Breaking at the waist

[HighAltitude]

I was skiing pretty good up to this point but suddenly for the last 8 sets I have been breaking at the waist. I made some (what I thought were) minor fin/binding adjustments before that and have since tried go back to the original setting but to no avail. I hurt my low back yesterday after breaking at the waist and trying to hold on. I expect to have to wait a solid week before getting on the water again to let my back heal. I'm hoping that does the trick as I'm definitely in some pain today.

 

After I get back on the water... any advice? I was reading Fin Whispering today and it says tip engagement is mostly affected by LE and binding location. I am skiing at 32 -34 MPH 15 off on an HO Syndicate Omni with a Denali fin. I have also been running wingless. I am considering adding a wing with about 6 degrees but moving my bindings back .250. I could also move the leading edge back about .10 but I will lose some FA because I'm pretty much against the upper back metal on the fin is hitting the rear of the fin block.

[gregy]

How did you do stock settings? I'd be tempted to put it back to stock with stock fin. Adjust from there. Stock fin is fine for 15 off.

[theinvisiblesoul]

I had the same issue for years. Mostly due to my "over active ski adjustment syndrome." I purchased the Whisper Fin and set it to their specs and enjoyed skiing again less the calipers. It's a joy playing with the ski and adjustments by way of 1/4 turns. May not work for you but I love it. gb

[rockdog]

Honestly I think the week off may well fix it. Sometimes you can just ski too much and bad habits creep in incrementally and you don't even realise. Having the break can be a reset. Worked for me in the past.

[ballsohard]

I break at the waist on my onside but not my offside ?

[BraceMaker]

@ballsohard try the differential washer?

[ballsohard]

I'm using that now

 

[Fam-man]

I’d suggest going back to what settings were working and see how you are after a break. I tend to break at the waist when I’m tired. Can be too long of set, can be too many consecutive days of skiing

[skialex]

At which side do you break at the waist? There are no minor binding adjustments unless you are using a mikrojust or similar. Also couple of thousands could make a difference especially on “finicky” skis.

Could you go back to where you started?

Take out some tip maybe?

If nothing works going back to factory settings is a very good start.

Good luck,

Alex,

[nate93]

Was there a change in water temp?

[ToddL]

The root cause of breaking at the waist can occur at many points in the course and for many reasons.

 

One or more of the following may be at play in your situation:

1) poor basic body position where the waist is already too bent causing shoulder to be in front of hips

2) lack of core strength or a tired core

3) a feeling of too fast in the turns (usually the off-side one) and a bad habit of using bend at the waist/reaching forward to "slow" the ski

4) a bad habit of looking at the turn buoys which causes shoulder to come forward and down (a.k.a. slight break at the waist)

5) excessive, early load out of the turn before completing the turn and getting the ski tip under the handle

6) hitting the wake while already less than ideally stacked

7) coming up out of the lean too early such that the ski is flat at the second wake or the "landing" off the second wake causing more of a jolt

8) a ski that is prone to "stalls" due to tip pressure, bindings too far forward, excessive wing, or other setup problem

 

Basically, anything that hurts your "stack" will put you at more risk to not be able to resist the forces which could make you bend at the waist. If those forces exceed your core strength's ability to resist, then you will break at the waist.

 

Without video of your skiing, it is impossible to determine which of the above may be a contributing factor for you.

 

[jercrane]

#4 is my huckleberry

[Keith_Menard]

@jercrane I was looking at that too thinking...huh...didn't think there was anything wrong with that!

[HighAltitude]

Thanks all for the comments. Lots of things for me to think about. First of all there has been about a 10 degree shift in water temp since I was making pretty much every pass. I never thought about that. (about a month ago, I set my new PR of 3 @34/15) Second, I made a lot of changes with my setup thinking I could get a wee bit more performance and while it's pretty close to what I had before, I probably need to break out the calipers again. Lastly, several of the "root" causes I am guilty of and need to fix.

 

Upside is I went to my Chiro and my back feels pretty decent compared to the pain I was in yesterday. I was pretty worried and frankly totally discouraged that the rest of the season was going to be a wash. Today I'm back to being optimistic. Thanks a lot!

[ToddL]

Regarding #4... When you see really smooth and talented skiers, look at their heads/eyes as they start their reach and through the turn. They keep their heads up and their gaze forward and up. They are using their peripheral vision and looking at the down-course turn buoy (looking at 3-ball while rounding 1-ball, etc.) to determine sufficient space/width and turn timing.

 

 

[Fam-man]

@HighAltitude having a similar experience where I've seemed to plateau on progress. I've got issues with breaking at the waist and losing efficiency. Also ski straight to the ball and closing off my offside turn. After reading this thread and thinking about what I wanted I had a great set last night by keeping things simple and staying at an earlier pass that prevents scrambling or pushing hard. For me that's 15 off at 34 mph. My thoughts before and during each pass are below. These work for me, you may need to consider your own wording to execute the actions you're after

1. Global Focus (keep head up)

2. stand tall (especially in gate glide and between wakes and ball)

3. handle close (connection from wake to ball)

 

I did extra passes at 15 off 34 mph to reset technique where I wanted. Then had good passes at 22 off 34 mph keeping my focus the same.

 

My suggestion is don't try to think about too much, the 3 things above are almost too much for me be mindful of during a pass. #2 really seemed to help with speed and efficiency out of the turn and through the wake. By actively standing tall coming into the ball I was leaving the ball in a better position. Drill it in at a pass you can run before going to your challenging passes.

 

Personally (as a 15 offer) I believe as long as settings are close the fix is more in me than the ski.

[TheBigHead]

@HighAltitude i hate to break it to you but at 15 off no thousands of an inch changes to your fin are going to fix your skiing, you aren't breaking at the waist because of fin depth/length or wing angles the sooner you get that out of your head the sooner you can focus on what really matters.

 

Set your fin to stock (put the stock wing and fin on if you have to), get your bindings in the right location(stock) and forget about it. Get healthy, put the fin whisperer book away, get on the water and work on your skiing.

 

Whenever you get back to the dock and think something like; "my fin isn't turning 2/4 ball" have someone slap you.

 

Post a video of you skiing!

 

Then we can really help.

 

I apologize if this seems a bit harsh, there are people trying to help you but have no idea how you ski!

[DaveD]

@Fam-man After watching a video of myself the other day, I'm doing the same thing you are. I've gone back to 22off and concentrating on correcting the issues. I shortened to 28 last night just to see if I keep the body position at the shorter length. I wasn't able to do it consistently so the second set was back at 22.