Another small wake question

[MNshortliner]

I have a 9 year old starting to ski the mini course around 26 to 28 mph and is rocking it pretty good. The thing is, I am pulling him with a 16’ Crestliner with a 45 hp tiller. With that boat, it is wide open and the wake is compairible to a grown up behind a ski boat (not a factor at all). When I pull him with the ski boat at full legnth or 15 off 28 mph the wake is huge for him. We ski behind a ‘96 ProStar 190. I love the boat but for him it’s like hitting a wakeboard wake. I’m pretty sure I know the answer about what wake is best but wanted to hear what options I have. Looking around the $20k mark. And imagine it will be hard to beat a Nautique 196. I really like Malibu’s but have not had many chances to ski behind them. How is the slow speed wake on the early 2000’s Response.

[LoopSki]

bubble butt

[Wish]

+ bubble butt and you don't need to spend 20k to get one.

[Killer]

yes many of the new boats are better, by how much though? Hardly measurable IMO. Your boat is pretty comparable, also seeing as its 1000lbs lighter than the new boats!

 

for a lot of us who learned on 70s and 80s inboards, a 96 prostar is world class. I have a 196 and the small wake is hard to beat, even by today's standards but pretty dang close to what you're in... Response will also be similar. unless you move to a 200 or 14+ prostar, you are mostly wasting money IMO.

 

are you using the junior rope?

[Horton]

it's actually an interesting question. For no more than $20,000 what is the smallest slow speed slalom wake? I know I'm going off on the fringes but I wonder about Infinity or late '80s era Brendella?

[Jaypro]

@Horton the Infinity has a great wake at that speed. My ski partners dad has one and it has a great wake at all speeds. A bump at 22, but that is about it.

[UWSkier]

There are better boats at that speed than your current MC, but I don't know if there will be anything that's WAY better. Have you tried anything with your current boat? Bow weight? 1/4 tank of gas?

 

The wake on my '01 Response is pretty good at those speeds, but it's still bigger than an aluminum fishing boat.

[BraceMaker]

@Horton - the moomba boomerang which came up a few weeks back might be in the mix.

 

I would put forth the Nautique 176.

 

 

 

[Cent]

86 Mastercraft. Wakes increases after 86.

[BraceMaker]

They do but all old MC throw great trick wakes until about 28mph. I wouldn't call them small

[Ski_Dad]

The wake on our 2003 Malibu LXI is great at 28 mph 15 off - that is the speed my boys ski at - this is just my oldest goofing around the other day and I just grabbed a frame from the video.

 

 

[h2onhk]

As much as I like helping people spend money on boats, maybe a different boat isn't the only option. Your prostar isn't the perfect boat for him but its not the worst either.

We learned the course around that age behind an 88 nautique on the 2001 hull which might as well have been a surf boat back then. If he's growing like my kids are at that age (stupid fast) it may not be long before he is ready for the prostar. Maybe slow down the boat speed a little and make sure he's on the right size ski. Let him gain the confidence of running the full course long line at slower speeds with the bigger wakes and I bet he will progress really quickly as he grows. You can always upgrade boats later if things really take off and you find yourself with a future national champ.

[ALPJr]

Our family taught our kids and many of their friends with a 92 PS190. The beginner wakes at 15 off from about 19 to 24 mph we’re almost nonexistent on that 91 to 94 hull.

[andjules]

+ 1 to the idea that your Prostar 190 probably isn't that much worse than whatever has the absolute smallest wake (different story if it was a 205 or X-14, etc.). And it takes a lot of work to sell your current and buy a new one.

 

With the right attitude/approach/communication, the Prostar might actually be an opportunity to help him become a better skier. IIRC, @Bruce_Butterfield has some experience/techniques/philosophy with getting kids through this stage in their development.

[BraceMaker]

@ALPJr I mean - might be remembering overly fondly - I have a 94 and love it. But I have specifically from my spouse that she thinks those wakes are large compared to the new prostar.

 

[andjules]

That said, in my experience, a mid/late 90s Boomerang or an early 80s Mastercraft are great in that speed range (and waaaay less than $20k), but they're tiny boats with tiny interiors.

[Chef23]

The Malibu Response from about 98-2002 has a good wake and you can find one for under 15K. No ZO but that is a different issue.

 

At 9 years old 28 mph is way too fast to have him running the course but that is a different topic and there are lots of threads on that.

[MNshortliner]

Thanks for all the comments. I am really happy with the ‘96 prostar, it does everything I want, so maybe I will have to try some more weight up front. We always try to run 1/4 tank or less of gas. I think this time every year I just look for an excuse to upgrade.

[MNshortliner]

In the pics it looks like there isn’t much wake at all. Maybe I need to tell him to try to be on edge of the ski more across the wake. His ski jumps pretty good now but he is pretty good about crossing it. Pretty sure he will be trying and full course by the beginning of next summer and maybe that will make a bit of difference.

 

 

 

[ALPJr]

hard To beat the 96 wakes

[BraceMaker]

Back seat comes out. Battery in the back or under the spotter?

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

That boat is fine for your 9yo unless you just want a new boat.

 

But definitely ditch the minicourse and slow down to around 15mph and have him run the full course. He should be using either a wide shaped ski or a 64-65” adult slalom ski

[vtjc]

I used to own a 88 MC ProStar, 98 Moomba Boomerang and 99 MC SportStar which was the same hull as the 95-97 Prostar. I thought they all had great wakes at faster speeds. The tracking wasn’t great(particularly with just a driver in the SportStar), but wakes were great. While I love my current 08 CC 196, I wouldn’t swap a 96 Prostar just for the sub 28 mph wake.

[CBR51]

I agree with sticking with your 96. You won’t do much better than that

[MNshortliner]

The battery is under the spotter and the rear seat is removed, so maybe I will try a little weight up front. My son is skiing on a 62” HO Perdator. Not sure of the year but it is a great first slalom ski. Those first pics are from before I moved the mini course buoys 10’ from the turn buoys. They were about 17’ in.

 

[Clydesdale]

@MNshortliner not to be funny, but maybe better to upgrade the fishing boat to something with a 60 or 70. By the time he outgrows that he’ll definitely be ready for your MC.....

[Windsurfnut]

What line length are you running him at? In the MC picture you have, it looks like he is quite far back right in the ramp.

My boys, at 9-13 skied behind our 88 MC Prostar 190 and now 2002 SN 196 at 26-28mph. Both boats had very similar wakes, with the 196 possibly being slightly rampier then the MC.

Two major milestones improved it greatly:

1. Cutting across on edge

2. Shortening to 22' off and getting away from the ramp.

 

My oldest (13) runs his passes at 28mph 22'off or 30mph 15'off now. My youngest (11) running 28mph 15' of.

[thager]

Might think about a different ski. My ski bud's 12 yr old skier Reed was on an Obrien 59" ski and could only get 2-3 at 17mph . Switched to a 61" TRA and is now consistently running thru 24mph.

[MNshortliner]

He has been running from full legnth to 15 off. I haven’t thought about running him shorter but he is working on one handed turns and getting a little wider than the mini course buoys. I think he will start progressing pretty quick next summer and may be trying a different ski then.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Well, in just 5 minutes i found this...

 

 

150's and 175's last forever the 200/225's historically have the issues.

but even 100hp on that boat would do what you need it to with style

 

 

I concur with @Clydesdale , can stay with a small boat for a bit more

 

Any old givaway stripped out shitliner trihull with 70-80hp and the right prop and a casad pylon, would let him attack the wake early in his skiing years until he has the mass and technique to mash any inboard's wake/hump/ramp whatever and make in inconsequential in a few seasons

 

Like many, my experience was a clapped out '69 nautique club boat that at 13, i would reenter and land out past the whitewater, then change edges. Had no choice but to be stacked before stacked was cool, else instant feedback with a 'feet to face'.

 

[MNshortliner]

I think you guys have convinced me to stick with the old ‘96. We are just out there having fun and attacking buoys

[RAWSki]

Seems like a good plan. Perhaps some weight up front or maybe try a 4-blade prop will help a little. Once your son starts running just a few MPH faster the wake won't be an issue.

 

Think of of the skis and "ski-stuff" you can buy now you saved $20k!

[jjackkrash]

Skiing in rough water, wind, cold, etc., only makes you better, as far as I'm concerned. (disclosure: I'm spoiled rotten and old so I don't practice what I preach now.) I don't see how practicing behind something other than the most perfect wake that exists is any different, even for kids. Practicing behind a sub-optimal wake might even be an advantage come tourney time.

[DW]

@MNshortliner - I would suggest you pull the rest of the back seat and any other removable items out from the transom. You will both like that change. Older PS 190's simply had a thin flat panel back there when the seat back was removed.