What do the Denali Guys Think Are the Best Practice Methodologies?

[skispray]

@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell I created this post because the two of you seem to have applied experimentation and the scientific method to all aspects of skiing with great success and I have many questions about what you've learned along the way. This post is specifically about what you've learned regarding practice methods; Reading your posts this offseason I've seen you mention a few drills often and I'm wondering if there are also other drills you employ and how much of one's water time should be spent on drills versus passes. Essentially, I'm wondering what program you would create if you were coaching a skier and had 100% control over the methods they used when practicing. I also have some specific questions about drills you have mentioned previously...

 

(1) Pass the windshield drill

 

Adam Cord introduced this drill and it sounds like it is the drill to do. I'm excited to spend time on this to improve outbound connection to the handle and get that 'aha' moment that may lead to shorter rope. My question is this: Is this the type of drill one should do until they get that 'aha' moment and then move on? Or is it the type of thing that skiers should be doing regularly?

 

(2) The lean drill

 

This drill has been around for ever and I'm just referring to the drill where you pull out and continue to lean against the line all the way down the lake. The idea is to drill into your head the proper stacked position on both heelside and toeside. My question is: Given the dynamic nature of a wake crossing do you see this drill as having a place in the slalom skiers tool kit? Or is it just for beginners?

 

(3) Two-handed slalom passes

 

A drill that I hear people talk about a lot but never see anyone do. I can see how this could have obvious benefits but, as with the other drills, I'm curious how much one should be doing this relative to running normal passes?

 

(4) Sets in the course: Volume vs. Intensity

 

When skiing passes I normally strive to successfully complete about 80% to ensure I'm building muscle memory through repetition of good form. Do you prescribe to any beliefs about the best way to go about our time in the course?

 

Any other general lessons learned or philosophies on this topic? Given that it's the beginning of the season I'm open to trying new ideas and am interested in what the two of you think about this stuff!

 

 

[Adam Caldwell]

@skispray - How far away from Charleston are ya?

[DW]

@skispray : definition of the windshield drill? (sounds kind of obvious but rather not assume because we know what the definition of assume is). Thanks.

[skispray]

@adamhcaldwell I'm not close but maybe I need to start thinking about a trip.

 

@DW check out the second comment on this discussion by @AdamCord. He has described it elsewhere as trying to get so high on the boat that he passes the windshield.

 

[AdamCord]

@skispray I can't recommend enough that you go get some coaching from @adamhcaldwell . He's thorough and I guarantee you'll be happy you made the trip.

 

While I haven't put much time into what a program would look like to do this, here are my thoughts...

 

The first thing that you need to recognize and understand in order to approach the course scientifically is the geometry of the skier's path relative to the boat. Understanding that we want to learn to ski with the shortest possible rope, it helps to learn that geometry at a short rope length.

 

When Caldwell and I first started trying to understand this stuff, we spent a lot of time free skiing using rope lengths that were too short for us to run in the course. I would recommend you do the same. Free skiing let's you focus on the boat instead of buoys. In the words of the GOAT Andy Mapple "You're skiing with the boat, the buoys are just there for reference." By getting out of the course and using a shorter rope, you will be forced to pay attention to the UP swing and the DOWN swing relative to the boat, and you can start to manipulate how you ski in order to get higher and higher on the boat while still keeping a tight line. This allows you to increase your intensity at the rate that you are comfortable with and get wider and wider until you would be going around the buoys. The best free skiers I've ever skied with were Mapple, Parrish, and Nate. It's not a coincidence that they are also the best course skiers I've ever skied with. They each understood how to ski with the boat.

 

You've read what I have written about the get high on the boat drill, and I think that's definitely worth your time. Personally I don't do it much anymore because once it "clicked" with me, I haven't felt I needed it, but I am sure that's highly dependent on the individual.

 

I am not sure I understand the purpose of the lean drill. If you're skiing properly you should never be in a STATIC lean position. You want to progressively build angle until your speed allows the ski to flatten as you change direction and swing up the boat. There's nothing static about it.

 

With Volume vs Intensity, my take is that it's a good idea to run a lot of easier passes, but you should still shorten to your hardest pass. This is how you can test and see if you're improving, and it will always bring your flaws to the forefront. I can think of at least one skier...ahem..@Horton...cough....who will run 35 after 35 after 35 trying to make it perfect and many times will not even attempt 38. My question is...who cares if your 35 is perfect? And by what standard do you make that assessment? I don't give a crap if my 35 is ugly if I run a clean 38 afterward, and I'm pretty sure an ugly 35 and a clean 35 are worth the same.

[6balls]

@AdamCord agree with the shorten after an ugly...sometimes that next pass goes like magic which is helpful for one's head in a tourney.

Run a shakey pass and it's easy to think "I'm off" today unless you know a good bit of the time the next pass is money anyway.

[Horton]

@AdamCord If I look like a bag of hammers banging around behind the boat at 35 I am never going to get far at 38. My goal is to make 32 look like 28 and 35 look like 32 and then I can expect to run a greater % of my 38s.

 

I do not see the value of spending a lot of time at a pass where I generally fail. I do not want want to practice the act of failing. I want to ski the shortest line length were I am able to get repetition doing everything as correctly as I can.

 

I firmly believe that skiers who shorten too much end up with a lower scores. We all need to shorten the rope but skiers who do not strive to run the hardest pass they can run as smoothly as possible have a lower potential.

[skispray]

@AdamCord thanks for the reply. Should everyone be doing the Get High on the Boat still at 41 off? Or would the rope length vary based on ability. FYI, I run 28 off pretty consistently but haven’t ran 32 off yet (36 mph) and was thinking maybe doing the drill at 38 off.

[6balls]

@horton I think there's a balance. Certainly hammering away at purple for you and I finding ourselves in the lake rather than on top of it over and over again is not productive. I think there's merit in going down the line even it you ran a shakey pass at some length...then going back to train at "x" length for the remainder of that set and for your second set to work on technique/habits.

[AdamCord]

@Horton what @6balls said.

 

@skispray my guess would be that rope length should vary based on ability, but why the hell not give 41 a try and see if you can learn something from it. If nothing else it’ll be fun B)

[6balls]

@adamcord on free skiing short I find most don't get to course width thus keeping the line tight as they are more "behind the boat" rather than up next to it. I know I feel I ski somewhat of a different style/cadence open water than I do in the course even if I try to mimic buoy timing.

I'd like to see a video of a really good skier running short while free skiing to study.

[Wish]

@AdamCord the only thing I think the lean drill can teach is what is a better stack and where on the ski (little forward little back) that stack takes the best advantage of the ski. If someone does the lean drill, to me it should be to play with that, not to get high on the boat or see how much load you can handle and deal with. If you play with the stack and where it is on the ski, you will notice 2 things. When it's not right, the ski will fall back on the boat. When it is right, the ski will speed up and climb higher. And not really past 45*. It can teach that forward while feeling OTF-ish really does make the ski move more efficiently and stays in front of the skier.

[Adam Caldwell]

I think the thing to be careful of is to not to condition yourself to skiing with a certain intensity at 35 and then expecting to run 38 with the same effort. OR even trying to turn the volume up to 11 for 38 and expecting it to work out. Need to be pushing the dial at all the passes so you dont have to try to UP your game for your hardest pass.

 

Cutting the line to the hardest pass every time you ski will also enlighten you as to what tweaks you might need to make.

 

If you get to 38 and all of a sudden the tail sinks to the bottom of the lake at 1 ball, probably need to take some depth or wing angle out to keep it moving. But you may not have felt that at 32 or 35 and might not have any issues at all. Tweak the ski based on what you feel at your hardest pass. Even if you only make one buoy its usually enough to assess whats going on. Just need to be careful the next time out on the water not to judge your opening passes too much, but give them a chance until you get back into the hardest pass again.

 

If the fin is dialed into be 'awesome' at 32/35, its very possible that is the reason your swimming at 38. The demands on the ski is different at 38 and up. Ski needs to be able to sustain speed, and accelerate efficiently at overall higher bank angles.

 

 

[ghutch]

@adamhcaldwell Seems it would be more critical at 34 mph vs 36 due to the drop in speed?

[Horton]

@adamhcaldwell I have to respectfully disagree... at least somewhat.

 

For about more than 50% of my rides I want to go around all 6 balls for 6 or 8 passes on as short a line as possible. I am repeating success over and over. I start spending more time at 38 when I feel that 35 is a technically correct as possible.

 

The rest of the time I burn up the rope as far as I can go. These rides are pretty instructive of my defficets but generally if my gate is crap at 35 it is worse at 38. When I find my faults at 38 it is time to go back to 35 and work on correcting the issue.

 

To be more transparent, in the spring I will run 32s and 35s almost exclusively. By Mid-late season I might shorten to 38 off 50% or even 75% of the time if I am skiing really well. If I am only getting to 4 ball over and over at 38 it is back to 35. (By the way I love 36.5 off)

 

I am also a bit of an freak because of writing ski reviews - I change skis every 20 - 25 rides so my gates are always a S***T show.

 

What I do firmly believe is that too many skiers burn up the rope too often. The result is that they spend too much time practicing missing passes.

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

D$ it! I really hate to agree with Horton. He must be finally learning something.

 

@adamcaldwell, while you may be “technically” right about the ski needing adjustment when perfect at 35 and falling at 1 at 38, I think that is REALLY splitting hairs. I will argue that if a ski behaves well at 35 and the skier can’t get past 1 ball at 38, then 95 times out of 100, it’s NOT the ski’s fault.

 

IMO, for 99% of skiers, the ski should be set up for the hardest pass they can run consistently, then focus on technique changes necessary to learn the next line.

[Jody_Seal]

practice my deep water start!! first and foremost..

[Adam Caldwell]

blame the ski. 100% of the time. You’ll feel way better about your skiing!! Haha.

 

I push the setup issue a lot because at those line lengths it does matter and most people refuse to deviate from a standard/stock setting.

 

Agree with you all, technique is huge, no doubt.

 

[Wish]

I love the percentages put forward in posts. For 90% of skiers bla bla bla... For 50% of skiers...For 95 outa 100. I have to chuckle when I read those. I'm probably guilty of stating my own trumped up stats. I say disagree 100% of the time if you feel the need or like someone's post 100% of the time if it moves you to do so. But backing up one or the other should not be based on how you feel 100% of all skiers, think, act, behave, interpret, understand, care, and so on. It's a weak argument IMHO. If we are gonna move the needle in understanding our sport and maybe, juuuuust maybe embracing new ideas, I think tossing up bogus statistics hinders that greatly at worst and at best negates new thought as it tilts perception. Just food for thought. I'm blaming the driver. He said that would be ok.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@wish, just remember that 93.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Wish]

@Bruce_Butterfield 100% true. :D

[Adam Caldwell]

30% of the time a fin move works every time.

 

Dont blame your driver. Otherwise, there will be no way to blame anyone for anything when he doesn't show up the next time out.

 

 

[Chef23]

Never blame the driver particularly if it is your wife.

[Wish]

@Chef23 OMG no!! My wife is an amazing driver and will never hear anything else. However, have an agreement with other driver. Any crappy day skiing its agreed..whoever is behind the wheel, including me, is at fault.

[DW]

That is what the dog is for, even after being blamed, mans best friend will still come over with tag wagging and gladly lick your face.

[JackQ]

Back on topic of training methodology. I don't know the answer and most likely it varies skier to skier, but I believe mixing up is a key and moderation in approach(s).

 

I at one time just went up the rope every time and beat my self up at my hardest pass, doing as Horton pointed out, practicing missing. I have also tried the back to back endless reps, which doesn't necessarily provide the training for your hardest pass.

 

So I try to do a mixture of each with a synthesis. At the beginning of the season and offseason, I run a 28, two 32, 2-4 35s and call it a day. Then I go to 28, 32, 32, 35, 35, 38, 38 typically getting deep in 38 or running one of them. As the season "warms" up, I do a 32, 35, 38, 2 maybe 3 shots at 39 and then back to 38 which then should feel easier after 39. This has worked well for me, as going back to the hardest pass I can make with some regularity after trying the one I can only make rarely, allows be to get repetitions and try my hardest pass.

[Wish]

I did Andys on line training program. The short explanation/version @JackQ, was that mixing it up is exactly what he scheduled for my practices. There was always a purpose to every set as well. Today you will X and think about X. Next day on the water would be diff but focused. Agree with mixing it up. Regret having gotten away from a more purpose filled and scheduled sets. May have to crack that program open and revisit.

[C5Quest]

Is there a link to these drills?

[Wish]

@C65Quest. No. It was a payed access on line program Andy was running. Not available anymore. But as it relates to the thread topic and a couple posts, his program had practice variety with purpose which consisted of days running up to your line limits.

[Chef23]

I am not the genius that most of the people in this thread (deep -35 when healthy) but I found that I got my best results by mixing focus of sets. Most days I would run at least one set when I tried to ski down the line which for me is 22, 28, 32, 35. Depending on how the 35 went I might take a crack at it or back down to 32 and try to make that much better. Sometimes I would run a 32 then take another look at 35. Obviously if I missed 32 (I very rarely missed 28) I would run 32 again. At my best I was generally 80% at 32 in practice and very close to 100% at 28 off.

 

Some days or sets I would think about specific things I was trying to improve on and run 22, 2 28s then 32s working on whatever my focus was.

 

I only ran 35 once so banging my head on 38 wasn't an issue. I did reach the point where I was getting to 3 or 4 fairly often at 35 so it was at least getting part way down the course.

 

I think it makes sense to take a look at your hard pass regularly but not bang your head against it particularly if you aren't getting past 2 ball.

[Drago]

I 90% agree with @adamhcaldwell

In tournament season, running a bunch of 32s,or whatevers , will make you great at ....running 32s or whatevers .

Keep trying your hardest lengths.the key being you need to try different things! Change your gate, your fin, binding placement, shorts,handle.

[Horton]

@drago i respect you too much to give you a "disagree" or "dislike".... I kind of wish I had a "I respectfully think that you could reconsider your opinion" button.

 

:)

[Drago]

Thank you for the respect :) I'm just saying ya gotta try different approaches to break through the wall. I've seen skiers all over the nation polishing their 2nd hardest pass and they only "get better" when the stars align. I also used to run 6 back to back 32s, cut to 39 and run it, but I'm not recommending that.

[Adam Caldwell]

There are many skis over the years that I was physically incapable of running beyond 35 of on. Heck, there were even a lot of bindings that caused the same issue also. But with one good bump to the fin, or change to the boot and its off to the races getting it through 38 and 39.

 

If you want to get better at slalom. Don't settle for missing a pass or getting one or 2 balls. And don't blame yourself for not being "a good skier". Find people with the knowledge that can help you brake through the wall!

No one is born running shortline. We all had to learn in our own way.

 

Sometimes you’ll take a couple steps back in the process. But trying different things is the only way to figure out what will work best!

 

[Ed_Johnson]

"No one is born running shortline."

My understanding is Jeff Rogers was !!!

 

[Adam Caldwell]

@Ed-Johnson - okay, except for Jeff. He is excluded from the statement.

[Ed_Johnson]

For those that don't know the story behind the Legend. As I was told many years a go, when Jeff first started skiing behind a boat, it was with an old pieced together rope, that if you measured it would have been in the neighborhood of 28-32 off. This is the only rope he had, and as the story goes, the one he used the first time he ever tried a Slalom Course. It was also said that he ran it. With that being true, it would make him probably the only skier in History that never learned and worked his way up through longer lines.

 

From what I know and have seen from Jeff, this makes total sense to me. I am sure Adam knows the accurate version of this,since Jeff truly is a Legend at Throphy Lakes and one of the greatest naturally BORN skiers ever.

 

 

 

[bishop8950]

To cut the line or not, depends on your plan, IMO. I approach most every set with either A) I am going to work on X or B ) I am going to try to find something new to work on.

 

For B ) I will always push up the rope to try to expose what is limiting. Usually me. Sometimes my gear.

 

For A) it depends. I typically will work on the hardest pass I can run while still able to work on X. If things are too hectic or hard I will typically go down a pass to increase my ability to work on X. This said, I will sometimes work on X at my hardest past even if I am not running it.

 

When I have a set where neither A or B come together, I go with C, just do something different to have fun and change it up. Low speed, long line, spinning passes, reverse grip, etc. But this is probably only a few rides per season.

 

 

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

I agree with @bishop8950 I usually either push up the rope, and focus on what is limiting me on my hardest pass or work on my 2nd hardest pass to create as much rhythm there as I can.

 

I try to change it up a lot and do different sets, sometimes I'll run back to backs of each pass and go down the line.

 

Go up the line to my hardest pass and down the line to my opener.

 

During tournament season, its a lot of tournament sets trying new things, and tweaking/refining small things at that hardest pass.

[Horton]

@ColeGiacopuzzi I'm going to come over to your house this weekend and take your calipers away so you don't get some stupid ideas....

[Adam Caldwell]

I'm not sure if other people do this, but its something I used to do A LOT when I was trying to figure out my hardest pass.

 

Knowing that after 1 ball the chance of success of turning 2 without crashing was slim, I would pull up just a touch short and shadow the inside of 2 ball and try to go get 3 and whatever else after that. I was surprised at how many times I was able to shadow 2 ball and run 3,4, 5, 6 cleanly and much easier then expected. This kind of thing gave me a lot more confidence in my ability to "someday" run the pass cleanly, and to just keep taking cracks at it to figure it out.

 

Often times the anomaly of why 2 ball is so hard at your hardest pass all roots in the timing with the boat.

[Horton]

@adamhcaldwell pretty sure a lot of skiers do that and call it 6

[ScottScott]

I call it 5

[brettmainer]

@Dirt would have been thrilled to get away with that on his opener at Regionds last year.

[Horton]

So I almost started to listen to you guys. I was skiing pretty good for April so I started shortening the Rope. I haven't missed a 35 since I started shortening and the last couple of days I tried some 38 and almost got around 5 ball a couple of times. But the reality is my technical skills are not where I want them to be. Every pass was beginning to get heavier and rougher. Today I went back to my old methodology and ran eight back-to-back 32s searching for what it takes for me to be light and calm.

 

I still maintain that this time of the year 75% of my rides need to consist of passes I can run with an emphasis on technical skills and not on Ultimate Shortline. I could probably squeak out a 38 now but my goal is to run a lot of 38s in August and start messing around with 39 more.

[Drago]

Personally, I was talking about the tournament season, not prep season

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Oh S#^t, the end of the world is coming! The ice is coming out of southern Canada and Horton is starting to learn. At this rate, He might actually be a good skier by the time he is in M8.

[Horton]

@Bruce_Butterfield pretty sure you will get to m8 way before me and my averages are already higher than yours.

 

[AdamCord]

My question is why do you have an off season when you live in southern California?

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@horton, that's exactly why your averages are higher. Just wait until you are my age.

AND GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!