SSG223 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Many of you were kind enough to respond to an earlier post regarding different boats, but at that point, I was just exploring a bit, and trying to decide if we wanted to go to separate boats for surf vs skiing (we live on a lake so we have room for two boats - $$$ is another thing!). At the time, general advice was to focus on Nautiques, Malibus, and Mastercrafts, and less so with the "off brands" (e.g. Centurion's, MB's, Supra's, Moomba's, etc). I think we are going to try to pull the trigger on two boats, and am interested in any advice you would have on the top three ski boats / hulls PERIOD, even if they were all from one make (as an example, making this up, 94-97 Nautique, followed by 98-02 Nautique, etc). I'm purely an open water skier, don't have access or interest in the course, just want to advance my skiing on our lake. So to me, my uninformed priorities would be: Soft and flat wakes at 32 mph, and 28' off rope length Quality and reliability I think I'd prefer fuel injection over carburated, although the ease of working on a carburated motor is attractive I would want / need some form of cruise control - doesn't have to be the best, just good enough for open water skiing Like most skiers on my lake, I'm an older guy (52), want to do this once, and find something that gets me another ten years. After that, I'll be lucky to walk down to our dock, let alone get up on a ski... Fine with open or closed bow, although it will only be my son (driving) and me, so I kind of prefer the looks of the closed bow. Welcome any guidance on other considerations, many, many thanks in advance for your time and insight / guidance you are willing to share! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted July 31, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted July 31, 2018 1997-2001 196 PERIOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG223 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Thanks Wish - That looks like ONE boat! :) So no contest, Nautique from those four years is the one to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted July 31, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted July 31, 2018 For price, quality and the wakes you need...yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 If you prefer closed bow, I agree. 196. And I'm a self-admitted Malibu bigot. If you made me pick two others: The PS190 from the pre-deathstar years (95 and 96 I think are both the "good" hull but a MC bigot will be along to correct that shortly I'm sure), and the '01-05 Malibu Response (though they're harder to find in closed bow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 196s, 94 prostar 190 (have one and it's good even slower) I'd jump from 94 prostar to a 99 prostar 195 IMO. I tend to find 196s problematic on open water. The bow seems to drop way more into waves (for me) than the prostar. And by this I mean I cannot keep the bow out of water on those boats when dealing with boat traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dvskier Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 2,000 rpm, bow up, no water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 For me 91 to 97 PS 190 (or sport star 190 to around 99), or 93/97 SN. No problem with a carb'ed boat that's been taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 For your skiing requirements an early 2000s Response LX is a good fit. At 32 mph and 28 off the wake is great. They can be found with PP and fuel injection. Obviously 196 would be good as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bananaron Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 All of those boats would be fine.I think its like trying to decide on a ski......You have to drive and ski the boat if you can.I would also say a Gekko GTR is a fabulous ski boat as I had one for 16yrs and the wake and tracking is fantastic.If you can find one it will be less dollars then the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG223 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Thanks all for the feedback, this has been very helpful! Challenge with these used boats is it's a little tougher to go out and test, not like they demo these things like new ones. So this really helps me fight through all the uncertainty and focus on a few "can't miss" boats. Thanks again for taking the time to review and share your experience, really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobonator Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I think a early 2000s Malibu sportster lx, would be a perfect fit for what you're looking for. Its also known as one of the best barefoot boats as well if you have any interest in that. I see those at very reasonable prices quite often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 There's a couple of beautiful 1997 SN 196's on SIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 @dvskier Gotta get your skier sometime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Killer Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 For value the mastercraft sportstar is a great option as well. It is the 95-96 prostar hull, arguably a better skiing boat than the 98 prostar. Only issue I typically see is a lot of them came with the 5.0L motor and no EFI. Find one with the 5.7, EFI even better. Also same hull as the 195/x5. 196 is the best ski boat of the era though. Best quality, best driving boats, best skiing boats. I'm amazed at how solid my 01 is through rough water for how small it is. Never taken water over thr bow and we are on a busy public lake. Have had to gun it over a wave or 2 but they would have swamped any 20 foot ski boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted July 31, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted July 31, 2018 Excalibur Re-powered bubble butt Ski Nautique equipped with Zero Off 1997-2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted July 31, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted July 31, 2018 The Gen 1 Malibu LXi ('03-'06) is a very good option although only configured as an open bow boat. Very good wakes, GM power, one drawback it does tend to dip the bow in rough water or through rollers. Big 3 are all quality boats, each have their nuances, cruise control should be a high priority (you can add later if needed), FI or carbed based on you comments should not be a big deal, ski boat operating window does not stress a carb much other than a slight effect on cold starts and perhaps fuel economy (if not well calibrated). Post '00 options are probably all FI, it would be mid 90's availability that would make you consider carbed. Smart move to not compromise your ski boat, you will be much happier with an AWSA approved 3 event selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller scorban2 Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 I was in a similar situation last year, and based on the feedback from this forum and other research, I went with the TSC1 (97-01) Ski Nautique. I'd originally been considering a 91-94 MC PS190, but for only ~$2K more, I found a 97 SN in MN with ~920 hrs. Here's a link to the thread I had when looking for one: Search for my boat Since getting it last fall, I've put 48 hours on it, and done a ton of skiing. Coming from an I/O, the wake isn't even noticeable to me (30-32 mph, 15 off). My skiing has improved quite a bit this year, and while coaching has helped a lot, I attribute a lot of the progress to being on the water behind this boat. One of the things I love about this boat is how nice the long line, slower speed (26-28 mph) wakes are. Don't get me wrong, they aren't the same as the wake at 32 mph, but they are very nice compared to most other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dvskier Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 I had a 1997 SN and now have a 2004 196. Can't beat the wakes and reliability. You'll generally find the Nautiques have been taken care of also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 Pre 97,get a MC. Post 97,get a 196. My ski finish in 16.95 but my ass is out of tolerance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RAWSki Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 Since you are going to have a wake-surf boat that will probably be a roomy open bow I would definitely consider the 93-97 ProStars. EFI, well built and really nice ski wakes at the lengths and speed you are discussing. Later MCs were not as impressive for slalom until the 2014. But plenty of good boats from 97-on from SN, Malibu and even the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dvskier Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 @Andre the 196 was not available until 2002, you may be thinking of a SN 1997-2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 Ski nautiques hulls 61-69 70-81 82-89 the 2002 hull 90-96 no wake zone 97-01 tsc 02-05 tsc2 196 06-09 tsc3 196 2010 - current 200 2018/19 Ski Nautique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shansen345 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 My humble opinion: 1997 and newer Ski Nautique has got to be my #1 pick to fit your requirements. 1997s-2001s in particular have a special place in my heart, though. Close second has got to be 1995-1997 MasterCraft ProStar 190. 1998-2000 "SportStar" is the same hull as this. Don't get a 1998-2000 ProStar.. Then there's the 1999 Malibu Response. Oh boy, that is an underrated boat. I'm not as big of a fan of the mid-2000s Responses as many are. I can't put my finger on what it is, but there's something weird about driving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 76SS Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 Timely thread as I'm in a similar situation, looking for two boats. 1st world problem, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG223 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 76S&S - I haven't surfed behind all the boats, but that Centurion Ri237 was pretty damn nice. I don't think we can swing a boat that expensive though (or the Nautique G23). Was told the cheaper Fi237 surfs really well, but I haven't tried it yet. Nice thing is that it's easy to go test all the new surf boats, everyone seems more than happy to take you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Cent Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 94 Pro Star at your line lengths. 95-97 will have less pray if you shorten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller matthewbrown Posted July 31, 2018 Baller Share Posted July 31, 2018 97 Nautique, they should have never ever changed one thing to the bottom, just press the production button and then lounge chair/Budweiser for rest of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Gar Posted August 1, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2018 MALIBU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 1, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted August 1, 2018 @matthewbrown that's not the first time I've heard that. Very reputable long time ski coach has run every SN back to the early 90s. He specifically singled out the 1997 as the hull to own. I'll never get rid of my 97. Repower planning and lagisitics has begun...here's hoping it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted August 1, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2018 All I can say is I love my 97 bubble butt. I think the 2014 prostar wake was as good - maybe even better at my longer lines and slower speeds, but other than that, every boat I have ever ridden behind ( I haven't ridden all of them) just makes me love mine even more than I did before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller hemlock Posted August 1, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2018 @SSG223 Honestly, you mention the top 3 makers of tow boats, and anyone of those will serve you well. And even some of the other brands in that era. The key point is to find one that was well maintained. That will be the gem you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynaSkiPete Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 These are slalom boats not all around ski boats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted August 1, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2018 No Pete. The 97 Bubblebutt SN is regarded as the one of the finest 3 event boats ever built...that's slalom, trick, and jump. The trick table is nice,flat, with the right edges. Boat has tons of power, especially when you get the JodySeal upgrade...and then it becomes a barefootin monster! That's 4 events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skimtb Posted August 1, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2018 Agree on the well maintained comment as Priority. 800+ hours and maintained and clean is better then 300-400 hours and a mess. As stated above, Tsc1 or tsc2 nautique are best bet. 94 prostar is really good too (super boat w back seat out for only 2-3 people) and looks good, but will be hard to find in great condition. I don’t care for wake on 95-97 190’s, I like my 94 205 better. If I were shorter than -32 or -35, I’m sure that would be reversed.... I’d look for a tsc2 myself. That was my favorite boat until new prostar. I do ski a tsc1 frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller scorban2 Posted August 1, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2018 @Wish the only reason I'd get rid of my 97 SN is for more room if we continue to use it as a recreational/family boat too. Then I'd go to a mid 2000's response or a 2014+ prostar depending on how much I can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 1, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted August 1, 2018 @scorban2 never felt the need to get bigger boat. 3 on the bench and driver. More in back seat of pulling tubers or something and 99.9% of what we do happens right off the dock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Deke Posted August 1, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2018 Soft and flat wakes at 32 mph, and 28' off rope length Quality and reliability I think I'd prefer fuel injection over carburated, although the ease of working on a carburated motor is attractive I would want / need some form of cruise control - doesn't have to be the best, just good enough for open water skiing Sounds like a "99 Response LX" but might be hard to find. I think most owners like myself just kept them. Keep in mind though that a boat that old is going to need some TLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller slow Posted August 2, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 2, 2018 Original TSC Nautique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtjc Posted August 2, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 2, 2018 Having recently acquired a 08 CC 196 I would encourage you to look for a CC TSC hulled boat with a GM 350 5.7L motor(02+), aka the PCM Excalibur. The Ford GT40 is a great motor but hasn’t been made for over two decades and some parts are getting hard to source, fortunately, an option for replacement ECU’s have been found. The original TSC’s(97-01) is a great skiing and driving hull, however the dash of the 97-99 is just to dated looking for me. Other MasterCraft options would be 95-97 Prostar(98+SportStar/Skier) or 01+ Prostar 190/197. My last boat was a 99 MC SportStar(95-97 Prostar) hull. It’s a good boat, but higher freeboard and not as sporty as similar SN or Responses, however, the higher freeboard is better for kids or pets. Malibu has many options to consider the Sportster, Response(Closed Bow, LX step over open bow or LXI walk through open bow) and the larger Sunsetter LXI. Like others have mentioned, condition, use history and maintaince history maters more than hours The dedicated brand forums are also a good source of info once you narrow your search. MasterCraft https://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/ MasterCraft Skier/ProStar/ProStar 190: A History (1968-2009) 1995-97 ProStar 190/19 Skier/SportStar 19/ ProStar 195/X-5: A History 1996-2000 ProStar 205/205V/Maristar205/X-star/X-2/X-1: A History Correct Craft https://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/ http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/default.asp Malibu http://www.themalibucrew.com @Killer The MC SportStar was only offered with the GM 305 in 98, in 99 the GM 350 5.7L TBI became MasterCraft’s base motor. All 94+ MC’s are EFI, some 93’s with LT-1 engine are EFI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rayn Posted August 2, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 2, 2018 One more vote for the 1999-2002 Response lx I had mine for 17 years.great wakes at both short line and long line at multiple speeds. The thing I always loved is in is a closed bow in the back with the playpen up front. It is the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ22 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Is there no love for the Supra Comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 3, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted August 3, 2018 @GZ22 huge love as that was my first boat and one of just a few Waterski Mag recommended as a top used boat to look for along with the bubble back SN and 91-94 MC. Supra was great but had a tad bit of a 22off bump (similar to most in 80s and early 90s). Other then that, the hull, design features, looks and performance were decades ahead of their time considering it all started in the early 80s. It was the boat that all others were chasing. But most important, they just looked cool sitting in the water considering the boats from that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller sunvalleylaw Posted August 3, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 3, 2018 I'm a Malibu Barbi. Lots available, great, great wake, good layout, etc. Specifically Response LX from that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Murrski Posted August 3, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 3, 2018 Been some mention about the PS-190 so I gotta give a shout out to another boat that has very similar characteristics and that's the 2000 MB Sports Boss-190. I got this boat as a promo from Kent Garret as soon as I graduated from Chico State. 18-years later and I still love it! No mechanical issues, added PP SG w/Zbox and she still performs like the day I got her minus the damn Accuski (that system sucked). I did spice her up with a new skin a few years back - design credit goes to @twhisper. I'm always checking for good deals on a SN-200 or MC post 2014... one of these days I'll bite and get one but honestly haven't been in a hurry because this MB gets the job done for me and my family. But, if someone out there makes me an offer I can't refuse - I may be ready to pull the trigger on a newer one. It only has about 750hrs, 95% private lake time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtjc Posted August 3, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 3, 2018 This is a good read Waterski Mag 5 Standout Used Ski Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 76SS Posted August 3, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 3, 2018 ^ good information in that article @vtjc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 76SS Posted August 3, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 3, 2018 I've seen one post with concerns on the GT40 engine found in the 97 era nautique. Any other thoughts on this power plant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller matthewbrown Posted August 3, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 3, 2018 GT-40 was solid, 5.8L 351 Ford. But Nautique had a special engine option that year, the Chevy 5.7L Apex engine 350. Really smooth power. Kreg Korinek had that setup down in Arizona and it was as good as it got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtjc Posted August 3, 2018 Baller Share Posted August 3, 2018 When I was boat shopping I had concerns about long term parts availability for the older multi-port injection motors PCM GT40, Indmar LT1 and LTR. Not sure how valid that was. I did think it would be easier to switch a throttle body injected boat to a carburetor if needed, than a multi-port one. EFI is nice and was one of my criteria for a boat. There had been an issue with replacement ECUs for the GT40 no longer being available but this thread Planet Nautique GT40 ECU discusses a work around for that. I have heard mixed things about parts availability for other marine items. It seems the GT40 is a solid power plant but the GT40 engines were marinized and put into new boats by CC into 2001, past when Ford has stopped making new blocks. MasterCraft/Ilmor is doing something similar now putting new 5.7L GM motors into Prostar after GM stopped making the blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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