mapping Zero off

[TEL]

Is there any advantage to Map a course if I ski on the same lake?

[Ilivetoski]

absolutely map your course

[The_MS]

Ha?

[TEL]

Why, do you get a different pull from the boat

[MattP]

@TEL yes, when you map the boat the boat will be responding to the skiers pull in order to get the correct buoy times. If you do not map the boat you will essentially be skiing in cruse mode a constant speed with boat reaction but it would feel different.

[TEL]

I have the updated software, but have never mapped the course. I have heard from other skiers that my boat has a hard pull hopefully mapping will soften It a little

[MattP]

@TEL when mapping the course you idle through the entrance gates and start the map when the buoy is aligned with the ZO puck then idol to the other end of the lake and do the same.

 

Let us know if you feel a difference int he pull. I would assume you would. Out of curiosity what boat/engine combo do you have?

[MrJones]

This is a related question. Do you need to re map every so often? Our boat almost never leaves our lake. It was mapped in '14 and I haven't worried about it since.

[Ilivetoski]

I see on your profile it says you have a 08 196. They are great boats but no one ever associates those boats with a soft pull

[MattP]

@MrJones yes. Satellite drift is a thing. Some say you should map the boat every time you use it. That is a bit over kill.

I check ours every few weeks. If I notice that the beeps are coming before or after the correct point I do remap. They should be remapped before every tournament. Somewhere in the rules or supporting ZO documentation it does state that a map of a course will not be affected through the course of a tournament and should not need to be remapped. I have only ever come across 1 boat that had a serious drift issue.

[T_C]

Depending on what part of the country you are in the "drift" can be significant. Our boat moved by twenty feet from May until July.

[TEL]

@MattP Will do when I come back from vacation week after next

[Kelvin]

"Drift" has more of an effect on jumping than slalom, but as @MattP says, pay attention to the beeps in relation to the buoys and re-map if they are off by more than a few feet.

[h2onhk]

@MattP can you elaborate more on "If you do not map the boat you will essentially be skiing in cruse mode a constant speed with boat reaction but it would feel different" . Last year was our first year with a ZO boat(2007 196 330PCM). We use a portable course on a river. We only set the course when there is little to no current. We all ski B2 setting and I would like to better understand how to get the most out of ZO functionality. Right now its set in recreational mode and we just turn it off and on.

 

we are all 34mph skiers running into 32off. I should also note that we typically pull the course out each time we use it so its not a fixed location each time.

[Triplett]

Mapping the course does make the boat a softer pull. I have found without the course mapped the boat will do everything it can to maintain speed, resulting in a stiff pull

 

@h2o.nhk I would recommend that every time you use the course you map it. The pull will feel more consistent. As far as letter settings, this is really personal preference. If you are in to 32off, you should play with the settings. A setting tends to be a later throttle engagement, I think of it as the boat will gain speed at the second wake out to the ball. B is right in the middle, more white water to white water. C will start applying throttle right after the unit sees you pull. The numbers are the intensity of the throttle application. 1 is gradual, peaking near the end of the profile. 2 is a ramp up and down, so the high point is right the middle, probably the most mild. 3 is all the throttle you want right away. The best way to know what works for you and your style is to try them all and use what feels best. Obviously to change this you need to be in tournament mode, once you set this in tournament mode you can go back to Rec mode and the setting will be applied.

 

@MattP The rule about drift in a tournament is fix it the moment you notice it. The Chief driver will need to verify the boats are good. If it starts to change through the day you have to remap, but it is not a thing where you can get a re-ride.

 

 

[MattP]

What @Triplett said. And agreed on drift. I was boat judge in this situation and cheif boat driver was in the boat.

[TEL]

Wow @Triplett if mapping gives me a softer pull that would be great! When I am not skiing behind my boat I ski behind a perfect pass boat and a boat that has no speed control I know they will always feel softer.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Or just use trick mode and don't worry about mapping. The pull is much better.

[h2onhk]

@TEL I hear you on the softer pull. The other boats we use have no speed control. We always run a stop watch gate to gate but we all agree ZO tells the tale of how well we are skiing.

 

@Triplett @Bruce_Butterfield I agree we should start playing around with some of the settings. I've followed the ZO easter egg thread. haven't tried trick mode yet. Our course time has been very very limited this year with high water, currents and debris

[LeonL]

I have a difficult time accepting that ZO pulls any different whether mapped or not. I'll have to try that out and see if I can tell the difference.

[Steveo]

@TEL funny that you mention this because when I was driving Sunday I noticed there were no beeps as we entered the gates or passing the boat guides. Did not think much about it though. Makes sense now.

[Steveo]

@TEL was Lake Talmadge mapped?

[Gloersen]

ZO pulls the same without mapping but the gate approach will be different (slower) compared to skiing a mapped course. The course needs to be mapped so ZO "knows" where it is allowing the gate entry speed to be 0.8% or 1.6%(+ setting) above baseline (baseline speed starts at the gate beep).

 

In a mapped course that has "drifted", if the gate location is way off, conceivably that could adversely affect the start of the pass.

[TEL]

@Steveo No Lake Talmadge was not mapped, So both the boats you ski with are mapped? Can wait to see if there is a difference. Hope for softer

[LeonL]

@TEL don't count on feeling any difference, other than gate speed.

[LeonL]

@Gloersen , so ZO goes back to baseline speed when the boat hits the gate? Speed dropping just as the skier starts pulling for the gate. That seems counter productive.

[DanE]

@LeonL As you enter the course the boats momentum will carry you as you pull it down to actual, and then your letter setting kicks in...

[Gloersen]

.

[Gloersen]

@LeonL - essentially, yes. It was designed, as I understand, to permit less needed throttle response for the gate turn-in; smoother, lower delta V.

 

See page 27

 

[LeonL]

@Gloersen , so an unmapped does not provide the "gate up" speed? As opposed to just keeping the up speed waiting for the never to happen gate? I suppose a mapped boat achieves the up speed once it locks in.

[Ilivetoski]

So we remapped our boat today. Not anticipating feeling any difference, I was just annoyed when driving because the beep would come around the time the platform went through the buoys.

 

Night and Day difference. The boat was there for me out of the ball unlike it had been for a while. I have NO idea why this made a difference, but it was not in my head. All year I have been skiing behind my boat and getting midway through 32 off, Ill go ski behind a 200 on our lake and run 32 multiple times every set and get 2-3 @35. Went down to Tennessee and ran 35. Couldn't figure out what was wrong, but my first set with the course remapped I ran right inside of 3 ball @ 35 with a HORRIBLE gate. At the end of the lake after my first try at 32 with the boat remapped, my dad looked at me and said "I can't believe how smooth that was and how big of a difference that made" and kept saying it the entire way back. Not sure what the difference was, but it was huge for me

[Broussard]

The difference is: the boat now operates like it was designed to; in sync with the course giving you a the desired pull.

[Ilivetoski]

@Broussard But is ZO not set up to respond to the pull of the skier? I ski on C2 so I should have a reasonable amount of throttle when I load the boat, doesn't seem like it would have anything to do with where the boat is in the course? I could be completely wrong about how it operates but that was my impression

[LeonL]

@Ilivetoski you are correct in your most recent post. ZO does not care where it is in relation to buoys as applied to throttle response. It's just gonna sit there, running 36 until you do something. If you're up to an experiment try just skiing with no intent of going around buoys, turning between them, as in turning somewhere between 1& 3, 2 & 4, etc. See what the boat does. I can't explain your earlier post, other than to say you skied better yesterday. You are not alone in your reasoning in the first post. Lots of skiers think the boat throttle response relies partially on where it is relationally to buoys. Can you imagine the difference that would make if you were skiing an early line as opposed to being really late? You'd be screwed for sure, possibly either way. And think of this, what about where the boat is in relation to the skier running 15 off as compared a skier at 39 off? If it went by where it is for response, which would be the proper spot to program that in? Impossible.

[DanE]

@LeonL What about the added speed before the gates? How fast would the boat be going if you left ZO completely unmapped?

[Ilivetoski]

@LeonL I skied the first pass with it like it has been, second set we remapped it. I can promise it wasn't just a good set. It feels like a completely different boat, I don't know how to explain it other than the boat is just there out of the ball. Its possible that the added speed before the gates was putting me fast into 1 ball and I had to play catch up the whole time, now that I don't have that added speed, I am slower before the ball, but this was a drastic difference.

[TEL]

You guys are killing me on vacation and I just want to get home to map my course

[DanE]

Just for the heck of it I remapped today and sure enough both my son and me felt the boat worked better. I made a comment yesterday when we skied in a very slight head/tail ( so slight it should have been neglected) that the wind had a lot more impact on my gate/#1 buoys than it should. Well, after remapping and skiing in a more significant head/ tail today the gate and #1 buoy became far less critical for both of us.

This really make sense as it is very possible the discrepancy in the previous mapping could have amplified the wind factor if it was skewed in the right direction.

I would guess it is really about how long the boat keeps the baseline speed above set speed approaching the gate, ran an empty pass @34 w/ no skier and it is faster before the gate and then settles in to ideal in the course. Of course if ZO don't have the gates stored in the right place that speed adjustment will be skewed.

[Gloersen]

@LeonL @DanE - If ZO is locked in on a mapped course the 0.75%/1.6%(+) elevated gate speed is activated, being ~34.5 (for 34.2) until ZO beeps at the gates, then baseline speed is targeted. It doesn't seem to matter even if there is a lengthy approach to the gates, based on some trials this morning.

 

In an un-mapped ZO start, the speed achieves baseline only, no 0.75%/1.6% elevation. At least based on what was trialed today by selecting an empty course entry (nothing mapped, no course locked in) and the pre-gate speed was pegged to 34.2.

 

@Ilivetoski - if your mapping "drifted" and the gate beep occurred past the gates the boat may be slowing to baseline at a point when you're expecting more throttle. Whatever the case, it would sure make your gate pull inconsistent from boats mapped accurately.

[LeonL]

@DanE I need to check all this with my boat, but alas I probably won't anytime soon. I believe that an unmapped boat will have no gate factor and will lock in at 34.2 (for example) and stay there. ZO will then attempt to maintain that speed until the throttle is pulled back. Give it a try. Delete your map and run it. Agree with @Ilivetoski that if the map is off a whole boat length (he said platform) then the gate factor will hold that much past the actual gate potentially giving you a faster shot through the gate.

[DanE]

@LeonL I haven't made any observations where the beeps occurred but remapping sure made a big difference.

Funny thing I mapped it less than a month ago after upgrading software to rev R, course is permanent so the gates should not have moved.

Will remap at least monthly from now on.

[LeonL]

Course didn't move. Relative positioning of satellites did.

[thager]

I remapped earlier this year. Now going east in course beeps are right where they are supposed to be, Going west beeps occur 3-4 feet past the correct spot.

[DaveD]

tectonic plates must be shifting faster these days

[Stevie Boy]

Problem with zero off, never come across this before, our boat has developed a fault, we are having to map zero off every time we ski, never had to do this before, the diagnostics show no fault.

Anybody come across this problem before, suggestions welcome

[MattP]

@Stevie Boy where are you in the world? Also could be a puck going bad.

[MISkier]

@thager, check to make sure you don't have the course mapped twice. Delete any duplicate mappings.

[thager]

@MISkier Thx, that is what I was thinking also. Just been to lazy to do it yet.

[Stevie Boy]

@MISkier good call, found that somebody else had mapped the course and gave it another name, so I deleted it and remapped just the one, fingers ccrossed it's looking good so far, many thanks.

[TEL]

Back from vacation mapped the course and @Steveo said it best we both felt more connected and Intune with the boat. I found that I had very little if any slack in the rope after mapping, after rounding the buoys. I can not believe I never thought of mapping before. After several passes I switched over to trick mode and there was a difference in the pull much softer as close to the pull of a 2006 196 with PP my boat is a 2008 196.