Going Wingless, how does it change your fin setting?

[Lakebum]

I find my preferred fin settings differ more from stock settings than others do. I am curious if others that go wingless have the same experience. I am a 32 off, 2-3 @35 off/34 mph skier and still prefer most skis without the wing. My assumption is that the reduced drag causes a need for different settings, not just minor adjustments based on style, weight and preference. Others?

[ballsohard]

What ski do you use and what is different from stock about your settings? @Lakebum

[Lakebum]

Connelly GT

My settings are: 6.906, 2.525, 0.735

Stock for my weight: 6.86, 2.495, 0.770

@ballsohard

[ballsohard]

That seems like a lot of fin, maybe you are seeking more drag and or stability from your fin due to the fact that you aren't receiving the drag and or stability that a wing would provide @Lakebum

[Lakebum]

Makes sense to add more tip pressure. @ballsohard, are you in the wingless crowd or not?

[ballsohard]

@Lakebum hell no, but I will say that I recently took a degree of angle off of my wing from 9 to 8 along with some other fin moves and it lead to a breakthrough in my skiing. I have skied wingless in the past on other skis and it hasn't done it for me yet.

[ballsohard]

@Lakebum do you feel that your ski smears at all with those settings?

[Lakebum]

@ballsohard, I do feel like I get the right amount. I’ve tried less depth and the ski seems to be less stable and harder to hold an edge through the wakes. Just seems to me to need more fin since there’s no wing. I like how the ski carries out wider and turns seem to complete more w/o the wing.

[ballsohard]

Where are your boots compared to stock? @Lakebum

[Lakebum]

@ballsohard they are 3/8” forward of stock. Thoughts?

[Rednucleus]

I instantly improved from making half my 32mph 15's to most/all of them, and ran my first batch of 22 off's ever. My change - wing from 7 to 8. I don't understand why one would remove a tool that aids in tuning the ski.

[Lakebum]

@Rednucleus, just try it and you’ll understand. Wider at the ball and more complete turns for me, more predictable and faster thru the wakes for me. Would never have believed it.

[BraceMaker]

@Lakebum do you take lessons anywhere?

 

Plotted on a graph it sounds like you are a real outlier. Not that it's wrong, consider whisper fin has people 1+ inch forwards of stock.

 

But I'd be real curious what your setting would like pushed to stock with a stock wing angle. Then tuned with a wing.

 

I skied my D3 with no wing but am now using a 5.5 on an HO Omni

 

I guess my point being I 100% agree with no wing for those leaning the course and working up to 34 but it sounds like you might be getting extreme settings to counter lack of wing.

[Horton]

@lakebum your settings are extreme.

 

Old school rule of thumb was that a wing was not needed until 32 off 34 mph.

 

Currently, I do not know any "no wing" advocates among top skiers or coaches.

[ballsohard]

@Lakebum I'd be curious how you would ski if you put your settings at stock with a low amount of wing angle and adjust from there.

[Lakebum]

@ballsohard that’s where I started on the Denali c65 last year, couldn’t get within 6 balls of my regular run and ended up taking the wing off. Then went several balls past without the wing. Had a ski malfunction and got on the GT. Tried 10 different settings before ending up at those above. Just got the c75 and wil start with adam’s recommendations.

[Lakebum]

@Horton agree, it’s rare. It was recommended by a coach who’s daughter was a top skier as a junior. I tried it and it seems to work for me, never have issues with blowout at the ball but realize I’m not into 38.

[Lakebum]

@Rednucleus I have taken lessons at several schools prior to taking the wing off. I’m 56 just trying to have a turn that’s consistent and a wide sweet spot. Seems to work for me. I tried the whisper fin on the GT with and without the wing at recommended starting location and ended up back on the stock fin w/o the wing. But will go back to the wing on the new setup with c75 and see what happens.

[Lakebum]

@Rednucleus and @Horton I guess that’s why I started this question because I believe that there’s a whole different set of “typical” settings for skiers that go without the wing. Surface area, edge change, tip pressure and smear are all affected by the surface areas engaging with the water and the vectors involved. Removing the fin is a dramatic change in drag, surface area and resistance to edge change. It seems to generate a much different set of measurement considerations. I would be curious what @AdamCord thinks about no wing.

[bigtex2011]

@Lakebum I have been able ski wingless on a few skis. HO A2 and A3 and KD Element .

 

It's probably the free-er feeling that you like. You could probably reach out to Seth Stisher for tuning questions for the connelly

[Lakebum]

Thanks @bigtex2011 the glide and extra speed is nice. Did you move back to adding the wing?

[AdamCord]

@Lakebum It looks like you've made the adjustments on the Connelly that I would have suggested to account for taking the wing off. Back, longer, and deeper with the fin. The wing adds a lot of drag, so removing it will require more fin further back to compensate.

 

I haven't tried the c75 without a wing yet, but people are skiing it with both the s-wing and a normal flat wing with success. With your preference for no wing, I'd suggest you start with the flat wing on that ski.

[bigtex2011]

@Lakebum I am currently skiing on the D3 NRG R1 with a wing. It feels like a fairly quick ski so I am running a wing(7 degrees)

[Jaypro]

@AdamCord I tried the C 75 with out the wing and hated it! It was a good exercise, but that was about it! Really gave perspective to what it was doing and I am only a 22' off skier

[Lakebum]

Thanks @AdamCord ! That’s what I’ll start with.

[lpskier]

Not sure if this is true, but I heard Regina lost her wing during her set at Nationals and still ran one buoy short of her record.

[Drago]

And her boot was unbuckled? Seriously, the best skier in the world didn't check her wing??

[liquid d]

@Lakebum while skiing without the wing may be fun and free the ski up, if your desire is to run shorter line, and progress in that direction, you need to "bite the bullet" and put a wing on it. There are no top skiers at 36 or 34 that don't use a wing. Don't waste time trying to figure something out that's already been figured out over the last 30 years, by thousands of skiers.