Do we really want the sport of water-skiing to grow?

[gt2003]

@skihard , don't encourage him!

 

@Horton , Look at his status, "Crazy Baller". Obviously he is a little off kilter!

[Wolfeie]

Is there really a decline in water skiing, or is there a decline in participation in sanctioned tournaments? Take Ski West Village for example. The participation in water skiing by owners vs, wake boarding and tubing has never been higher. Ten years ago there was a handfull of serious skiers hanging out at our competition lake (lake#3.) Now lake 3 is the busiest lake in our complex. Most weekends all of the docks fill up with owners that take skiing serious, but have no desire to compete in tournaments. You will generally find 4-5 196's, 2-3 200's sprinkled in with a Malibu and Mastercraft. You will find most owners have the current model skis's and accessories. The waterski industry is doing OK if you

you just look at Ski West which is just one private complex.

 

With 37 families at Ski West, only 1 family are serious participants in tournaments. We have a few other skiers that may do a few tournaments a year. If there were no ASWA tournaments it would have no effect. We are there because we love to ski, we have an great site with some of the best skiing conditions you can find any place. We would still be buying boats, skis etc...most of us would rather hang out at lake#3 and ski as much as we want, when we want, rather than travel to another site, spend money, wait around, work,

sit in a judging tower etc..

 

I think the addition of private lakes may be seen as an barrier to competition, but certainly

not to the general sport of skiing

[Wolfeie]

Is there really a decline in water skiing, or is there a decline in participation in sanctioned tournaments? Take Ski West Village for example. The participation in water skiing by owners vs, wake boarding and tubing has never been higher. Ten years ago there was a handfull of serious skiers hanging out at our competition lake (lake#3.) Now lake 3 is the busiest lake in our complex. Most weekends all of the docks fill up with owners that take skiing serious, but have no desire to compete in tournaments. You will generally find 4-5 196's, 2-3 200's sprinkled in with a Malibu and Mastercraft. You will find most owners have the current model skis's and accessories. The waterski industry is doing OK if you

you just look at Ski West which is just one private complex.

 

With 37 families at Ski West, only 1 family are serious participants in tournaments. We have a few other skiers that may do a few tournaments a year. If there were no ASWA tournaments it would have no effect. We are there because we love to ski, we have an great site with some of the best skiing conditions you can find any place. We would still be buying boats, skis etc...most of us would rather hang out at lake#3 and ski as much as we want, when we want, rather than travel to another site, spend money, wait around, work,

sit in a judging tower etc..

 

I think the addition of private lakes may be seen as an barrier to competition, but certainly

not to the general sport of skiing

[The_MS]

@ToddL What we need is a OKE type of county park system across the country.

[The_MS]

@ToddL What we need is a OKE type of county park system across the country.

[Wolfeie]

To coin a famous movie line "build it and they will come" In California, land and water

are very expensive. Try finding a municipality with land, water and money close to a good size population.

[Wolfeie]

To coin a famous movie line "build it and they will come" In California, land and water

are very expensive. Try finding a municipality with land, water and money close to a good size population.

[wtrskior]

Look at the demographics, look at the pro tournaments and amateur tournaments.

 

Outside very few small areas all are decreasing (or increasing as far as demographics).

 

Access is the issue and will continue to be. @Ob1 has said this many times and is entitled to his opinion but it's a self Centred myopic view of the sport.

 

If we don't at the very least replace those that are falling off you will have fewer places to ski and less ability to improve as there are fewer pros to teach you.

 

Things need to change or it will be doomed eventually

[wtrskior]

Look at the demographics, look at the pro tournaments and amateur tournaments.

 

Outside very few small areas all are decreasing (or increasing as far as demographics).

 

Access is the issue and will continue to be. @Ob1 has said this many times and is entitled to his opinion but it's a self Centred myopic view of the sport.

 

If we don't at the very least replace those that are falling off you will have fewer places to ski and less ability to improve as there are fewer pros to teach you.

 

Things need to change or it will be doomed eventually

[Monkstr6100]

Its easy for me to say "yes for sure grow the sport!" from the outside looking in. I ski public water only. There is one course about an hr from my house, otherwise a ski friend has a portable, but %95 of the time we just free ski about 3-4 days a week. I would love to be able to get involved with a local private site (there are a couple in my area) but they seem to be VERY private! But once again, its easy for me to say "I would let anyone that had a passion to ski come to my site if I had one!" being that I do NOT. And I don't think ski boat mfg companies want the sport to grow. It seems they get more expensive every year. How does a guy convince his wife that a small, less space, less family friendly direct drive is the best bet when now the (also crazy priced) wake boats with HUGE family space is about the same price? It seems if a boat doesn't cost enough it must not be a good one. And yes I am a GEKKO owner and love my "cheap" boat! Watersports in general are not cheap, but if they keep headed in this direction only the ELITE will be doing any of them.

[Monkstr6100]

Its easy for me to say "yes for sure grow the sport!" from the outside looking in. I ski public water only. There is one course about an hr from my house, otherwise a ski friend has a portable, but %95 of the time we just free ski about 3-4 days a week. I would love to be able to get involved with a local private site (there are a couple in my area) but they seem to be VERY private! But once again, its easy for me to say "I would let anyone that had a passion to ski come to my site if I had one!" being that I do NOT. And I don't think ski boat mfg companies want the sport to grow. It seems they get more expensive every year. How does a guy convince his wife that a small, less space, less family friendly direct drive is the best bet when now the (also crazy priced) wake boats with HUGE family space is about the same price? It seems if a boat doesn't cost enough it must not be a good one. And yes I am a GEKKO owner and love my "cheap" boat! Watersports in general are not cheap, but if they keep headed in this direction only the ELITE will be doing any of them.

[The_MS]

Most private lakes are not solely owned. They are owned by associations that comprise of lot owners and home owners. Usually a club boat that is owned by all. Not a lot of water time available when everyone is skiing. I finally moved to TLE2 when I was in my 40s after skiing on public lakes my whole life. @"Jack Kinne" and me free skied until we bought a portable. Then we found a few lakes to install perm courses on. When we moved on, we left them in and many Minn skiers/ballers that ski in the west suburbs still use them today.

 

 

 

 

[The_MS]

Most private lakes are not solely owned. They are owned by associations that comprise of lot owners and home owners. Usually a club boat that is owned by all. Not a lot of water time available when everyone is skiing. I finally moved to TLE2 when I was in my 40s after skiing on public lakes my whole life. @"Jack Kinne" and me free skied until we bought a portable. Then we found a few lakes to install perm courses on. When we moved on, we left them in and many Minn skiers/ballers that ski in the west suburbs still use them today.

 

 

 

 

[Horton]

@gt2003

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

[Horton]

@gt2003

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

[Horton]

@skihard wise

[Horton]

@skihard wise

[Texas6]

Wow, was that a Triple Panda? Nicely done @gt2003 congrats! I know of only one or maybe two triple panda award receipients ever. Big day for you

[Texas6]

Wow, was that a Triple Panda? Nicely done @gt2003 congrats! I know of only one or maybe two triple panda award receipients ever. Big day for you

[gt2003]

All is now good with the world :D

[gt2003]

All is now good with the world :D

[gt2003]

Uhm, I'm the proud owner of that THANK YOU!

 

[gt2003]

Uhm, I'm the proud owner of that THANK YOU!

 

[Horton]

Access is what it is. @gt2003 is not in the real world if he thinks the HOA from his local private ski lake is going to let the public in. It will always be up to the individual owner to invite new people to experience the private lake experience. It is up to individuals and the culture of this forum and the sport as a whole to help new skiers get started.

 

Do we need the sport to grow or at least not shrink? Let me answer it this way – this web site is maybe the only thing you do in skiing that is free. It costs you nothing unless you donate or get stickers. If the sport really takes a nose dive BallOfSpray goes away but you can still ski. What happens when you ski finally dies? There will be less ski companies and the skis will cost more. What happens when you want to go to a tournament? There may still be some but they will be farther from you house and since there will be less skiers the cost of entry will be more. What happens when you are ready for a new boat? There may be no such thing as a new ski boat. You will have to refurbish and old boat plus used boat prices will likely go up. What happens when you want coaching? And so on.

 

[Horton]

Access is what it is. @gt2003 is not in the real world if he thinks the HOA from his local private ski lake is going to let the public in. It will always be up to the individual owner to invite new people to experience the private lake experience. It is up to individuals and the culture of this forum and the sport as a whole to help new skiers get started.

 

Do we need the sport to grow or at least not shrink? Let me answer it this way – this web site is maybe the only thing you do in skiing that is free. It costs you nothing unless you donate or get stickers. If the sport really takes a nose dive BallOfSpray goes away but you can still ski. What happens when you ski finally dies? There will be less ski companies and the skis will cost more. What happens when you want to go to a tournament? There may still be some but they will be farther from you house and since there will be less skiers the cost of entry will be more. What happens when you are ready for a new boat? There may be no such thing as a new ski boat. You will have to refurbish and old boat plus used boat prices will likely go up. What happens when you want coaching? And so on.

 

[Texas6]

I know numerous Ballers, myself included, who are more than generous with their time, their boats, boat gas , etc. Hell I enjoy skiing with new people - opening up people's neighborhoods to the general public will never happen and it isn't the answer

[Texas6]

I know numerous Ballers, myself included, who are more than generous with their time, their boats, boat gas , etc. Hell I enjoy skiing with new people - opening up people's neighborhoods to the general public will never happen and it isn't the answer

[DW]

So perhaps the question might be "how to keep the industry/sport viable and vibrant without reducing access & raising costs". I don't think there is a simple answer and other sports are facing the same concerns.

[DW]

So perhaps the question might be "how to keep the industry/sport viable and vibrant without reducing access & raising costs". I don't think there is a simple answer and other sports are facing the same concerns.

[gt2003]

Just know, if I had even one feeling you might have hurt part of it. However, my soul is kind of proud to be a triple panda award recipient.

 

I think you all are blowing my idea way out of proportion and maybe, as presented, it's not feasible. All lakes that I've been to are different, some have HOA's, some don't, some have houses, some don't, some are rarely skied on before noon, some are super busy and can't spare the time, some are dead mid-week. All I'm saying is as a populous, let's leverage the down time if it's present and promote our sport. Share the resources we have to the most of our abilities and don't be afraid to put ideas on the table, even if it's the HOA or lake owners table. There will be obstacles, negotiations and understandings, no doubt. However, if it's not presented in some form, whatever form will work best for your lake, it definitely won't happen, I know that.

[gt2003]

Just know, if I had even one feeling you might have hurt part of it. However, my soul is kind of proud to be a triple panda award recipient.

 

I think you all are blowing my idea way out of proportion and maybe, as presented, it's not feasible. All lakes that I've been to are different, some have HOA's, some don't, some have houses, some don't, some are rarely skied on before noon, some are super busy and can't spare the time, some are dead mid-week. All I'm saying is as a populous, let's leverage the down time if it's present and promote our sport. Share the resources we have to the most of our abilities and don't be afraid to put ideas on the table, even if it's the HOA or lake owners table. There will be obstacles, negotiations and understandings, no doubt. However, if it's not presented in some form, whatever form will work best for your lake, it definitely won't happen, I know that.

[Orlando76]

I live across the street of a private lake in a rural area, two ski courses, crystal clear, full of bass. I've done everything I could think of to get on this lake to teach my son about the water, fishing, skiing. Ha, the lake side residents pretty much have told me to F*** off. I'm the trash across the street but they sure want my signature for petitions. NOBODY uses the lake except two skiers every other day.

 

One day one of the skiers drives by and sees my SN in the drive way and invites me to ski with them the next morning. 138 homes and the only resident inviting me over was the skier. I am very thankful for these two skiers and the knowledge and the opportunities they have since given me. We ski together 1-3x a week on perfect private water. This guy is a true Ambassador to skiing and he has introduced me around to a few Big Dawgs who have given me opportunities as well on their private water.

 

I sure would like to see a organization like AWSA lobby some of these communities who own the access to these private lakes with courses to open their ramps 1 day a week, whether a week day or weekend for $20-40 per boat. What's wrong with that? I bet every HOA meeting there's crus of how they're short on money blah blah. They'll make money and we could at least get an opportunity.

[Orlando76]

I live across the street of a private lake in a rural area, two ski courses, crystal clear, full of bass. I've done everything I could think of to get on this lake to teach my son about the water, fishing, skiing. Ha, the lake side residents pretty much have told me to F*** off. I'm the trash across the street but they sure want my signature for petitions. NOBODY uses the lake except two skiers every other day.

 

One day one of the skiers drives by and sees my SN in the drive way and invites me to ski with them the next morning. 138 homes and the only resident inviting me over was the skier. I am very thankful for these two skiers and the knowledge and the opportunities they have since given me. We ski together 1-3x a week on perfect private water. This guy is a true Ambassador to skiing and he has introduced me around to a few Big Dawgs who have given me opportunities as well on their private water.

 

I sure would like to see a organization like AWSA lobby some of these communities who own the access to these private lakes with courses to open their ramps 1 day a week, whether a week day or weekend for $20-40 per boat. What's wrong with that? I bet every HOA meeting there's crus of how they're short on money blah blah. They'll make money and we could at least get an opportunity.

[skier2788]

The biggest obstacle I see to HOA or any private site opening up to the public is the liability. You have people with a lot of money wrapped up in homes. All it would take is for one person to get hurt and file a lawsuit against the HOA or the ski club. Your $20 to $40 dollars a boat doesn't cover a lot of lawyer fees. My club leases the rights to our lake and it is very clear that only X number of members are allowed to use the lake. Club must carry a certain amount of Liability insurance, every boat must carry another 1 million in insurance. I LOVE this sport and would do almost anything to grow it. Anyone wanting to ski is more than welcome to come ski with me. Zero chance my lake would ever open to the public.

[skier2788]

The biggest obstacle I see to HOA or any private site opening up to the public is the liability. You have people with a lot of money wrapped up in homes. All it would take is for one person to get hurt and file a lawsuit against the HOA or the ski club. Your $20 to $40 dollars a boat doesn't cover a lot of lawyer fees. My club leases the rights to our lake and it is very clear that only X number of members are allowed to use the lake. Club must carry a certain amount of Liability insurance, every boat must carry another 1 million in insurance. I LOVE this sport and would do almost anything to grow it. Anyone wanting to ski is more than welcome to come ski with me. Zero chance my lake would ever open to the public.

[The_MS]

Lawyers and invasive species are 2 big detriments to @Orlando76 plan. If a boat brings in Zebras, the lake is toast. If a boat brings in milfoil or other invasives, it could be 2-3k in chemical costs just to eliminate.

[The_MS]

Lawyers and invasive species are 2 big detriments to @Orlando76 plan. If a boat brings in Zebras, the lake is toast. If a boat brings in milfoil or other invasives, it could be 2-3k in chemical costs just to eliminate.

[escmanaze]

"Lawyers AND invasive species"

 

Isn't that redundant?

 

Oh come on people, it's just a joke. :)

[escmanaze]

"Lawyers AND invasive species"

 

Isn't that redundant?

 

Oh come on people, it's just a joke. :)

[swc5150]

@gt2003 Welcome to the exclusive triple panda club. We are an elite faction of BOS:)

[swc5150]

@gt2003 Welcome to the exclusive triple panda club. We are an elite faction of BOS:)

[gt2003]

Thank you @swc5150 , I'm actually quite honored!

[gt2003]

Thank you @swc5150 , I'm actually quite honored!

[BlueSki]

I think the real test will be less about inviting people over to private water and more a question of whether giant boats with giant wakes and giant price tags remain in popularity. Preferences change, if surfing and boarding popularity ebbs, skiing may find a resurgence on public water. The water sports market, regulation, and access will all play a part in that. Our desire for choices in skis and boats will be influenced by the degree of public water interest. The degree to which we as skiers, AWSA, and the manufacturers can support public water access will drive this. With many on private water and not directly impacted and the potential for higher margins on bigger boats and easier to accomplish sports (I.e., surfing), it is hard to see much changing unless mass market preferences change.

[BlueSki]

I think the real test will be less about inviting people over to private water and more a question of whether giant boats with giant wakes and giant price tags remain in popularity. Preferences change, if surfing and boarding popularity ebbs, skiing may find a resurgence on public water. The water sports market, regulation, and access will all play a part in that. Our desire for choices in skis and boats will be influenced by the degree of public water interest. The degree to which we as skiers, AWSA, and the manufacturers can support public water access will drive this. With many on private water and not directly impacted and the potential for higher margins on bigger boats and easier to accomplish sports (I.e., surfing), it is hard to see much changing unless mass market preferences change.

[walleye]

College kids are the future. If they are serios about skiing they need to choose there spouses accordingly. Very difficult to raise kids, go to the lake if you are alone in the dog house. Huge sacrifices have to be made. But a life of skiing with your family is priceless. I have not seen much commitment from college kids that have passed thru mokan. The ones that have are doing well and I am very proud of. Most complain and make excuses and spend their resources elsewhere. Lots kids raised on private sites do not realize what they have. Alot of us have made portibles skiid behind outboards for a chance to ski a course and be apart of a private site. We appreciate what we have. It is a love for skiing. No rule changes will help only commitment and choices by them. We that have done this need to be open to new membership. But they need to work for it and not expect a silver platter.

[walleye]

College kids are the future. If they are serios about skiing they need to choose there spouses accordingly. Very difficult to raise kids, go to the lake if you are alone in the dog house. Huge sacrifices have to be made. But a life of skiing with your family is priceless. I have not seen much commitment from college kids that have passed thru mokan. The ones that have are doing well and I am very proud of. Most complain and make excuses and spend their resources elsewhere. Lots kids raised on private sites do not realize what they have. Alot of us have made portibles skiid behind outboards for a chance to ski a course and be apart of a private site. We appreciate what we have. It is a love for skiing. No rule changes will help only commitment and choices by them. We that have done this need to be open to new membership. But they need to work for it and not expect a silver platter.

[walleye]

The AWSA needs to focus there resources on these college kids. Not rule changes like zero base scoring and level 10. But easing rules for class C and turn and burn. This would create more tournaments and speed tournaments up. This equates to more revenue for clubs, water time on private sites for those that do not have it and less stress on volunteers.

 

Here in the Midwest scholarships are not available, funds have been cut and teams have been kicked off sites. Sayings that some teams have grown some not. It all came down to leadership. I saw Paul and Cole take MoState a little known college to Nationals. They lead by example and hard work keeping the lake owner happy being evolved in tournaments judging and driving. Eric & his group lead MU out of the cellar by the same leadership. Abbe, Dillon & Katie did the same at KU. But once those leaders left the entitlement kids took over and back to the cellar they will go.

 

I feel these new rule changes are more for the entitlement crowd Not growth of our sport. Chet said this very well in another thread (level10). The history of our sport is in jeopardy by these new rules changes. With them the elite will have no drive to be the best they can be. Long standing records that these elite athletes are chasing will be demolished by these rule changes. I myself will never compete for top spot not even in my own state with very few skiers. But when I hit a 90 point ride it makes me very happy. With level 10 I can gain 6 buoys easily. Now my life long goal of 90 point rides is gone my bar has been lowered.

 

Wake up AWSA these new rules will not grow the sport. Look at easing rules on class C and help these college kids with leadership and resources. One more thing why are all these kids from out of country getting our scholarships?

[walleye]

The AWSA needs to focus there resources on these college kids. Not rule changes like zero base scoring and level 10. But easing rules for class C and turn and burn. This would create more tournaments and speed tournaments up. This equates to more revenue for clubs, water time on private sites for those that do not have it and less stress on volunteers.

 

Here in the Midwest scholarships are not available, funds have been cut and teams have been kicked off sites. Sayings that some teams have grown some not. It all came down to leadership. I saw Paul and Cole take MoState a little known college to Nationals. They lead by example and hard work keeping the lake owner happy being evolved in tournaments judging and driving. Eric & his group lead MU out of the cellar by the same leadership. Abbe, Dillon & Katie did the same at KU. But once those leaders left the entitlement kids took over and back to the cellar they will go.

 

I feel these new rule changes are more for the entitlement crowd Not growth of our sport. Chet said this very well in another thread (level10). The history of our sport is in jeopardy by these new rules changes. With them the elite will have no drive to be the best they can be. Long standing records that these elite athletes are chasing will be demolished by these rule changes. I myself will never compete for top spot not even in my own state with very few skiers. But when I hit a 90 point ride it makes me very happy. With level 10 I can gain 6 buoys easily. Now my life long goal of 90 point rides is gone my bar has been lowered.

 

Wake up AWSA these new rules will not grow the sport. Look at easing rules on class C and help these college kids with leadership and resources. One more thing why are all these kids from out of country getting our scholarships?

[Waternut]

All these people complaining about wait time for the course blow my mind. I'd rather go spend 3-4 hours at the course waiting for my 2 sets while talking to friends than be stuck at home with no one to ski with.

 

I'm beginning to see a trend on this forum of why the sport isn't growing... People talk about growing the sport until it becomes inconvenient for the die hard skiers. Then the casual skiers quit getting invited and can never reach the die hard status and ultimately quit because they take up too much time. Are we seriously getting that elite-ist?