National Qualified...Not even a USA member

[keithh2oskier]

Got an email from USA waterski yesterday. I qualified for nationals based on my ranking. Except I haven't been a USA waterski member for almost 10 years and haven't skied a tournament since then.

 

Anyone else get anything similar? Maybe this is USA waterski's goal of trying to get back old members...

 

[Wish]

Yeeup, just got my letter, only I did not ski Regianals. I should just sign up and go.

 

[ski6jones]

The email I got clearly states you must attend one of the Regional tournaments.

[Wish]

Well then I don't qualify. So why send me the congrats? Southern Regionsls are way to late to sign up for and guessing a few other Reg are too.

[keithh2oskier]

Yeh I am just wondering why they even sent the letter. I am not a USA waterski member and have skied no tournaments. I have no rankings. Therefore how am I even qualified to ski even if I did sign up and ski regional (which I am probably not qualified for)?

[Than_Bogan]

I reported the error and they are investigating why the list was wrong.

[jcamp]

@Wish USAWS is trying something to increase interest and participation in Nationals. Would you rather they do nothing?

 

Seriously, damned if you do, damned if you don't ....

[Wish]

@jcamp just some light hearted jabbing but seriously if the idea is to ramp up interest for those that may not know they qualify (assuming that's the purpose) doing so days before a regionals (no mention of how to qualify or if for them) and in several cases after entry deadline seems would cause more confusion then excitment. Not to mention those in the know are kinda scratching their heads as to the timing. Nobody's perfect and good for them on trying. The real take away should be what just happened in this thread ...clarification on the biggest waterski web location and call into headquarters to better serve the waterski public. Sort of a team effort here with some interjected humor :)

[PatM]

Here I was feeling special this morning. You guys ruin everything :'(

[unksskis]

I don't see how this could drum up new interest in any way, rather it just leads to confusion and a look of being disorganized.

[JeffSurdej]

This years "congrats you made it to nationals email" did not go as planned. Last year we got them off the day after the cutoff, this year it took a few more days, then minutes after starting to send them we were alerted to the glitch in the email list given to HQ. Luckily only 198 wrong ones went out out of the 2200 that were set to go out. After a few days of straightening that out the correct eblast was completed and corrected emails were sent to the 198. We realized it was late and some regionals had already begun, not too mention many others entry deadlines but we still felt best to send it.

 

What this did make me realize is that July 13th is just too late of a cutoff date, even with a timely email. 2 of the regionals are always going to be that following weekend with others having entry deadlines already past. I'm hoping for 2018 we have a new earlier cutoff date so plans and entry deadlines can be met. I don't know how many skiers are actually waiting for the cutoff date to find out, but I assume its a good 5-10 in each division/event so an earlier date would work better for all. In theory mid July works b/c you assume skiers should go out there during the current season to "get qualified" but with the list being 12 months rolling it doesn't quite have that hype. Scores right now are already counting towards 2018 nationals.

[PurdueSkier]

@JeffSurdej. Noting your comment above. Why is everything based on the rolling 12 month list and not the current ski year? I think this adds to some of the confusion. Your ranking could drop just before the cutoff just because a previous year score was there then dropped off. Why not use the current year list?

[JeffSurdej]

Hmmm interesting @PurdueSkier. That would solve the loosing of scores which is very hard to predict your rolling average. but wouldnt the list be sort of empty until everyone got 3 scores. I'm picturing the rankings in September or are you saying just use ski year rankings for qualifications and keep 12 months as the default view ?

[ToddL]

Just use Jan 1st, same as age cut off date for divisions. Prior year's scores set the mark. Skiers have all season to go for it.

[liquid d]

It's so simple, it's stupid that we have it set up the way it is! Prior year's scores determine cutoff, and anyone can achieve it during the current year. Do it once in a record, or twice in a class C. Anyone changing divisions that was qualified in last year's Nats, qualifies for this year's Nats.

And I'll add one more (just for me!) ...if you're qualified in one event, you can ski all 3! woohoo! I got my poster!

[John Brooks]

@JeffSurdej I would be in favor of a December 31st cutoff based on scores between Nationals and the end of the year. Scores after Nationals are often a skiers best and certainly representative of performance for all. It also allows skiers below the threshold a goal to attain before Nationals. As I have watched cutoff scores the last few years, they don't seem to move much from year to year.

[texski]

As a father of a young skier, it was fun to receive an email that my son qualified for nationals. He worked hard and it came down to his last set in a tournament this past weekend for him to qualify. He was almost as proud of his achievement as I was and he was excited about his email.

[Than_Bogan]

Ok, so mistakes were made.

 

But I think the email is a GREAT idea and we absolutely should not throw the baby out with the bath water here.

 

Fix the process. Keep the email.

[Jody_Seal]

A agree with liquid D , want more participation? Set the standard the day after nationals then all know what the criteria is. The sport is hard enough with out the analites making participation harder.

[PurdueSkier]

@Than_Bogan I agree, keep the email, fix the problem. I was excited to get my email, even if I just barely made it in.

 

@JeffSurdej I think the ski year list should be the default view and what is used for qualifications. Yes, the list will be very small for a month or so after Nationals, but it will be accurate. If you want to look at where you are at any given time, then you can still look at the 12 month view as an option (just like the ski year is an option now).

 

If we want to keep the changes small and simple, move the cutoff date earlier and use the ski year for qualifications. You can't just move the cutoff date. One issue now, is that any tournament that happens after the cutoff and before Nationals (this includes small class C tournaments not just State and Regionals), actually count toward 2 National qualifications. That doesn't really make any sense. Why should a class C tournament in late July count twice as much as one in June? If I ski in a tournament tomorrow, the score will count towards a 2017 national qualification (as a LCQ) per the current rules (any score achieved after the cutoff date). Assuming next year's cutoff date is the same or earlier, it will still be on my 12 month ranking list score when the cutoff date for 2018 happens. So it counts towards both.

 

If we use the current ski year list, then all of this goes away. Any tournament after Nationals will count toward next year. Nationals will truly be the culmination of the ski year and the ranking list. We all start over next year. You can set the cutoff date whenever you want it. I agree that earlier is better, to allow for planning of regionals and nationals travel.

 

My one last comment, is I don't like the time and money requirement to ski at Regionals, as a qualification for Nationals. I understand wanting the best to be at Regionals and needed competitors to show up, but from the family perspective it is hard to plan the travel for two major events.

 

 

[Chad_Scott]

Go back to a set EP rating. Everyone knows the mark and can work to achieve it. Take the guess work out of it. When you accomplish the EP rating that should trigger the invite email to nationals.

[brettmainer]

I like that the 12 month rolling Rankings List is the default view and what is used to seed tournaments, including regionals and nationals.

 

I completely agree with @Chad_Scott that we should go back to the Masters / EP / MM / Open Ratings. Publish those benchmark scores the week after Nationals to be in effect for the entire new ski year and be done with it.

 

Emails can be sent out as the various benchmarks are achieved by skiers. Or, if you don't want to send hundreds of nationals invites for the following summer the week after nationals, hold all the emails and send them July 1.

[MattP]

What @Chad_Scott and @brettmainer said.

[skierjp]

Exactly, what @Chad_Scott said.

[Wish]

@Chad_Scott for president..of something. I remember the local pro shop in MN back in the day giving discounts to any skier with an EP rating...was another bonus for working hard. I would add bringing back Novice ability based level as well. Also a great accomplishment to ski out of Novice and into a devision. Plus while in Novice I skied against similar ability not age or sex....it was competition.

[mcskier41]

+1 on what Chad said!!!

[mjump]

+1 for @Chad_Scott

[Wish]

@Mark_Matis I know but it's worth it. I think that system was great. Lots of incentives built in internally and if companies participated with EP discounts, externally. It was easy to fallow, was encouraging, and gave more of a purpose to go to tournaments. I remember skiers excitedly asking; "...did you get your EP?". Have not heard a soul say "...did you get your level 8?" since the change.

[PurdueSkier]

@Wish was the EP year to year, or rolling? I believe it was each year. I do like that idea, I just don't think it is that different than using an early cutoff date and the ski year ranking. Part of the reason we don't hear "did you get your level 8" is because it only matters on or after the cutoff. You could have it based on a pervious year score, then lose it. If the cutoff was early in the ski year and we used a ski year ranking list, it would be the same.

[Gar]

Bring back the EP system and discounts!

[wski1831]

Definitely need the earlier cut off date. Why not make everybody happy, bring back the EP make the cut off for that level 8.

[ntx]

The 12 month system is not practical. Regional can count toward two nationals under the current system. The season starts the day after nationals. @ToddL if you use a Jan 1 date... You lose all the fall tournaments. That does not work. Common sense says that a ski season runs from the day after national.

[ntx]

Does anyone remember who pushed and designed the ranking system??? The days of "EP" discounts went away when Goode did not offer them. The rest followed. Those days are gone.

[Gar]

Bought my first 9100 for $390!

[MillerTime38]

The ranking system works good just move the cut off date a couple weeks earlier.

 

Do we really think this is preventing people from attending nationals?? If we go back to EP will it cause hundreds of more people to attend nationals? Doubt it.

[Kelvin]

What if you only had to ski Regionals once every 2 years to ski Nationals? I personally believe it would increase Nationals participation without drastically reducing Regionals participation. Of course, the only way to know for sure is to try it.