Can a Fast ski make you lazy

[Bill22]

Last spring I got a new ski and immediately noticed it was faster than my old ski. It wasn't long and I was consistently running a pass that previously I was only running half of the time.

 

Fast forward to the end of the season. I watch several videos of me skiing and my form was sloppy, I looked like I did three or four years ago. It's like I was only doing just enough work to run the pass.

 

Have any of you Ballers experienced this before?

 

 

I am asking this as a general question and don't want the discussion to be only about one specific ski. I intentionally left that information out.

[Than_Bogan]

Oh yeah, no doubt. I usually describe it as "reintroducing my technique flaws that the ski tried to fix."

[RazorRoss3]

It can certainly happen, especially easy to run into balance, direction, and handle control issues off the second wake if you suddenly find you have more time coming into the ball.

[TEL]

Thanks, now I have another excuse I can use. My ski makes me lazy. Does explain not running passes that use to come easy on my ski, when it was new

[Horton]

Hate to open a can of worms but what is your definition of a "fast ski"?

 

If you are running more balls be happy. Now go work on your technique.

[RazorRoss3]

fast ski = early to ball, fast/slow water is the can of worms you don't want to open

[DW]

@Bill22 : Do you feel the so called fast ski is accentuating your form in a way that makes it look sloppy? You might want to drill down to some specific characteristics of the ski at the point you notice the sloppy skiing and as JTH notes, focus on technique. IMO, I don't think speed would be the culprit, it may be responsiveness, or as noted tuning the pre turn due to extra distance, etc.

 

To your title and comment, becoming lazy, are you not maximizing your buoy count when you ski? Going to your limit should eliminate any attempt at becoming lazy behind the handle. Shorten the line and any extra time should go away pretty quick.

[eleeski]

@RazorRoss3 The fast/slow water was a can of Pandas for me!

 

A fast ski requires more technique. Things happen faster. You have to react faster. If you do, you might be able to get ahead. And gain buoys. Or lose them if your skills deteriorate or aren't up to the task. The feel of a ski is a personal preference.

 

Eric

[Bill22]

@Horton to me a fast ski accelerates with little physical effort.

[eleeski]

@Horton You didn't have to disagree with me, you could have just given me a Panda.

 

Because I am right!

 

Eric

[Stevie Boy]

I have trouble with the fast/slow ski thing, surely if the boat is moving fwd at a certain speed and the skier maintains a specific angle to a certain point, physics dictate that the skis must arrive at the same point, at the same time, surely the only variable is the amount of effort required, less effort has got to be a good thing, but also this must make good body position easier, the only other thing that maybe affected is timing.

Is this a fair analogy, or am I blowing wind ?

[eleeski]

@Stevie Boy The speed swing of a ski is quite dependent on the path it takes to get there. Sometimes I'm halfway to the next buoy before I finish my turn and make the next buoy. Much of the path variation is style related but how quickly the ski gets to speed, how it holds the speed and how much it carries the speed out to the buoy are design variables of the ski that certainly affect the path.

 

Of course, some slow skis may actually achieve higher peak speeds...

 

Eric

[Bill22]

@Horton "If your running more balls be happy" yes, I am happy but at the next line length my consistency goes straight to crap. That is why I am thinking I need to clean up the now easy pass (-15@34).

 

@DW the skill in question is getting into a good stacked position. Especially at the finish of the offside turn. But in general it could be any skill that you could get slack at if you feel early and the pass is going easy.

 

I think @RazorRoss3 hit on something. I am at the low end of the weight range for most 66" skis. That makes the ski feel like it's riding high on the water and that gets me less comfortable, less balanced in the pre-turn.

 

Edit: riding high on the water and early to the ball are both messing with the timing in pre-turn and results is, not finishing the turn into a good position.

[RazorRoss3]

The problem with fast/slow is that none of us use them the same. When I’m realky early I could only have achieved that by going fairly fast but it feels slow because I have so much time to think before the ball. Perception and reality get into an argument with each other and confuse everyone

[Bill22]

@RazorRoss3 IMO the problem with your statement is "feel." If you take out the feel then it makes logical sense.

 

A fast ski got you wide early. And leave it at that.

 

Edit: well that's just how it sounds simple to me. And then we could all use the same terms?

[RazorRoss3]

@Bill22 if you are off balance coming into the ball be careful you aren’t giving up the handle to soon. You need to connect to the handle when you turn in, and then maintain that connection longer. The rythm of the handle changes between skis, the more time you have before the ball the better you need to be about sticking with your handle

[DavidN]

Ditch the easy pass and start -22

[Ed_Johnson]

I just recently transferred to the new D3 NRG and would classify it as a fast ski, by Horton's definition, that it takes less effort. I also find that with less effort comes "LESS MOVEMENT" which is a really good thing, and translates to consistency.

 

 

[Bill22]

@Ed_Johnson well there you go. "Less movement" is not my strong suit.

 

Who else has experience troubles after getting on a better/faster ski?

[Beeker]

@Bill22 Last year I got my first good ski, D3 Quest. It took me quite a while to understand the "Less Movement" as you say, and thanks to the help of a good friend @VONMAN I am slowly getting my technique turned into muscle memory which I believe leads to consistancy.

[ALPJr]

Take time to get to know your ski.

[Horton]

Can we all just agree that @eleeski is wrong about everything and call it a day?

[bassfooter]

Now, now, now. @eleeski isn’t wrong about everything. His passion just gets in the way of logic. The end result is that I get more wait time at either end of the course while he stands up in the boat “coaching” me, which sounds a lot like Charlie Brown’s teacher after one or two passes.

[Horton]

@eleeski

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

[Horton]

Personally I define a fast ski in few ways.

• A fast ski get wide and or early even if the skier does not have a good connection at the wakes and or does not maintain a lot of rope tension off the second wake.

• A fast ski is physically less taxing then a slower ski.

• A fast ski provides more time between the wake and the ball

• A Fast ski rides higher on the water they may be more finicky at apex than slower deeper riding skis.

 

@eleeski I love you man. Talk about trick skiing and I will not make fun of you. Say ridiculous things about slalom skis and I am on you like white on rice.

 

[Horton]

@Bill22

 

To your original question. My short answer is “sort of but really no”.

 

I have always like the idea of a training ski and a high score ski. The training ski would be a slow ski that makes me be more technical to make speed and get wide. The high score ski would be a fast ski that does not push me to do the things the training ski demands but gives me a little extra bonus performance when I do those things.

 

Bottom line - a modern fast ski is going to give many skiers more balls and in a practical world you should just ride it and work on your technical skills.

 

[Horton]

@bassfooter you should listen to every word Eric says about trick skiing.

 

In the spring come up to Bako and I will see if I can undo whatever he taught your about slalom.

[OldboyII]

No matter of water or snow for me fast ski = ski with less drag.

[BraceMaker]

@Horton seems kind of like you could run a strip of something down the tunnel for drag.

[adamhcaldwell]

To answer the original question on the post "YES". Why would that be a bad thing?

[RazorRoss3]

@adamhcaldwell depends on your definition of "lazy". "lazy" for me is making mistakes that I know I shouldn't be making but the ski lets me get away with. If I do that at my early passes it's fine but it will come back to haunt me at 35 and 38. If I make sure to be skiing correctly and not making those mistakes at my early lines then I am typically set up for better skiing as I get down the line. The top "lazy" mistake I make when I am early to the ball is losing my connection and/or falling inside the ski instead of keep the handle with me and staying on top of my feet.

[eleeski]

Just so I don’t get an automatic Panda, I’ll say @adamhcaldwell is right. Any ski that makes it easier to get buoys is good.

 

Now for some Panda fishing: @BraceMaker I built a ski with ridges in the tunnel. Worked great for me. Also, a very rough bottom texture improves the feel and performance. Other experiments, like wings up front or screws in the bevels were less successful.

 

@OldboyII I prefer a slow ski in the bumps. Fresh wax might be fun for groomers or necessary for a few hundredths in the race course but suck for me in the bumps. The extra drag of a slow ski allows me to take a straighter more zippered line while staying within my body’s quickness capabilities. Faster does not always make you ski better.

 

@Horton Trick skis have significant differences between fast and slow skis. (Most people prefer the slower skis.) I am certainly capable of feeling that and even building in that characteristic in a trick ski. Realistically, the nerve endings in my feet and analytical skills don’t disappear because it’s a slalom ski.

 

@RazorRoss3 Don’t be too hung up on perfect form. Top buoy count is all that matters. It might even be good to practice recovering from form breaks at the easier passes - some of those skills may help when things get choppy at the short line lengths. Everyone gets scrappy when at the top passes - the top skiers come out of the form breaks in perfect body position.

 

There is a 350 horsepower boat supplying as much energy as you need. The boat goes a set speed and the course is the same. There is no intrinsic advantage to a fast ski. Matching the feel of the ski to your skills and taste will give you the best buoy count.

 

Eric

[BraceMaker]

@eleeski - I guess the point in my mind was that certain ideas for drag change the attitude of the ski, but something that stayed with the contours of the ski, flexed with the ski and was removable would be an interesting "tuning" item. Probably wouldn't work.

[RazorRoss3]

@eleeski, trust me, I'm more than capable of turning green and smashing a few buoys when things get ugly but I'm always going to try to ski correctly. I get plenty of practice recovering from form breaks from the unintentional form breaks, don't need to make any of those on purpose ;)