If you could design a new boat, what are the most important things?

[DynaSkiPete]

It isn't an "option". Actually the 20' Barefooter is the 20' Open Bow without the sun deck. Nothing else is different just no sun deck.

 

Ski teams stand the boat on its tail to entertain the crowd. Not suggested by me or the outboard motor makers. Drivers have fallen out. Motors have been damaged. Crazy?

[6balls]

@dynaskipete don't know if you can pull it off in the 20...but my '91 Centurion has the wrap around seating which is awesome. It's closed bow so the hollow nose provides a ton of storage. I've got a pile of vests, a step off ski, a wake board, two knee boards, a barefoot boom and some ropes up there--I realize many want open bow but I have so much seating it kind of negates the need.

Behind my wrap around rear seat is MORE storage. It doesn't have a sun-deck across it's just an open space about two feet X the width of the boat. Used to keep jump skis back there before jump skis became 90 inches or more. Also have thrown seat cushions down and carried two more people facing middle on a cruise to watch fireworks.

 

In any event, wondering if in the 20 you could do both wrap-around AND sundeck with storage beneath or if it would get too cramped. Will try to remember to shoot a pic of my interior--I have storage beneath all seat cushions, too...ropes, handles/gloves, and a cooler that drains to the bilge under rear facing observers seat.

[6balls]

Sorry dlb post thought i had a photo started and can't now delete post.

[WIRiverRat]

I really like that interior. I think this is a very good alternative to all the V-drive "cross over" boats that will most likely slalom better and be much less expensive while still giving the same amount of storage. A boat that can take the whole family to the beach but also be a pretty good slalom tug. So the question is where can one be tried in a slalom course to see how it really performs?

[Wish]

@6balls

 

[DynaSkiPete]

Almost anything can be done with custom built boats. It just takes time and costs money. I have had requests for 20' Open Bows with twin motors but never built one yet. It can be done. We have toyed with building a 20' Closed Bow with a single motor well for recreational skiers. Hydrodyne built a lot of them and some were AWSA Certifited Tow boats way back when. Mid 1980's or so. Storage area could be made as big or small as a person wants. I found a couple pictures of a 20' Open Bow with wrap around seats for a customer that wanted to replace his inboard. We have never built a 20' Closed Bow with a full interior yet as most of these go to ski teams with 3 motors.

 

 

Customer added a tower and electronic shift and throttle. Not sure if I have good pictures of it with the tower.

 

[Ckrueg]

@Wish here's a few more pics.

 

The platform works very well and my ski is a 69 inch HO TX so it's large. I also really like the seating layout as well. Easily will seat 5, and I'm sure I could fit 7 no problem. Also the storage in the bow is endless. I could sleep up there it's so big.

[DW]

@DynaSkiPete : Since you asked, our ski group ski install process is to stand on platform, dip ski then set crosswise (90 deg to boat & fin off side) on platform (DD inboard), soap double boots, slide feet in, sit on transom (this step is done by all and to me is a key item I notice in transom / platform geometry) to snug laces, drop butt on platform and drop in water or jump off platform in to water. Barefooting is walk on to platform and jump in water so much less critical. We use the full width of the platform since it is there so a blockage would be something to get used to and like many, did it early in my life skiing behind an OB. I notice that we all tend to use some sort of grab handle to get back on platform either as a cutout in platform and/or a grab handle on transom.

[skimtb]

I’ll echo @WIRiverRat as I asked earlier too, how can we ski one.

Pete, I’ll bet if you picked an evening or early weekend day on some calm water, you could find some “volunteers” on here to see how it works.

Maybe even someone on a ski lake would let you drop in.

Need to see tracking and speed control for Free skiing and course skiing.

Decent feedback on that would help with your interest.

[DynaSkiPete]

Are there any ski lakes in northeastern Wisconsin?

[WIRiverRat]

I don't know of anything in north eastern Wisconsin. I am in La Crosse and have a course. I'd love to ski one. With speed control I think it could be darn close to an inboard. We put on a few 'fun tournaments" that are just sanctioned as practices so we can pull them with anything. If you want some feedback I am sure we would be happy to pull one of our tournaments, you would have people of all abilities to try it out.

[DynaSkiPete]

Now I'll need a boat to use. Speed control does not exist on any boat we have built so far. The outboard manufactures don't take water skiers seriously so they spend no R & D money on us. Not a big enough market like there is for pontoons and fishing boats. Hmmmm?

[WIRiverRat]

Would an old perfect pass work on an outboard? I may have just about all the parts to scrap together an old perfect pass 6.5. Its not as good as the GPS control but its better than nothing. No idea if there is room to mount that servo motor or if the new outboards need drive by wire reqiuring something altogether different.

[thager]

There are people on this site that have installed PP on their outboards. See "Perfect Pass on an outboard."

[BraceMaker]

Question on Hydraulic Steering.

 

Generally inboards don't use them except for the Saltwater series mastercraft, the rudders take little force to move and people generally feel that it is "better" to have the feedback for running a skier.

 

How does this change with the outboard? I know you don't want to be muscling large outboards without hydraulic. What impact would that have on slalom course driving - do you feel like you'd be able to respond the same way?

 

[DynaSkiPete]

Hydraulic steering is a must on everything except a 75 or 90 outboard.

 

I know a lot about putting Perfect Pass on an outboard. A lot of work and fabricating. They make an outboard model of Perfect Pass. Greg Hind from down under is the expert. I'm hoping I get to spend some time with the Mercury Smart Tow system which is supposed to be slick that we are putting on a new 20' Open Bow with a 200 hp. V-6 Mercury four stroke. Since Mercury has had it for several years I'm wondering if I'm the only one that knows about it?

 

My tow boat driving friends laugh at the idea of Perfect Pass. They will tell you a good driver does not need it and is better than it is because they can think. It cannot not.

[BraceMaker]

@DynaSkiPete very much - used to work at a marina that did mostly giant pontoons with 2 or 3 big engines on them, the benefits of hydraulic helms are certainly there for IO/Outboard boats.

Here's the scenario though, I see no reason a hydraulic helm wouldn't be superb to a cable helm on an inboard other than the actual "feel" on the rudder. Routing would be easier, the hydraulic lines could go right down the side of the boat instead of having to loop down through the floor under the engine etc. But we don't use them due to the feel for people pulling slalom skiers. So I'd be interested in the feedback of people who've driven an outboard through the course as to their thoughts. With the loading we put into rudders on ski boats it'd be nice to have a wheel that could be neutral while the boat still went on course.

 

The tow boat driving friends I assume are driving tow boats for Show skiing and barefooting? In those two concepts I would agree, when you are pulling up a varied group of people to a varied speed with lots of randomness going on you need to be disengaged, I don't for instance use perfect pass to navigate around boats at a sandbar, nor do I like it to engage at high speeds so I don't use it to blast across the lake when its rough (just like I turn off cruise control in the car when driving in snow or traffic). But the beauty is that when a computer can sample your speed 100 times a minute and make corrective actions your brain is free to think about the important things, like say where is that kayaker going or if that person you saw diving off the swim platform 200 feet from 1 ball just swam towards the course.

[thager]

@DynaSkiPete Rubbish!

[WIRiverRat]

Maybe the Mercury speed control would be good enough. The way I see it you will not convert many people who are skiing 38off to an outboard, but you may convert those looking for a crossover. Do those people really need zero off or stargazer, or just a pretty darn good pull? Dynaski Pete, if you come up with a boat and want some slalom skiers to give it a go and provide some feedback I'd love to pitch in some gas money and see what it can do in the course. At one point years ago I did have a drivers rating so I hopefully wouldn't run over too many buoys.

[DynaSkiPete]

I am willing to back up my facts thager. I'm willing to wager no one can slow down twin 300's on a Dyna-Ski. No one!

 

I don't want to convert anyone. There is no need. If a person's mind is closed, they are not learning anything new. Like the time my buddy with his new inboard was trying to pull four barefooters and failed on numerous attempts. I pulled them fairly easily with my 17.6 and 150. Faster that they needed to go. He learned something new.

 

I may be able to borrow a boat with twins. Any takers?

 

 

[skimtb]

I think the issue is speed accuracy. And simplicity of it. I’m pretty confident a large outboard will hold speed decently. Two outboards more so....

The question is exactly what speed is it holding and how easy / quick was it to get there?

[h2onhk]

@DynaSkiPete I agree slowing down a 300 much less twins is unlikely. Especially during long free skiing sets. The speed control comes into play during that ~900' when it counts. We are average slalom skiers (15-32off) and use a portable course. My boat has ZO but the other 2 we use are hand driven (both 351's with 285hp). When hand driving, we always time each set with a stopwatch and are very consistent at holding 16.8-17.0 times. We all score more buoys behind the hand driven boats. Not because the end time result is different, but what actually happens during that 900ft span. I really like the boats you produce and would love to come and ski behind one if given the opportunity. Northern WI is a bit of a hike for me.

[eleeski]

@DynaSkiPete Speed control is critical. There are thousands of posts concerning the nuances of PP vs ZO or even ZO settings. Boat buying decisions often hinge on what speed control is offered. I won't train tricks behind a boat with rpm based speed control - it's worthless at best and can screw up my form. Slalom skiers are way pickier.

 

PP is a minimum for any useful evaluation.

 

I'm putting a ZO engine in the old American Skier experiment. Control as many variables as you can.

 

Eric

[thager]

@DynaSkiPete None of todays kids can drive to tournament standards. Standards are tighter than when stopwatches ruled. They simply don't practice it as there is no need for it! Secondly, there needs to be some variation in the pull or it is like skiing on a cable attached to a train. Not fun! Both ZO and PP have acknowledged that. Believe it or not I am actually on your side. I would like to see some Tournament outboards like when I was a kid and skied behind Hydrodyne outboards and IO's. I know they can be designed to pull and track like any inboard. Simple fact is almost no one on this board with any interest in skiing tournaments is going buy any boat without speed control.

[DW]

@DynaSkiPete : Funny on your friends thoughts on speed control, and they probably hit that little button when in their trucks / cars on the way home from the lake.

What is missing in the speed control conversation, consistency over a group of drivers. Speed control provides the same pull regardless of who is at the wheel eliminating one variable. Also, speed control does not have a bad day, humans, as good as they are, have a high degree of variability even with a grey matter processor that has more power than any speed control unit.

[Killer]

@DynaSkiPete with all due respect have you or anyone you know driven a twin 300hp rig through a slalom course with a skier? Have you even pulled a slalom skier behind one?

 

If you need 2 - 300s to slalom, you're wasting your time even thinking about this. Its the opposite direction of where we need to go.

 

I've spent years behind and in the drivers seat of outboards including a Hydrodyne. For serious slalom they are no match for an inboard, and they are also no match if you like to do any wake sports.

 

Also, there is much mention of "tournament" skiers - I think the polls suggest most members here aren't actually tournament skiers, perhaps many aspire to be but most wont ever ski a tournament.

 

My advice is to keep it simple: good seating OB with 150-250hp capable, 20' and a swim platform you can actually use - the little dinky ones are no good. ( I like the look of the ones on that centurion and a full wrap around would be better).

 

[ALPJr]

@DynaSkiPete the sport needs more entrepreneurs like you. Keep pushing. Your boats offer versatility that inboards cant match. Speed control is a nice option for most of the market but I don't think it's a deal breaker. I'm a slalom skier, in the course 95+ % of the time. Have of the time we drive by hand, half with PP. The next boat I buy is likely to be a hand throttle. Hardcore tourney skiers are a small slice of the market. Where I ski maybe 1 in 20 skiers enter tourneys. That's about 50 skiers at a ski club on a public lake and a small private pond. On a couple of other public lakes around us it's more like 1 in 50 or less that might go to a tourney or two a year. Keep up the good work!

[eleeski]

@ALPJr A few years ago Mastercraft gave us a ZO boat to use for an event. ZO was such a game changer that we didn't give the boat back, we bought it!

 

The quality and consistency of the ZO pull makes a real difference at any level of skiing. Of course ZO is not the only possible speed control. If a competing outboard system works as well, great! But ZO is the standard to match. If an outboard wants a chance as a ski boat, it needs a real speed control. Otherwise the prejudice against outboards you see here will continue.

 

Eric

[6balls]

An outboard isn't going to compete directly...I think the deal is here helping @DynaSkiPete build the best outboard possible. Something that can be used as a versatile, roomy, family ski boat that could perhaps be used beyond rec slalom to rec slalom course skiing.

 

If I were to improve on my '91 Centurion Falcon Barefoot as an outboard boat...tighter hydraulic steering (less play), no wood, throttle by wire, speed control, better designed platforms, ballast tanks to weight it for slow speed stuff--it doesn't like trick/wakeboard/kneeboard speed wants to plane and go fast...or sink back in. Other than those things..as an outboard form/function it kicks butt for what it is...and my guess is my flat hull throws a better wake than a dynaski...but I dunno. I hope Pete can make his

boats even better with feedback.

[BraceMaker]

It'd be fun to calculate prop slip of an outboard at trick speed ballasted vs. an inboard at same.

 

My suspicion is that you're going to see more slippage out of that outboard particularly at those speeds just based on how they "feel" when you throttle the boat up. Seems like the I/O's and Outboards have a tendency to slow off if you hold them there despite the RPM staying constant.

[DynaSkiPete]

Sweet. More input is great.

 

You cannot compare the old Hydrodynes with old outboards or even new ones and new style Dyna-Ski boats just like you can't or should not an old inboard to a new inboard. Hydrodyne stopped making outboards in 1990 or so. Almost 30 years ago!

 

A 300 hp outboard is way more powerful than a 300 hp inboard. The outboards are rated at the prop not the crank like inboard motors. Big selection of outboard props available and they are easy to change.

 

While I've been tempted to shake up the world of three event skiing, USA Water Ski has made it crazy with their financial requirements to have boats tested and approved. Besides they would crap if I showed up with twin or triple any size motors. No one would know how to drive it. Punching the throttles wide open is not for the faint of heart. It is dangerous. People can fly out of the boat easily. With power assist hydraulic steering even a three motored boat drives with one finger.

 

I've driven a slalom course as have most of my show ski boat driving experts at some point in their lives. My lake no longer has one. No interest it seems. Since the GPS Speedometers I typically use read in tenths of a mph it is easy to see deviation in speeds. Did you know that the depth of water affects the speed slightly? If the boat has enough power there will be no need for throttle changes. Think about this concept. Only have to steer the boat.

 

What is sad is that inboard boats have at least a 50% margin on them. It may be greater, I have not run the numbers for a few years. Not to mention the high prices for parts and service. I have a buddy that pays to summarize and winterize his inboard. Crazy? One brand of outboards is self winterizing. No cost. Push a button. As many times a year as you want to. No service needed for 3 to 5 years depending on the brand. Warranties of up to ten years on outboard motors. 10 years!

 

The prejudice is partly because no one will admit they paid to much for something or that what they now own isn't better than the old boat they replaced let alone a lowly cheaper outboard. I get that. Nothing I can say or do will ever change that.

 

What did I miss addressing?

[eleeski]

@BraceMaker I'm not sure the issue is prop slippage. We figured out the trim settings and worked really hard to get good trick speeds on our old IO. But it was a challenge. Inboards have a tendency to plow so are less sensitive to the bow rise that happens at trick speeds. Bow rise makes speed stability difficult. Something easily dealt with with a paddlewheel (PP) or fancy accelerometers (ZO) controlling the speed.

 

In reality, an inboard is out of tolerance (more than +- 1/2 mph) in rpm mode at trick speeds. While good drivers could give decent rides by hand, not anymore with ZO and PP making us lazy. Good outboard or IO drivers are even rarer.

 

The bubbler MC had prop slip engineered in. PP had no problem holding speed. A little catch accelerating through 8 mph but stable at all set speeds. Prop slippage does not seem to be an issue.

 

Eric

[Ilivetoski]

2 engines= twice the gas. I skied behind outboards for years, they don’t compare to an inboard. If I was just open water skiing or not cutting the rope, outboard would be fine. But even a 20 year old Nautique is light years ahead, in terms of what a serious slalom skier, wants in a boat. We had a 250 HP engine on an outboard, I’m not quite sure I believe that an outboard with similar HP rating is “way stronger” than the inboard. Could be wrong but I have tried to ski behind a center console fishing boat, with a strong outboard on it (not sure on HP rating) and I could instantly tell how much harder it was to get up behind. It could have been bc of the “pylon” being one of those that you hook on to each of the tie down hooks and it comes around the engine and sits near the water. Personally I would never go back to skiing an outboard

[eleeski]

@DynaSkiPete Regardless of how much power is available, you there is a "need for throttle change" if you want consistent speeds from a boat. Also, the feel we are used to makes use of the timing, intensity and duration of the throttle change. Speed control is so important for a good skiing feel.

 

Prejudice is overcome by experience that doesn't reinforce the prejudice. If you pull me by RPM, you will not help (regardless of the boat or motor - I pull hard enough and inconsistently enough to vary the speed too much). With an active speed control that mimics ZO reasonably well (PP with a paddlewheel?), you will convert many.

 

Eric

[BraceMaker]

@eleeski - true I hadn't considered that some of the "response" of the engine was going towards bow rise before forward motion compared to the flatter bottom inboard boat.

 

How much different do you think 2018 ZO is compared to 2008 ZO, that being if you rolled back all ZO settings to their original release how would you ski?

[eleeski]

@BraceMaker Stan's 2008 MC hasn't been updated. His lake has always been a tough slalom lake. I'm not sure the drop in buoy count behind his boat is due to the ZO.

 

My 2011 MC is dual puck updated a couple years ago. I didn't notice a difference in buoy count.

 

The new boats feel a little different but that's lost in the hull and lake difference.

 

The trick pull feels exactly the same on all versions of C3. I haven't been able to feel the difference between C3 and C3*. PP with a paddlewheel on my 04 MC also feels close enough to ZO C3.

 

I haven't slalomed behind the ZO American Skier yet with the single puck. Tricks feel the same (love that American Skier wake!).

 

My Zbox friends love theirs once they are dialed in. Some of them do really well in tournaments. I can't trick with them though without the paddlewheel. ( @BHarwood I have a paddlewheel and my drill waiting for your boat). I'm probably too picky with my slalom preferences but the trick paddlewheel is critical.

 

There are lots of variables in skiing performance. A good speed control overshadows everything. Differences between good speed controls are minor background variables.

 

Eric

[DynaSkiPete]

Heh heh heh it is funny how a person will take one experience and use that to apply it to every boat and motor.

 

Dyna-Ski Boats hold steady speeds from slow no wake to WOT. The Dyna-Ski hull design does not have the on plane off plane characteristics of many I/O's and outboard powered barefoot boats. The barefoot boats do have a better wake for bare footing but the cost of this is the on/off plane issues and others. When was the last "new" outboard barefoot boat designed and sold? Outboard motor technologist has improved by leaps and bounds since then. Please understand that a semi planning hull is not an efficient design compared to a planning hull.

 

As for fuel consumption. Ski Teams that I get information from tell me their inboards suck gas like no tomorrow which is why they have big gas tanks while the modern outboards sip fuel. With the outboards pulling the big acts. Personally I use about two gallons of fuel per hour skiing unless we are bare footing a lot. Then I may run thru 4 gallons per hour. We seldom shut the boat off since the fuel used is so much less than even 5 years ago. Outboards get there best fuel economy below 4000 RPM's. Seldom do I hit 4000 RPM's.

 

Wake of a 17.6 Open Bow at 40 mph.

 

 

 

Wake of a 20' Open Bow at 40 mph.

 

 

[6balls]

Outboard barefoot market was too small to continue...specialty boats. They kicked butt when you had '87, 240 hp carb powered MC's trying to pull footers. Even could compete in some ways in slalom back then w/out speed controls. Newer inboards are plenty quick for footing and some have good wakes. Still making Sanger DXII barefooters? Wake rocks.

 

Dynaski looks state of the art for outboards, no need for multi-motors unless show skiing. Even my old 3.1EFI Yamaha will literally hurt you or land you on the floor off the rear facing observers seat on hole shot. We've pulled six 200 lb footers, I've pulled 16 skiers from the dock. I'd love to play around in a new 20 ft Dynaski with a 225 given I've had tons of outboard experience, and in the last 20 years lots of inboard experience.

 

To each their own...personally I can't see buying another outboard...but for the right mission plenty of reasons to do so and I'd take it hands down over an I/O or all that jet crap being sold today--great big, boat-sized jet skis.

 

For sure keep refining and selling to your target, Pete. For me this has been a fun conversation.

[GregHind]

@6balls regarding bow rise and slow speed holding in your outboard. Where is the fuel tank? Have you installed transom wedges? What prop do you run?

[tjs1295]

Sounds like the best solution would be to get a Dyna-Ski down to WIRiverRat so people can put it through it's paces. Ideally, a single engine model that a normal family would purchase. Based on responses, speed control seems to be extremely important in a ski boat. I'm not disagreeing. It doesn't seem like speed control is a great option for an outboard at this point (in the future perhaps?). But, couldn't people at least get a decent idea how well THIS EXACT boat pulls skiers without speed control? Or isn't that possible? Would good skiers (not me) at a minimum be able to provide the following comments/feedback....."Skis pretty well. If it ever gets speed control, it would ski great." Or..... "It will never ski well no matter what speed control they come up with for an outboard. The hull is garbage for slalom, trick, etc."?

 

The comments about how bad an outboard pulled in the past just aren't relevant. My first experience behind a real inboard was as a kid with a 1988 Ski Nautique. It was awful compared to our inboard/outboard. Almost died crossing the wake. If I based my boat buying decisions on a 30 year old boat I would have never experienced skiing behind really nice modern inboards.

[UWSkier]

Did someone say outboards?

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bjss_WoHJcX/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=ml0i9iaqhxdb

[VONMAN]

I have a 1992 Bare Foot Warrior, powered with a 2015 200SX direct injection 2-stroke, powered transom jack, with 2 cable steering. 21"pitch 4 blade prop, pulls up footers and skiers no problem. No wake, no spray, no ski tip drop in till 41off. Tracks straight, will do 56.7mph trimmed, no exhaust smoke, and sips fuel like a fine wine. Hull is carbon fiber, light and easy to toe. And the cherry on top is Perfect Pass Wake S. The S stands for slalom.

It has the full suite for GPS speed and Mapping with end course times +/-.02second. And that same Perfect Pass pull we love.

Perfect Pass does not sell a system for outboards, but what I did is ordered a setup for a 200hp V-6 Mercruiser 4-stroke I/O, it's a pretty simple install. The hard part is finding a place in the engine cowl for the servo. I place it on a bed of high temp silicone. And because the Mercruiser uses the as cable connection, easy/peasy. In the sub-menus you can change from a 4-stroke V-6 to a 2-stroke V-6. I now have 4 options, GPS Slalom, RPM control, GPS wake control (couldn't make a wake if I tried) and hand control system off.

RPM control is great for cruising across a large lake.

So you outboard guys can have it all.

 

 

[eleeski]

@DynaSkiPete I'm not saying that an outboard can't pull skiers. I'm saying that NO hand driven boat will give me an acceptable pull. Rock steady is not a good feel. If you think your boat doesn't need speed control, you haven't figured out skier needs.

 

Harsh but real. You asked what was needed. Small slalom wake, good tracking, enough power for jump, a big steep trick wake and SPEED CONTROL THAT FEELS LIKE ZO.

 

Don't fight the speed control requirement. Make it work (PP technology is probably there) and you will expand your market.

 

Eric

[h2onhk]

@VONMAN ...where have you been this whole conversation! That thing is sweet.... Great ingenuity!

[Wish]

I think he's better off tapping into a different market other then purest inboard junkies. But he's learning a great deal on what would maybe sway some of us and certainly open the eyes of others who never thought of an outboard. Heck look @VONMAN rig. That checks off a lot of boxes and it's old..no offense. I think there are way way more skiers that could give two whips about ZO and the latest upgrade (totally sucked when it first came out) then us that do. While I do like the inboards, we are the minority by a long shot in the waterski world. Majority; public lake boaters having a boat with rap-around seating, sun deck, fuel efficiency, easy to tow, easy to lift on a lighter lift system, more maneuverable around docks or shallow channels, speed, power, tiny wakes, ample room inside the boat, on and on. I'd say there could be a huge market for this boat with enough exposure at its price point compared to an I/O or even an old inboard. Agree that most are making assumptions on how an outboard would feel like based of 20+yr old experiences. I can only think of one 20yr old inboard with great wakes 1997 SN 196, the rest of them...meh. Look at how HO, Markus Brown, Radar, AWSAs new virtual skiing, and other companies trying to tap into the majority of recreational/semi course skiers out there. They would not be doing that if it was just us inboard guys and gals. And it those skiers that could care less about the latest ZO. @DynaSkiPete get in touch with @VONMAN and make that an option (may never have a taker but....maybe). I'm glad for this thread and glad he is defending his boat design as it gives another option to a vast audience of potential skiers...and not so much to a wake-boarder/skater.

[Wish]

@VONMAN so in GPS Slalom mode, do you feel, hear the motor making multiple speed corrections in the course? Is Zbox something that could be added to that system?

[6balls]

@vonman had one of those bad boys before the Falcon Barefoot...our Warrior was bought new in '88. Had a 225 Carb on there then switched to a 3.1 Yamaha EFI V-max. Quickest boat I've ever experienced out of the hole.

 

The only reason we got the Falcon Barefoot in '91 was the small interior in the Warrior--basically solved all Warrior issues and gave up just a little in performance.

 

Super cool boat you have there. It can be made to work...but in general can't do an inboards job at being an inboard. I own both...one is a high performance family recreational boat and the other is a dedicated ski boat. An open bow version of the same dedicated ski boat also affords certain things an outboard cannot and vice-versa.

 

Other than mine...I can't remember the last outboard ski boat I've seen...most are rec boats, or fishing boats...and the others are the over-grown jet skis. That should tell us something.

 

[DynaSkiPete]

I'm not trying to tap into this market. Just gathering information. Some of which is very good. I still wish someone would give me actual measurements of the area they feel they need to put on a double boot slalom ski. No one I know even owns one. The pictures are great but I have no scale to determine accurately what is needed. Sorry. Please.

 

All boats are currently "hand driven". There is a person behind the wheel hopefully.

 

Thanks to VONMAN for jumping into the conversations. I know there are people out there that have made Perfect Pass work on outboards. Perfect Pass (the company) has not been willing in the past to do anything other than sell me their products. No promises and no help. No boat manufacturer wants to modify any other manufacturers products (outboard motors) during product assembly and then have to service the stuff and warranty it or void the motor warranty. Consumers can do what the want and assume the risks. Inboard dealers don't want to be outboard resellers, provide service and have to share the profits. It costs the dealers to much to be a motor dealer in this manner.

 

What sucks is the technology is in the outboard motors and their control systems already. It would not be a mechanical system like in the past. All the motor manufacturers need to do is write the control software. On a NEMA 2000 buss system there can be GPS, Paddle Wheel and Pitot tube speed available. All three at the same time can be there. The motor computer knows everything about all the motor parameters. Speed bumping up and down can be done at the touch of a button.

 

The button on the right is RPM bump. Middle button is in and out of gear. Left button is start and stop. This option can be had with one to five motors all on one button.

 

 

 

So there is all the data to make it work in the system of ETec, G2 and Mercury Four strokes. If all of the people on this group contacted Evinrude telling them it is needed, they would spend the money. Mercury would tell you they have it already if you talk with the right person. Why they have never promoted this I'll never know or understand.

 

Thinking anyone can slow down 600 hp in a straight line is wild. No offense but I'm not ever likely to take a boat to people to test their theory. The show ski clubs of the world would love to have a skier show up and ask to ski behind a twin or triple to see how it holds speed and tracks. You might learn something. Imagine the improvement in jump distances if the boat did not slow down? Might pull the jumpers over?

 

 

[ALPJr]

@DynaSkiPete I wear dbl boots. I'd say you need the minimum platforms to be approx 24" deep and 15" wide. The skier would don the boots at an angle so they'd have about 28 to 32" under their ski. Many will also need a surface to hold or steady with. Could be a rope protector rail above the top of the motor, the motor cover or transom deck. Ideally, they will be able to sit on the transom deck once they have the boots on. Then they usually ease their butt from the deck down to the platform, then ease off the platform into the water. A little larger platform surface would be very helpful for two skis and beginners. Ideally it would be best if the skiers dropped into the water away from the prop, so if the transom deck and platform are configured so the skier can go off the side of the platform rather than straight out the back which could be to close to the prop.

[WIRiverRat]

Pete,

The hulls from these show ski boats look totally different than the pictures of the single rig 17ft 6in and 20ft boats you showed before, are they different or just stripped down for show ski use? There is a local show ski team in my area that runs a twin rig and a single but I believe those hulls are at least 20 years old. I am sure I could get a ride behind one but I don't want to give you obsolete feedback as I assume things have changed quite a bit (they do have newer motors).

 

I have driven the show ski boats as well (again 20+ year old hulls with newer motors), but this was 12+ years ago, but I found the twin rigs were harder to get a constant speed out of than a single rig. The boat either wanted to go 15mph for a swivel skiers or 45mph for a barefooter. In between there to get it dialed in to exactly where you wanted within .5mph could be a little challenging. Could be that there was so much power available it is hard to really fine tune a speed. Could also be an older hull, and older controls and things are easier now. The wake on that old twin rig was less than desirable for slalom skiing, but those boats were weighted to keep from flipping, the second engine adds a lot of weight, and two props makes for a very different table behind the boat.

 

As for the swim platform size I would take a guess that it at minimum needs to be half the size of my nautique platform. I'll go get a measurement this afternoon for you.

 

If you find yourself down in my area (la crosse) I'd love an opportunity to ski with you in the course. I think you are making some really cool boats and there has been huge advances in outboard tech that most of us are totally unaware of.

 

I could get a ride and drive the local ski teams single rig (or twin) in the next week but I think your boats have changed enough that I would not be giving you anything valuable.

 

I will say with the abuse show ski teams give your boats they do seems to last forever with the hulls seeing multiple motors over their lives.