Lighter or stronger?

[Horton]

If you had to focus on one or the other... What is more important for slalom? Lighter or stronger?

[h2onhk]

Both? I think everybody has an optimum strength to weight ratio. If I had to choose one or the other based on myself, to I would say strength hands down as I'm 150lbs soaking wet. Lighter would not give me anymore advantage.

[Andre]

Why not both ?

Nate is light and strong...so is Terry.

Whithney is 115 lbs and she doesn't bench 300 lbs but run deep 39 usually.

Technique is more important than both i think...

[eleeski]

@Horton Stick with your diet! That was mean but I'm just getting back at you for those Pandas.

 

Most people can improve their strength to weight ratio by losing weight. Certainly not all so one answer isn't right.

 

As I age, it's harder to keep strength. But it's real easy to keep fat now. So I have to starve and work out all the time - just to stay even. I wish I was staying even...

 

Eric

 

At least my skis are strong and light

[thager]

Lighter is better. Perfect body stack overcomes stronger.

[braindamage]

I’d say light first, which will maximize the strength you do have. Unless you lose weight in an unhealthy way and deplete lots of muscle in the process.

[bigskieridaho]

I think being light really helps. I dropped 10 before last season and improved greatly. I could concentrate on technique and not try to muscle my turns as much. Although strength is important which seems to be built from start of the season to finish along with some cross training.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@horton your question doesn't make sense unless you are trying to choose between scotch and Dogfishhead.

 

Look at a couple of extreme examples - which body type do you think would be a better slalom skier: a 6', 250 lb bodybuilder or a 6', 140 lb marathon runner? (the answer is they would both suck)

 

Its simple strength to weight ratio. Get your body fat percentage in the low single digits and get stronger.

 

And yes, its much harder for the chronologically gifted folks to maintain, let alone improve the strength to weight ratio.

[ALPJr]

It may be the genius of the and... lighter and stronger.

[lpskier]

Lighter. Make dealing with ZO easier.

[ShererSkier]

I think it's a balance of both. At the end of 2016 I hurt my knee not skiing or lifting related. At the time of injury I weighed 185, benched 310, squatted 440, and dead lifted 465 all one rep maxes. since I could not squat or dead lift the entire off season and stopped benching heavy, I lost a lot of mass in those regions but not any weight. What I did is start a stretching program every day and gained a lot of flexibility and agility and started the 2017 season skiing better than I had all of 2016 right from the first pass. However, I did a lot of reading on technique in the off season and I believe that helped a lot, but I also felt it was easier to get into the proper position with my reduced mass and increased flexibility. This sport is so complex that I think it really is important to have a balance of all physical abilities.

[Adam Caldwell]

Gaining technical knowledge about the sport will create far more gains in the slalom course then loosing weight or gaining strength.

 

Technique and philosophy outweigh many physical attributes in this sport by a huge margin.

 

[Wish]

The REAL question is.. stronger or lighter?..ya got it backwards.

 

Agree with @adamhcaldwell. I'm fatter but skiing better. Its all in my GUT. Go figure.

[6balls]

You don't have to be as strong if you are lighter...still need some base strength just not as much cuz power to weight ratio is important.

 

Agree on those chiming in on technique trumping all...but the question was more power or less weight.

 

I believe it's easier to have an effective power to weight ratio and be more agile at a lighter weight in general.

[JC McCavit]

Boats or skiers?

[ozski]

The way that the sport is heading with more HP means skiers will have to be more technical and have the perfect balance of power to weight to be competitive at the highest levels in my opinion. I'm also a fan of "ride the biggest ski you can turn" which plays into the whole equation. To answer the question I'm going lighter which to some extent gives me the other.

[RazorRoss3]

The 5lb difference between my 180 ski weight and 185lb lifting weight is huge. I can feel the extra 5 dragging me down on my ski, slowing me up and creating extra load. In the gym that same 5lbs is a huge power and endurance differential. Anything south of 180 and I lose endurance, strength, and energy fast.

[Adam Caldwell]

@RazorRoss3 - If your feeling a bit slow with extra load at 185, just pull a couple thou out of the length/depth. Its not you, its the ski - always blame the ski.

 

 

[bigskieridaho]

I’ve seen plenty of people with a gut or out of shape ski a course pretty well. I feel like half of it is a stereotype of how you are suppose to look or be as a skier. It is like drinking a beer after your done for the day and some people don’t or judge you because you do.

[TustinTom]

I think Enzo Ferrari said he would rather have his cars 10% lighter than 10% faster (adding the required weight to increase HP). The rationale being the wear and tear of accelerating and decelerating more mass during a race.

 

@adamhcaldwell I spend way more time on this forum, watching videos, reading Fin Whisperer etc but still struggle at 15 off/32mph. Only skiing about 3x a month, I can't practice enough to conquer the technique needed or when on the course, don't want to practice because that time is so rare. I'm also handicapped with excessive weight. At 6'4" and a weak 240lbs, I think I'm "medically" 40lbs overweight.

 

Please come up with a technique elixir that will get my butt up, arm's down and weight on my front foot. Perhaps a monthly prescription only available with the purchase of a 71' Denali ? I'm all in ! I'm already a fan of the Adam's.

 

Videoing my golf swing or skiing is the same. What I "feel" I am doing and what I am "actually" doing are two different things. The difference is the ability to correct and perfect the technique is far greater/harder in skiing. The similarity is that is either the club or skis fault. LOL.

[mwetskier]

two words: freddie winter

 

stronger.

[ScottScott]

There's also a big difference between bulk/weight-lifting strength and fit/strong. Many skiers like Whitney and Will Asher do cross fit. They are extremely fit and strong athletes, and they ski pretty well.

[OldboyII]

Getting lighter takes less time than getting stronger. And easier...

[braindamage]

I said lighter “first”, because if you are overweight and wondering which to focus on, weight loss will happen more quickly and be more impactful. Building strength as a part of losing weight would be good as well.

[bishop8950]

If you are really overweight, start there for so many reasons. Love Caldwell’s point on understanding and technique. So true and always my primary focus. Strength is great and a certain amount is a prerequisite, but after a certain point I don’t think it helps.

[sunvalleylaw]

Efficiency is more important than both. But being light and lean I think is an advantage to being efficient.

[MillerTime38]

I think the question just asks to IF you had to choose one, obviously they are both important.

 

For me it is lighter, The less wear and tear on my body the better. Especially having to go old man speed now whatever I can do to try and put less load on the boat and my body the better.

 

[jayski]

As a guy that has been 165lb and close to 200lb at 6'1", both with a single digit BF% I can easily say lighter is better...@adamcaldwell is correct in saying technique will carry you further than weight, but given the optimal or same skill set, lighter is better. Not insinuating that strength isn't a factor but it is easier to hold angle behind the boat, it is easier on the body overall and one can definitely be more dynamic and agile at 165lb vs. 200lb and it takes less 'strength' to do it all 30/40lbs less.

[skiboyny]

@Bruce_Butterfield while I agree with your analogy, I have to say that most people(not genetically gifted) will not attain single digit body fat levels nor would it be healthy to do so. It would take a tremendous commitment to diet and exercise that quite frankly most people just wouldn't be willing to do. Low double digits is a bit more practical and attainable.

[Zman]

Maybe rather than "lighter", I need a lot less input once I settle into my lean (and then better handle control to wide). And......

[dchristman]

To answer the original question, although weight is an intrinsic element of strength, stronger trumps lighter. Consider these edge cases:

 

- a floppy newborn

- a 500 pound adult without the strength to get out of his chair

 

Although the newborn is at least 50x lighter, he doesn't have an advantage. Neither possesses the required strength to ski.

Magically given the proper strength, the 500 pounder would have the advantage because of advanced knowledge. +1 for @adamhcaldwell .

 

Successful slalom requires strength, but it's at the lowest level of importance.

 

In 1980, I weighed 109 pounds and had a competition PB deadlift of 355 lbs. (365 in "practice"). Relatively strong and light. Although prior to skiing a course for the first time I naively thought I would be able to run 38off at 36mph. My slalom PB that year was .5@0off(LL), 34mph.

The current girls 2 national record is 2@39off 32mph. I would guess the Baldwin girls aren't that much better than I am because they're lighter OR stronger.

 

I propose the following pairs of elements in order of importance for performance:

 

repetition & conditions

knowledge & technology

desire & confidence

strength & weight

 

[A_B]

Yes to both, but lighter is my top pick for anyone carrying at least 10 pounds of fat. It’s amazing how strong I felt in the old days when I dropped that 10 pounds of winter weight. Oh to weigh 195 again and feel like I could yank the pylon out of a boat (I did actually almost pull one out at a tournament) at Pelican Lake). Had to swap boats during my round. I’m sure it was just loose to start, but of course I had to play that up with my ski buds.

 

I have always felt that strength helped me out of jams, but that was against Perfect Pass or hot sticking. At a slim 195, I could take a tenth of a second off a perfectly setup boat if I went ballistic out of my inside turn, as any number of guys out here could do. That extra HP does not help with ZO.

 

So I go with lighter for the majority of skiers, including me X 5.

[ski6jones]

So to the original question, it depends.

 

"If you had to focus on one or the other... What is more important for slalom? Lighter or stronger?"

 

If I'm near an ideal body weight then strength, otherwise weight.

[MISkier]

In the past 10 years, I have skied at 135 lbs, at 145 lbs, and at 155 lbs. At 135, I felt I could use more strength. At 155, I didn’t feel as nimble or flexible. 145, with good conditioning and regular skiing, is just right.

 

Don’t know if that helps anybody, but I do prefer to be slightly lighter if I am keeping active with anerobic exertion and some endurance capability.

 

For me, better technique requires some better agility to implement. I need a little less weight for that.

[Lake3]

@AdamCord says in the gut gate video, you don’t need strength to stay connected to the handle.

[ryno65]

At 200lbs, I feel I am more vulnerable to external factors, like stretchy ropes, driver input, soft boats. Being stronger doesn't help me like being lighter & skiing smarter does.

[OldboyII]

I started this alpine skiing season 18 lbs less than finished previous one.

Performance, endurance, feeling - all components are on the much higher level. Strength is same as used to be. I am not sure if I can ever get that stronger to reach the same result with old weight.

[epnault]

Lighter seems to be better in our sport. I battle with this everyday in my eating and exercising. Since I have started course skiing almost 4 years ago I have reduced my weight by 25lbs and I think this has contributed to my progression. I want to lose another 10 to 15 by next season but it is so much harder. What I am trying for a new approach is the Keto diet along with my CrossFit Regimen. I have been hitting it hard since September and feel great.