When you judge slalom at a USAWS event do you fill out the paperwork with the score for every skier?

[Horton]

When you judge slalom at a USAWS event do you fill out the paperwork with the score for every skier?

[Horton]

FYI this thread and poll is limited to readers who have added their USAWS member # to their user profile or otherwise let me know who they actually are.

 

If you are a USAWS member and can not vote but want to -just send me a PM and I will fix your account.

Please do not post about access in this thread.

[Horton]

One more thing. My vote is wrong. It should say no. Shamefully "NO"

[Kelvin]

As a tower judge I have never done any paperwork. Just call in scores to the scorer. From the boat I will keep track of ZO letters at ELR events if there is paperwork in the boat.

 

Most scorers do paper as well as direct computer entry.

 

With last years driving controversies, there is more work/responsibility on the TC, scorers and judges to keep the drivers in check. All but the drivers themselves.

 

[skierjp]

As a tower judge no, as a boat judge yes, always. Never been in a boat as a driver or judge where there has never been paper work. My wife is a Chief Scorer, trust me you may need the boat paper work as back up! This goes for C and ELR tournaments.

[ski6jones]

@Horton, you say fill out "the paperwork". I wasn't even aware there was event paperwork for slalom judging, aside from Chief Judges contribution to the tournament package. What is "the paperwork"?

[jcamp]

Tower judge no. Boat judge yes.

[ToddL]

Everything is radio-ed to the scorer. The scorer confirms. This means to me that it was captured and entered into the computer. My job as a judge is done.

 

If one does not trust the tech or person at the computer, or just wants a personal backup, then I guess he or she can grab paper and document whatever.

 

Before the immediacy of current systems/process, we'd have a "recap" tower with paperwork as a backup. Now, I think the process locally is two people at scoring: #1 writes everything down as a backup, and #2 enters into the computer. This allows for a computer hic-up and catch up without necessarily slowing the progress of the pulls.

[elr]

When the scorer asks . . .

[Jody_Seal]

I guess it depends on what the LOC and chief officials want to do, paperless seems to be more prevalent in the southern region as our scorers are usually recapping on paper and are pretty astute when it comes to keeping it correct with their digital input..

[ski6jones]

Well how about that. The "Tournament Manual" and "AWSA Rule Book" repeatedly refer to judges forms but I found no example of one anywhere on usawaterski.org. Never been told I should be using one in all the training/testing I've had to be a judge.

[RichardDoane]

it's nice to have paperwork for back up, plus the ability to go back and check scores if there any issues, as a senior scorer I've had more than one laptop have issues while scoring over the years

[Horton]

did you hear that noise? I think that is Richelle's head banging on a desk somewhere

[Chef23]

When I am in a tower I just call in the score. I try to write it down in the boat but don't always do that. There isn't always a sheet in the towers when I have judged. If there were I would try to write down the scores.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

We've been doing "paperless" for a long time. What is the point in writing something down if it NEVER gets used?

[John Brooks]

I have judged and scored Regionals, Nationals and a number of record events and never seen a judge completing any paperwork. As a scorer I always write it down and enter in the computer.

[LeonL]

I am surprised at the number of comments that essentially say "never seen or heard of paperwork" to be filled out by judges. We once were religious about judges filling out paperwork. It was once done everywhere and gradually drifted away. I NEVER am handed forms at any tournament anymore. Last year at regionals I got a running order. Most sites I don't even get that. Then it got so I'd collect judges forms after the tournament and find them blank or with doodles. I gave up. If I chose to not use a judge(s) again who failed to fill out he forms, I'd be short on judges. I still think it's important. I have seen situations where the scorer makes a mistake. It does happen. If you have the forms you can go back and reconstruct, otherwise the skier is SOL.

EDIT: see @bishop8950 comment below. Good reason why! @ski6jones on the website look under "Event Sanctioning" then "Online tournament kit". There you will find a "Slalom Judges Form". And for all of you who have never seen one, take a look.

[Kelvin]

Well, with the ability to post live scores to the www.waterskiresults.com website, the chances of scoring errors being caught early while everyone is still onsite increases. This also creates somewhat of an immediate backup of the scoring data in case the computer does actually crash beyond recovery. Its not as important as it used to be.

[Roger]

Tower = no, Boat = yes

[Ilivetoski]

Never heard of or been given these papers

[bishop8950]

Tower no, boat yes. Not always boat, depends on the event and what they want to do. Seems like in a record it's always done

 

I was boat judge for the top of M6 at Nationals and although I called in "Ted M starting at 28 yellow" the scorer started him at 22. In at the end of the event Ted earned a run off for 2nd. The scorer was arguing saying there would be no run off given his 22 start. I verbally persisted and the scorer sent a representative down to the boat and they confirmed my paper record of starting length and Ted got his run off. I was really happy there was a paper back up and that I did a good job using it. So was Ted.

[Horton]

@Kelvin I wish most sites had internet access and utilized the online system but the reality is that most sites ( at least out west) do not have internet access and do not use that system

[PatM]

Most of the sites they are imputing the score in the computer as called in. Some (rare) will have paperwork in the boat for you.

[MISkier]

I haven't ever done it and nobody has ever asked. Also, my handwriting is horrible. I struggle to make it readable even to me. I would use an app on a phone or tablet, though, as a secondary capture.

[MillerTime38]

No for both, When boat judging I always confirm the line length after each pass with the scorer. If there were any discrepancy it should be discovered between passes (Unless the skier does not complete opener but then it shouldn't matter)

[Horton]

I just heard an explosion. Can somebody check on Richelle and make sure she's ok?

[Horton]

@bishop8950 and that is example of why you are a very good tournament official

[Kelvin]

@bishop8950 @Horton Its also an example of the arrogance of many of the officials in our sport. His word should have been enough to get the score corrected.

[LeonL]

Maybe I shouldn't have just edited my first post, many might just go by it as already read. Please check out the edit

[bishop8950]

@kelvin I agree. I left out the aspect of the story where the attidude from the other end of the radio was inappropriate. There was quite a lot of discussion on what Teds score should have been. Furthermore, the clip board was ripped out of my hands rudely and I had no idea that what was written would be the ultimate factor. In the end, the right thing happened and I can only hope that the other event officials learned something. I did; use the written notes and persist when you know you are right. Had the right thing not happened I had the chief judges phone number ready to dial.

[Not_The_Pug]

I always fill out the paperwork in the boat. Just in case someone comes back and questions a call or like @bishop8950 said, they question starting line length or speed. I even record the ZO letter setting. If there is paperwork in the tower, I fill it out, more for something to do while sitting there by myself.

[BRY]

As a tower judge usually not but do if supplied.

As a boat judge I don't think I have ever not had paper in the boat, and use it.

As a scorer I do and have always written it down along with entering into the computer.

Having the boat judge and scorer paper work rarely needed but a godsend when you do. Its not that hard 'cause if I can handle it then.....

 

@bishop8950 Why have CJ on speed dial? They are supposed to be on site the entire time. Instances like you described are exactly what the CJ is for, CJ should have been involved as soon as there was a contention between officials.

[bishop8950]

@bry have you been to Nationals? Of course the CJ is on site but the chief judge is very busy (there were 4 concurrent events at that time) and not be available for every conflict that can otherwise be resolved, as this was. The CJ happened to be a good freind of mine whom I would have called to get her involved had things not turned out correctly. Yes, this qualifies as something that should hit the CJ radar, we just took care of it first.

[RichardDoane]

every scorer should have this .pdf

[BRY]

@bishop8950 Yep, been to several Nat's. Interesting response as we agree, "Yes, this qualifies as something that should hit the CJ radar."

[klindy]

@bishop8950 @BRY for multi-lake Nationals there is ALWAYS an ACJ (assistant) assigned to the lake with the same authority for that event as the CJ. To @BRY's comment, the ACJ should have been who resolved that situation.

 

IF there's a protest involved or some other condition that requires a vote of the appointed judges then the CJ gets called.

 

When I was CJ a couple years ago at SMRR, there were three ACJ's that took care of any lake specific issues - DQ's for handle length, run-offs, potential reride issues, video reviews, etc. However things like scheduling issues, protests, etc. I was called to resolve.

 

I found it works FAR better if you can delegate as much as the event stuff as possible. All the ACJ's selected are completely capable.

[bishop8950]

Thanks @klindy I did not know that. Furthermore, for all I know it was an ACJ that checked my sheet. I don't know because he did not talk to me, which was weird.

[klindy]

@bishop8950 All I know is it wasn't me! I've typically enjoy talking to you! :smile:

[bbrannan]

Never have and never been asked (boat or tower), which isn't particularly surprising given most tournaments I judge are collegiate.

[LeonL]

Welcome to KY @bbrannan. Thought I would see you at the tournament Saturday. Now that you're a KY resident do you plan to ski the KY State Championships?

[bbrannan]

Thanks @LeonL, nice to meet you. Wish I could have made it to the tournament, but I had too much unpacking to do before starting work tomorrow. Planning to be at Kentucky States for Saturday, not sure if I'll be able to make Friday or not yet.

[Horton]

this thread is closed. See the new thread about The Muhlitner Scoring Incident