSA compared to the other sport divisions? What is the current makeup of the board seats

[Horton]

@mnewth

Here in SoCal access is a huge problem. You hit the nail on the head but how to change that is WAY OFF TOPIC.

 

TV TV TV everyone please forget TV. It is no longer the answer. The world is not the same place it was when TV was good to water skiing. The culture and economy has changed. I am so sick of hearing that if we only had TV then the sport would be saved. That is a myth. This is also WAY OFF TOPIC.

 

Back on topic

 

@JeffSurdej Ideas to grow membership?

Free membership to everyone who buys a high end ski

Free membership to everyone who buys a 3 event end boat (I know this idea has been offered to the board at least once and ignored)

Keep the College Kids we have

Get back the College alumni we have lost

 

The big one.... do a better job of explaining to the current and future members why they need to belong. If skiers only join so they can ski sanctioned events and get their name listed on the rankings list that is a hard sell.

 

[oldjeep]

So what exactly do you get for your $80? And is there any reason that skiers who have no interest in tournaments would join? 8000 people is a pretty high number, although I'm surprised that the actually have 40,000 members already. ( assuming my math is correct.)

[JeffSurdej]

@Horton ok lets say we give the free, should that include the magazine and/or regional guide? The finacial investment of the free has to be analyzed.

[mnewth]

@Horton

 

Fair enough. I absolutely agree that we need to grab the low hanging fruit by working to pull in the collegiate kids.

 

Is there any value in trying to promote overall growth of the sport at the recreational skier level?

[Horton]

@JeffSurdej If the magazine is not cash positive because of ad dollars I would stop printing it. If it is about ad dollars then the advertisers will get more exposure. Magazines in general are a dying industry and I do not believe many skiers really care about TheWaterSkier any more. Time marches on.

 

As for the guide. I would have stopped printing it 10 years ago.

 

Sorry to be Capt. Negative so far. I do really appreciate your posts on these subjects but I do not believe either of the print publications are compelling in 2017.

[LeonL]

Yeah @JeffSurdej , like @Kelvin said, help us with the math. If we fail to increase membership by 20% we loose 60% of our seats?

[jedgell]

So, what's the issue? Does it matter if AWSA loses these seats? How does affect us? Maybe this is a good thing to force some changes.

[John Brooks]

@JeffSurdej I need to agree with @Horton. In fact I would suggest giving all college grads 10 years of membership free, whether they were on the ski team or not. No need for the magazine or the guide, I don't need it either.

[lpskier]

$10 first year membership. Give them a free t shirt so they get something that they'll use. Or an optional token for one free entry fee or ski lesson ( need to co-op existing tournament sponsors and ski schools. Theoretically they'll earn it back in future entries or lessons) Publications are a la carte at an additional cost.

 

I disagree with @Horton about the Tournament Guide but the Mag should be on line only.

[aupatking]

I don't read the magazine when I get it, and I don't even know what the regional guide is, so I must not think it's all that worth a read when I get it.

When I'm looking for tournaments I either use the app or the site.

Free is probably not the best way to look at it, as I'm sure the manufacturers wouldn't be totally averse to sharing the fee. I'd also say it should not be for high-end skis, specifically, but maybe midline or even lower line skis. This would introduce them to a part of skiing that I'm certain they don't know exists. Those of us who buy the high-end, have at least some likelihood of already being a member. Maybe a free or half price tournament entry fee?

I've said it before, just about everyone you'll ever speak to has skied, in some capacity. But, when I tell them i ski competitively, they don't even understand the concept.

I agree with you @Horton that our shot at tv is currently over, but I don't understand how I see these videos from the 90's with thousands in attendance, where the love went? Why did people show up to those big Coors Light events? Was it something other than the skiing? Because the skiing hasn't changed. Should we have not chased the X-Games dragon?

My opinion, followed by a suggestion, ending with a question. Sorry, but I think some of our answer does lie in finding the undoing, and rectifying that.

The tournaments may be the very thing that save us, but they've got to become open to the public events again. A tournament in a subdivision just is taking the greatest asset we have and putting a wall and gate around it.

Sorry this got long

[RazorRoss3]

I guarantee you won't get college kids to stick with the sport with a free t-shirt. College kids don't stop skiing because they don't like it, they drop out because it's too expensive, access is too hard, and at the end of the day the best part about collegiate skiing is the people you're skiing with, not the skiing. Hate to be the downer but the way the sport exists today you won't have any better luck keeping college grads in the sport this year as you have in the past 10.

[John Brooks]

I don't know about many of you, but my entry to the sport was via public water and an active club on a large public lake. It seems like we need to find ways that make belonging to AWSA worthwhile for all those folks skiing on public lakes. Manufacturer demo programs for skis, equipment, boats, ect, designed to interact and promote some level of the sport. I think there are a lot more people out there skiing that are off the radar.

[skiinxs]

@JeffSurdej To reduce costs for the "free memberships" with ski or boat purchase, make the magazine and regional guide electronic only for those memberships. Heck, save a ton of money and make it electronic only for all.

[6balls]

I don't know of a single Iowa ski team alum other than @razorross3 (and myself) who skied tourneys post college. Mitch graduated a few years ago and I graduated in '95 and both of us skied for Iowa.

In college it's not about the competition for most. It's about friends, sun, a party and throw in some boats and skiing. That sounds like public lake living...and come to think of it I do know alumni enjoying the water via skiing/boating/living...but they are not AWSA members and I can't think there is any reason for them to be.

If I didn't want the option to ski a tourney here or there it wouldn't be worth it to me, either, other than just trying to be supportive.

 

[RazorRoss3]

Exactly, it's about the fun with a group of good friends where you are all just chilling at the lake taking turns hitting the water. I enjoy going to tournaments so I keep the membership but in all honesty I could have about the same amount of fun with the sport just going to a lake a skiing with good friends all day. My goals would be the same regardless, continue to improve and have fun doing it. That's why most people that collegiate introduces to the sport stay with it in college, who doesn't enjoy a fun day at the lake? That isn't what AWSA offers post grad.

[MrJones]

I like the magazine, but I'm old school.

 

Could it be an option? My other sport organization is the United States Practical Shooting Assn. They have a magazine and no magazine option. I think it's like $35 with the mag and maybe $15-20 without. You are a member and have access to matches/scoring/ranking with the cheaper version, just no mag.

[BCM]

I agree with @aupatking those buying a new high end ski are likely members or know enough about membership to make a conscious decision to not be a member. During the years after college when I wasn't a member, my ski gear came from SIA.

 

I would happily opt out of the printed guide and magazine without a decrease in cost if the extra money could help the organization. I am already paying for it and not reading it, might as well let AWSA do something with the money rather than mailing it to my recycle bin.

[Texas6]

On the magazine; I honestly don't see why it's a discussion topic if it costs as much as I've heard it does. You can do everything you need to online. Cut your losses, BUS101

[skidawg]

My magazine and regional guide go straight into the crapper, absolutely useless. All the tournaments are on the website. The mag has 1-2 good pics per issue...blah. The only single reason to join usaski is if you ski tournaments and want to see your name on a ranking list. Period.

[disland]

What percent of exisiting members dont ski tournaments?

[mnewth]

@disland 50% of members don't ski tourneys on the AWSA side.

[disland]

50% dont ski tournaments?? Thats incredible. I am not sure about that data

 

. How are we counting wives and kids of tournament skiers?

[JeffSurdej]

I will find out more financial details on the mag and guide, I do believe it is ad positive, if we cut the mag and guide then we also loose sponsor dollars so in the end it doesn't change the bottom line, but I'll verify that to be true.

 

As for the seats on USAws at risk, we would not loose 60% of our votes but we would loose 3 seats, so yes overall AWSA will still have the most voting power but instead of 5 heads in the room we would only have 2 and those 2 heads would now pull all the voting power for AWSA.

 

So @Horton lets say we start giving these free memberships to boats buyers and ski buyers and post college kids, this doesn't help our bottom line at all, so would the theory be to give them one year free and hope we hook them from there? And would the theory be to at least increase our membership to a level where sponsors get more excited and we increase our contact database? Are you thinking just first year free? The boat companies and ski companies I'm pretty sure will support us if we want to throw a brochure in and give a free membership, but building the cost of the membership into the purchase is another story.

 

 

[Horton]

Come on @JeffSurdej you are from Chicago... It is just like dealing crack. Give the kids just a taste for free and then charge full price after they are hooked.

 

Seriously, I am suggesting something like offering the most basic membership for a year to new boat buyers. After they accept the hard part is explaining to them why they should rejoin every year after.

 

For the purchase of a new ski perhaps is it only a weekend membership so they can attend a tournament.

 

As for the bottom line.... I do not know what costs can be cut but losing a few dollars now to bring in new members long term seems like a good trade-off. The way I understand it we are in crisis and it may be time for some bold strokes.

[Texas6]

+1 on "free memberships" with high end ski purchases. If you ONLY gave free memberships to people who have NEVER been a USAWS member, you really have zero to lose. They've never competed before, but might now that they have a new ski and membership, and you either convert a new free member to a renewal at years end or you don't. What a great way to expose people to USAWS, the prospect of a tourney, and maybe a renewal at years end that you NEVER would have had otherwise. Everybody wins. Make it a half year membership if you want. No better target prospect than that

[Horton]

Oooo yes. Only brand new members

[6balls]

I get a bunch of aviation related coupons n stuff with my AOPA membership (and a magazine, too). Hotel chains, rental cars, fuel etc.

Maybe coupons for companies like masterline, radar--doesn't have to be those two specifically you get the idea.

First tourney discounts on entry? Additional refund for proof of second tourney?

Just thinkin out loud.

[JeffSurdej]

@Horton not moving this to a new thread but starting one based on this free membership idea, if we don't change our membership package and what it offers I think this will fail. Our membership is a pure competition only membership, you don't compete, you don't need, so before we go out and market what we offer I think we first have to improve our product otherwise our rate of those that get hooked will be low. it's going to be hard to turn thousands of people into competitors but there are millions of waterskiers out there enjoying life on the water. What can we offer them? new thread

[MillerTime38]

Give current members some incentive to get new members signed up, maybe a small credit that could be used toward the skiers membership or toward entry fees on a tournament,

 

For example, if I get two new members to sign up I get a $20 credit for each skier so I can use $40 toward my membership or a tournament.

[gregy]

What about a web based magazine that could be available to anyone, not just members. You have this magazine that is a marketing tool but you limit to members.

[Kelvin]

@gregy I have been making that suggestion in the summer/winter meetings for years. The response from the top is that is one of the few perks of being a member other than the ability to ski tournaments. I agree with you and suggest a "short link" to each issue should be posted on BOS to reach more of the non-member masses.

[skiinxs]

@JeffSurdej Assuming the goal is to retain the membership after the first year a process needs to be developed to get there, with some goals and measurements to detemine if the process is working or needs to be reevaluated and fine tuned. Some things I can think of off the top of my head.

Free 1 year membership with a high-end ski or new boat (maybe first time members only as mentioned above or possibly also those that haven't been a member for a set number of years to try to re-establish some prior members).

Discount off the entry fees for their first tournament, or possibly free grass-roots entry. This could be reimbursed back to the LOC as a 50% credit on their next year dues (cost sharing by the LOC for increased entries)

Personal contact by their personal "concierge" to call them and walk them through the process of finding their first tournament, helping them enter, giving them information on the site and what to expect, what to bring, when to show up, and anything else to make them comfortable coming to a tournament. This could even be having them come to watch one before they ski and have someone on-site prearranged to talk to them and "show them the ropes:)" so to speak. This could be someone from the closest club to their address or even someone from the state federation where they live. The state federation could assign this to the president, membership board member, or possibly a new board position with only this duty at the state level.

Put a contest in place for all of the state federations or LOC's with a nice prize (in addition to the benefits they will gain from increased membership) for the highest percent conversion rate. In other words the state or LOC with the highest percent of free memberships actually paying for the second year membership get a prize. This prize could even be self funded, i.e. 10% of all dues paid in their first paid year after going through the "personal concierge" process. Some tracking mechanism would need to be developed to identify someone who has been through this process.

Goals for 2nd year membership (first paid year), and longer term retention should be developed and measured against.

[ski6jones]

@skiinxs, #3 is an especially great idea.

[bigtex2011]

Just curious @JeffSurdej .. not trying to be a buzzkill. Why do you think we have lost so many members. How many people bailed in '08 due to economy and ZO. How does AWSA come up with the cost of a membership. What does that membership offer to its members. I have ideas but am curious why membership has bailed in such large numbers over the last 10 years. Lake access has been the same for as long as I can remember.

 

Thx Chris

[bojans]

First off, I am not throwing stones here, the people at USA Waterski and AWSA are in a tough position and I thank you for your continued work. That being said I, as with most others on this site, belong to AWSA for 2 reasons, tournaments and my club requires all skiers to be AWSA members for insurance purposes. You are probably not going to grow membership targeting people like us.

 

What is compelling to new members? I had to go onto the website to see what the benefits (other than insurance, and the ability to enter tournaments) were, this is what I found Pages of "benefits" which frankly I stopped reading after a page and half because it wasn't compelling. That begs the question, are the benefits not presented correctly or are there not enough benefits?

 

A few thoughts on what may help grow membership.

- Can AWSA facilitate road tax refunds for fuel that was used in boats?

- Would it be feasible to produce some member only coaching videos, not just for skiing, but driving, boat care, intro to tournaments, etc?

- If regional guides and magazine are not a positive return based on advertising dollars, either stop printing them or offer a discounted membership if people elect not to receive the printed pieces. Online availability is more than sufficient.

- Industry involvement. Can you get Goode, Radar, Masterline, D3 etc to offer something for members who buy their products? It doesn't have to be a huge offer, a few % off, free next day shipping, anything that has a perceived value.

 

Best of luck and god speed.

[ToddL]

If USAWS was a for profit business on the stock exchange, would you buy it's stock? No? Why not?

 

My point is that stop thinking of these organizations as "governing bodies", and start thinking of them as competitive businesses which need to be solvent and add shareholder value.

 

AWSA is competing for people's time and money. AWSA's competition is against every other hobby/sport/activity which we could give our time and money to.

 

Like any free-trade market, the market demand/supply will dictate the purchase price.

What does the $80/yr fee worth to your market? Is demand up or down?

 

If AWSA's market share is shrinking then either the price is too high for the market demand for the product you are selling or the competition has a better product at a price that the market is willing to pay.

 

 

To @Rico's point... The reason why Apple, Yetti, and Go Pro are such hits is that owning their product is a status symbol and a desired image of membership into that identity. That's branding. The masses flocked to those brands because the product is cool but even more so because the brand say's that I'm cool. There is little if anything about USAWS/AWSA brand which helps identify its members as cool.

[PurdueSkier]

@JeffSurdej - What is the membership and status of INT? Are they also suffering? I assume that both USAW and INT are directly competing with each other for members. If you want more members, why not look into merging. We are both fighting for the same sponsors and same skiers. In some cases, we are also holding basically the same events.

 

[kurt]

@rico usaws charges $150.00 and the region charges $75.00. per sanction.

Why? thats a good question.

[DaveD]

To keep the college kids in the sport after graduation, how about coming up with a division that allows them to ski slower speeds. For the kids that are starting to ski the course in college, skiing at 36mph (and 34 for the women) feels almost impossible. Especially those that have limited access to time in the course.

[MattP]

@daveD not hard to do now that we have ZBS. NCWSA used ZBS last year as well. It worked well. I did not see too many kids use it, but it will take time for the teams to fully understand the benefit.

[tap]

A little bit of thinking out loud, as in non-vetted thoughts...

 

@Horton As far as giving away a membership with each new boat or high end ski purchase I think you're talking metaphorical pennies in return. For real change you need to think bigger and more long term. I think any idea for real change needs to be grounded with real data. I just tallied all the skiers off the current slalom ranking list (yes I only did slalom because I don't have hours of free time). I suspect many people have done this from time to time, but you can't dismiss the visual point it makes. If you want to grow the sport you need to go where the energy is, COLLEGIATE is the growth engine.

 

 

@JeffSurdej I guess I could see a membership tier focused towards the recreational skier, but I have no idea what that would look like. Sanctioning of tournaments, governing of rules, and maintaining the rankings is the core of the value AWSA provides. I'd be impressed (pleasantly) if you can find something of real value that the non-tournament skier would pay for.

 

A 20% increase in membership within one year is certainly a lofty goal. I have my doubts, but then again a few big ideas like collegiate alumni regional's (awesome event by the way) and you never know. However, I don't think flash moments of growth is true sustainable long term growth. Seems to me that AWSA should either focus all their efforts on retention of the collegiate group (said many times before, but the point is better presented with the data), or simply growing the collegiate group.

 

I have a narrow view, but I basically only see three means that people start tournament skiing: their parents make them when they're kids, they join a college team, or they get a wild hair sometime later in life when they can afford the high cost of entry. Out of these three, growing and retaining the collegiate stream seams like the best target. I tend to think that there is a critical mass to retaining collegiate skiers beyond college. The main reason I pay to ski tournaments is to compete against the friends I made back in college and that list is getting pretty slim, and that is only possible through the rankings list.

 

As far as actual ideas (the hard part):

- Identify the top ten largest colleges/universities that don't currently have a team/club but have a body of water within 30 miles suitable for skiing. Post fliers and offer support to any student willing to start a team. Help find water access, help find a boat, help structure a club that can grow on it's own.

- Waive the entry fees for any collegiate skier who shows up to any non-collegiate tournament (I think this is huge because it encourages the retention into regular tournament skiing). I never heard of competitive skiing until I went to college, and I certainly never skied an AWSA tournament until I was almost out of college.

- Use AWSA membership money to offer financial support to any private ski lake willing to host a collegiate team as their practice or tournament site.

- Offer on-site support (send out a tournament director with lots of experience) to any site willing to host their first collegiate event.

- Very lofty idea... start digging lakes near major universities that don't currently have a team/club.

 

My collegiate days are far behind me. It just seems if you want to grow the sport you have to go where the energy is. I pretty ignorant about how AWSA functions, I honestly have no idea where NCWSA ends and AWSA begins... is NCWSA a subset of AWSA? Regardless, collegiate is what fills the ranks.

[wtrskr]

This is coming from a person that was a AWSA member back in college but is not anymore.

 

The reason I'm not a member is because I don't ski tourneys, thus don't need a membership. I would probably ski in a tourney here or there if 1.) I could get deeper into the course or 2.) If tourneys were cheaper (if the cost wasn't way higher than skiing with my buds with a portable course on public water). To me the key to growing the membership is the first one, increasing the number of high-level skiers and those that grew up competing in the sport. In order to do that, you have to get people hooked while they are young, well before college age.

 

I used to be of the if-you-build-it-they-will-come attitude. More courses in public places = more skiers. I've changed my tune a bit as I think about it. My local community just built a big outdoor hockey rink, for example, and I'm finding that me and my kids are pretty much the only ones that use it.

 

I believe the skiing community could benefit from following the recent trends of other sports in the US (select soccer, AAU Basketball, etc.). Parents tend to be very busy and are willing to spend a decent amount of money to send their kids to someone else to get coached. And they seem to be doing so at younger and younger ages. In other words, I think there needs to be more youth-oriented waterski programs that are marketed to anyone that wants to join. At least in my area, I am aware of similar opportunities for show skiing but not three event.

 

Send the kids to "practice" a couple of times a week and to competitions here and there. Ski behind mommy and daddy's boat on the weekends.

 

If there are enough of these programs around the country, and they are run well and marketed well, the sport will grow and AWSA membership will grow.

 

 

[unksskis]

I feel like we're still missing the main critical factor, and that is the inability to retain members. We need figure out how to retain members first and foremost before trying to increase and attract new members. This has been the main factor to the eventual downfall, remaining too focused on what it takes to gain new members, all the while neglecting current membership needs, requests, etc. This has been an evolving process, it can't reverse overnight.

 

My best suggestion are Ski Clubs. We need to fully support the public/social Ski Club, and work to get Clubs, courses, possibly jumps, on public waterways. That is the entrance into AWSA/Competitive/Show/Collegiate skiing. This usually gives affordable access to water, boat, equipment, etc; (and we could possibly offer benefits to encourage people to volunteer use of their boat).

 

Increase the social aspect of it, make it a fun organization/club to be in, similar to what attracts many to collegiate clubs. This could help bring together skiers of all walks and parts of life, encourage getting on the water, increase access to courses, and get a larger body of membership working for easier access. These have been in existence, I just feel they were abandoned by the governing body in preference to more "private" clubs, and are now dwindling on the verge of extinction.

 

Work for, support and grow the local "Public" Ski Clubs, and the competitive portion of AWSA will mutually benefit. This won't happen overnight, but I feel is a longer term solution.

[ToddL]

@unksskis - USAWS/AWSA Retention. Good insight. Promoting a product that had questionable retention means adding costs of transition in/out as a higher volume of people pass through the organization. Growth goals assume that awareness and driving perceived value will be met by confirmed value once engaged into the organization. If that perceived value is not their once they are in, we are wasting time trying to promote a non-values product/service.

[Horton]

@tap

I agree that college is a huge opportunity but what you are missing is all the people who ski and ski balls but do not belong to AWSA. They already love skiing but for whatever reason they do not belong to the association. If they just purchased a $2,000 ski or a $75,000 boat they are likely to be interested in what we do. They just need a push.

[Texas6]

Their are a heck of a lot more high end skis sold than there are USAWS competitors - that is a huge target audience but I don't have the data to quantify it. The collegiate is as well, and more easily quantifiable. I don't think we are limited to one:).