Baller jjackkrash Posted August 29, 2019 Baller Share Posted August 29, 2019 2019 was the last model year for the 6.0l in the 2500s. GM has a new 6.6L gasser for the HDs. Its got 40 more HP and 80 more lbs.-ft. of torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted August 29, 2019 Baller Share Posted August 29, 2019 @escmanaze I can’t seem to find the the numbers this am but IIRC $~14k for the 409. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted August 29, 2019 Author Baller_ Share Posted August 29, 2019 @escmanaze 409 engines will be around for while. (Knocking on wood) Non cat direct drive bob tail $ 11, 700.00 plus shipping. Want trans add $2000 However once they do disappear it will be the last of non cat option. The small block vortec engines are still available through other sources other then PCM and indmar. These nee engines can be converted to econtrol dbw but it will be substantial increase in prices over what we could have bought in a new plug and play purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Doug Posted August 30, 2019 Baller Share Posted August 30, 2019 I fill I need to jump in on this I just received 3 bobtail engines and 3 ZO systems for a 98,99 and 02 to repower this will make a total of 12 boats I have repowered with numerous conversions thrown in there that’s a Nautique boat with a Chevy motor already installed converted to ZO.Customers that I have done this for have been totally satisfied also have done Mastercraft ,Malibu. Here’s the bad news Indmar and E Control have quit building the 3 header E control ECM GCP based they only build 4G based which not only makes converting a Mastercraft and Malibu impossible if your ECM goes out on your boat that has this a GCP based ECM your SOL the good news is I have been working with Freddy Krueger and E control to get this resolved and it looks like we may have an answer I will be testing one in the next couple weeks.My next thing I would like to address is this notion about well I can’t practice behind a repowered 196 because I won’t be skiing behind it in a tournament well unless you are bucks up and own a Mastercraft,Mailbu,Carbon Pro and Nautique you never know what your skiing behind at a tournament they all have different wakes and different pulls so just suck it up and go put enjoyment back into tournament skiing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven_G Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 I've been contemplating a re-power on my 97 ski nautique 196 with the GT-40. Boat runs great but I'm trying to find a way to get zero off in the boat. Has anyone been able to convert that engine over? I've been doing a lot of research on new throttle body, new ECM, etc to see if I can keep the block and convert. Has anyone had any luck with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted May 14, 2020 Baller_ Share Posted May 14, 2020 @Steven_G unfortunately the only viable option is to drop in a new 5.7. I did my '97 in 2012 and it was just over $10k doing most of the labor myself. If you have a good condition '97 and need ZO, its absolutely be most cost effective way to go. Oh, and here's what you can expect:) https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/21902/nautique-vs-nautique/p1 If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted May 14, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 14, 2020 @E_T did you have an idea about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven_G Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 @Bruce_Butterfield I was afraid you would say that. Next order of business, convince my wife to spend $10k on the boat :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted May 14, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 14, 2020 @Steven_G problem is I think it’s more like $14.5 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted May 15, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 15, 2020 @Steven_G sometimes you can find donor motors from other boats. Most of them will spin the wrong way for use in a Nautique though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted May 15, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 15, 2020 Any ZO motor I’m aware of will spin correct for a 1990+ Nautique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller sunperch Posted May 15, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 15, 2020 @Steven_G We re-powered our 1998 Nautique a few years ago and could not be happier! $10K is a lot cheaper than buying a new boat! Added bonus is boat taxes and insurance did not increase with the conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Hallpass Posted May 15, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 15, 2020 I made the switch last summer on my 98 Nautique. @Orlando76 is correct in his price estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted May 15, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 15, 2020 @Orlando76 an old guy once told me Nautiques always run their engines backwards, thus the opposite prop rotation. Is that done in the transmission? Haven't ever worked on a CC so never bothered to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted May 15, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 15, 2020 @UWSkier up to 1988 all Correct Craft with exception to the Skylark turned right. Right handers started drying up so CC swapped over to lefty’s most 1989+ With introduction of the 1.23 and the now leveled engine. The “1.23” which isn’t really 1.23, swapped the direction so props could still turn opposite of competition. There was a super small handful of 93&94 SN, “The Scrappy’s”, came with right hand and the 1:1 transmission but they’re super rare and pretty distinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven_G Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 @Hallpass which engine did you use? It looks like the 5.7L isn't available anymore which seemed like the easiest option. Does anyone know where to find refurbished engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted May 28, 2020 Baller_ Share Posted May 28, 2020 @Steven_G - Michigan Motorz is a good source for marine engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted May 28, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 28, 2020 @Steven_G are you saying PCM is out of 5.7 engines? Did you call? If so, wow, we knew that was coming but dang took like a year? And just to be clear, you are looking for a complete bobtail engine? If so Mighican Motorz wouldn’t be much help as I believe they’re just reman long blocks as I believe anybody would be. You might want to get in touch with Skip Dunlap, it seems he frequently comes across complete take outs that are still strong. Pfft, this ZO crap is way over rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Hallpass Posted May 29, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 29, 2020 @Steven_G. PCM Excalibur, 350. Came straight from PCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jetsetr Posted May 29, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 29, 2020 Purchased a brand new GM long block 5.7 from Michigan Motorz this spring, had it in 3 days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller disland Posted May 29, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 29, 2020 @Jetsetr did you convert it to marine yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jetsetr Posted May 29, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 29, 2020 @disland No sir, came from GM as a marine engine... 2 year warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted May 30, 2020 Baller_ Share Posted May 30, 2020 @Jetsetr cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jetsetr Posted May 30, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 30, 2020 @Wish $3500 delivered to the door.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GaryJanzig Posted June 5, 2020 Baller Share Posted June 5, 2020 Would the PCM H5 Engine fit in a 1994 Ski Nautique? I have 2060 hours on my boat. The last compression check had all numbers well within tolerance(200 hours ago). Any idea how many hours I would expect to get before I need a rebuild? It is a carbureted 351 PCM Ford. I am hoping parts will continue to be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller sgregg Posted June 13, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 13, 2021 Does anyone have a template/plans for building the engine box spacer/shim needed for a 98SN/non-cat 409 conversion? We know the height requirement, just looking for something better than the cardboard/magic marker tracing we have so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 @sgregg go to correctcraftfan.com. There’s a guy with a reverse gel 2000 196 that did the same conversion. All he did was raise the box, as far as I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller sgregg Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 Thanks - haven’t had any luck so far making contact with the guys that did the conversion on the reverse gel posted on the CC forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 If you can find an engine and have any mechanical ability, pulling and replacing an engine is just not that hard. Unhook hoses, bolts, and electrical connections and lift out. I just replaced a rusted out oil pan on my 196 using a chain hoist on my daughters old wood swing set/play fort. you could just as easily use a tree or build a gantry. Chain hoist was less than $100. How to' videos for Direct drive boats are on "you tube". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted June 14, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted June 14, 2021 @sgregg What i have found on pcm conversions is that the remote oil filter seems to be the biggest impinge on closing the motor box in bubble back nautiques. I have approached it two different ways. The easiest was to cut the oil filter bracket down and reweld it. Second was to find a doner motor box and cut off 3 " around the bottom and section it to the bottom of the existing box base via fiberglass and then recarpet the base.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ski6jones Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 @thager Git-R-done!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller sgregg Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 Thanks @Jody_Seal and @thager - I made contact with the CC Forum guys. Trying to replicate their spacer. Seeing how much marine grade plywood is going for these days, a donor engine box might have been a less expensive approach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 @ski6jones Got her done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MDB1056 Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 Agree with @thager - marine replacements in older boats are pretty simple if you’re replacing with something that uses all the existing connections. Take lots of pictures and label connections and it’s straightforward. Long block swap should be breeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted June 14, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted June 14, 2021 @MDB1056 Not as straight forward as you think. Shaft angle on early 196 was so shallow that we removed the oil drain kits to make gt engines fit in boat. Now repower with an engine that has a drain kit and oil pan deeper ... what ya going to do?? Each repower i have done there were some significant issue that had to be addressed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MDB1056 Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 @Jody_Seal - agree with you if you’re replacing with something with different dimensions / specs. Bound to have PITA issues. Long block replacements though with no changes to affect main connections I'm sure you'd agree are pretty straightforward though. Mine have been not that difficult. Even short blocks which require a bit more assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted June 14, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 14, 2021 Well, shoot, as long as we are talking about fit and shaft angles, I just realized I have a whole new problem. My bubble butt is the open bow variety. I'm told the shaft angle therefore changes and stuff. Is there a track record for folks successfully re-powering an open bow bubble butt? Or are all the past case studies the closed bow kind? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted June 14, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted June 14, 2021 @escmanaze Yes the SNOB has different shaft angle however it is at a steeper angle then that of a standard SN. 14 and some change degrees on the SNOB and 13.8 on the SN . Repowering malibu's and old MC's have a pretty steep shaft angle i have done both with no clearance problems with hull bottom and oil pan.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted June 15, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted June 15, 2021 I decided to build a pan with a parallel to water level or flat to earth pan bottom and oil suction bell to match. Pretty easy, just need a competent welder. Chevy V8 oil pans are pretty cheap for the stamped steel ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller chrislandy Posted June 15, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 15, 2021 And be prepared to make/source some odd bits and bobs during the conversion. when I did mine, I went from a pre-vortec to dart heads, little things like the oil pressure sender clashed on the manifold as it has a slightly different shape - just be prepared for a lot of tooing and frowing to the hydraulics shop, then the throttle bracket didn't fit properly so made one of those etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted June 15, 2021 Baller Share Posted June 15, 2021 @DW that was one of my favorite jobs at the engine shop, did a lot of dry sump and low profile oil pans and they nearly all hit the cranks so I got to sit there with my Dykem spray and take the pan on and off 100 times marking and relieving the baffles. Fun times. If you were doing a light weight aluminum block build I bet you could have a longer shaft made up and shift the whole engine and trans forwards a bit to gain clearance. Losing weight so if you were careful about it you probably wouldn't make the boat porpoise if you did a light weight build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted June 16, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted June 16, 2021 @BraceMaker - I thought they were supposed to be 'self clearancing' :D Have done that very same thing, lots of very late nights doing engine assembly. Back in the day when AOR (album oriented rock) was a radio station thing so building to Pink Floyd melodies. My oil pan project was part of an all aluminum engine build to reduce weight. To your comment on engine position, as I moved the CG forward on the boat it clearly tracks better even as it gets significantly lighter (which was something I was wondering about as the pounds came off). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller sgregg Posted October 16, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2021 Doug Moss just finished doing a ZO conversion/6.0L repower on our ‘98SN - super happy with the result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edmund Posted October 16, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2021 @sgregg That looks great. Wish I had it in my '98 SNOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ski6jones Posted October 16, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2021 @sgregg my buddy is taking his in for that upgrade in a few weeks. Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edmund Posted October 16, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2021 @sgregg @ski6jones What is a ballpark figure for the upgrade cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller sgregg Posted October 16, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2021 Right around $15K for parts (409, series 80 transmission, ZO) + labor, minus what can be recouped from selling the GT40, series 40 transmission, Stargazer/ZBox). Upgrading the transmission was not required but we plan to keep the boat forever. The only issue we ran into was impingement between the forward edge of the aft/center floor panel and the exhaust elbow/tubes. The exhaust elbows had to be moved back about an inch to clear the cooling system plumbing on the back of the 409 and after shifting them aft, there wasn’t space for the floor panel without shaving about an inch off its length. I suspect there is a more elegant way of making room for the exhaust than taking a saw to the floor panel… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted October 16, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 16, 2021 Saws all are groovy.. Nice installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MDB1056 Posted October 16, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2021 I’m guessing at 40% of that cost is labor alone, and at least another 10-15% is markup on parts. Save a ton- do it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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