Glastron GTD vs GTS?

[mpo]

Hey everyone,

 

I am looking for a new boat but cannot decide which one. As i am living in Denmark its going to be used in the ocean and therefore always in salt water. For this reason we would love to go for an outboard engine as it can easily be trimmed out at the docks. Mainly we are using the boat for skiing and the smallest wake possible is by far one of the most important criteria. As we are on the ocean the conditions are rarely ideal and choppy water happens quickly hence a dedicated ski boat does not fit our needs.

 

I have been looking lately at the Glastron 180 GTS or the 180 GTD. Which seems like they fill all the boxes, except I cannot find any real information about the wake it leaves behind. I am leaning towards the GTD deckboat as it most likely might have a better hull for a small wake.

 

Does anyone have experience with these boats and know if the wake is good for slalom skiing?

 

Feel free to add any additional information or come with other alternatives. Quite a limited amount of used boats are available here for skiing, i have also been taking a look at the outboard MC NXT20 does anyone know how its compares to the glastron or how it is for skiing?

 

Thx for any advice!

 

[BraceMaker]

You'd have to ski them. Generally boat like a glastron is going to have a fairly deep V hull which will make large wakes. This improved general rough water handling which is what a buyer of a boat generally wants.

 

Maybe 1 in 1000 buyers of boats this size cares about small flat wakes.

[skibrain]

@mpo I co-own a 2002 Glastron GX180 with my brother in law and ski it 1/2 dozen days a year for the past 15 yrs when we are up at the family lake cabin. 150 hp 2-stroke carb outboard. The hull on these is very similar to the current GTS. (Otherwise 99% of my skiing is behind a 2004 Malibu LXi)

 

The GTS has a hull with a 20 degree deadrise. The GTD a bit shallower at 18 degrees. Weight of these with motor is around 2000 lb. so a good bit lighter than an onboard ski boat. assuming the weight is similar, the GTD might have slightly less wake, but depends a bit on what you are familiar with and currently skiing behind.

 

I generally free ski behind the GX at 22’ off and while the wake table is pretty hard, its very narrow. I’ll try to find a photo of the wake.

 

Between those two boats, the interior layout and decision on having windshield protection or not may be a bigger factor for you. But if you can demo one and ski, that is going to be most informative.

 

Skiers in this shot are @15’ off line length.

 

 

 

 

[mpo]

Thx both for the responses!

I have been skiing mostly behind a PS190 the past few years but also some behind a carbon pro. Preferring the carbon pro though. (both Club skiing).

 

I have recently moved to Denmark and don't have the option for perfect lake water everyday anymore :(

 

I was out with a friend a few times this year who owns a Glastron GT185 I/O. When making the boat as light as possible the wake was decent as 22 off only occasionally catching air. Putting just one or two persons more in the boat made it scary as hell at 22 and even with no one extra in the boat 15 off and 0 off was no fun.

Was hoping that the outboard would provide me with a much better wake. The NXT20 outboard does also look promising even though I have less data to go with, but at a price almost double the GTS180 it should be considerably better.

 

Last option is of course to go for a dedicated ski boat as 85% of the time it will be used for skiing, I am just not happy leaving it in saltwater for 6 month a year. Additionally I would have to import it as there is like 2 ski boats in Denmark, and almost none used are with saltwater packages ☹

[skibrain]

Every boat is a compromise. If you’ve spent time behind a direct drive, A GTS outboard will be not THAT much better for you than the I/O version. If you are importing a boat anyway and casting a wider net, consider an outboard-powered ski boat hull from the 80’s. MC Prostar 200 outboard is used by some clubs with saltwater. There are a few around still and some maintained beautifully. ZERO deadrise will be rough in waves, but.....

 

Doubt this is still available but here is a thread with an example:

 

https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com//showthread.php?t=77106

 

[Ski_Dad]

I'm not sure which one but also check out Stingray boats - i think they have some with less dead rise. If you want to look at something even better in the outboard world, look at Dyna Ski boats - I'm just not sure if they export but you could get something around 45-50k. I would highly suggest a 150hp motor, if you can't swing that look at the 115 Mercury with the Command Thrust option.

[vtmecheng]

An I/O is definitely heavier than a 2 cycle outboard. I understand the Evinrude eTech is a really nice option for pulling skiers. That weight reduction makes a big difference because it's all at the back of the boat for both the I/O and the outboard. Also, the I/O has more weight with the outdrive. Make sure whatever you get has a stainless steel prop or factor buying one into the total price, aluminum props are junk for hole-shot. Definitely ski whatever you can before buying.

[skibrain]

I totally agree get an outboard. Save 600 lbs.

[Ski_Dad]

The GT180 looks like it skis really nice!

[DangerBoy]

@mpo I have a 2010 Glastron GT 180 which I love and is great for skiing. The hull on that boat is slightly different than the ones you're looking at as up until 2012 or 13 the 180s were 17' 1" long which means they should've been called 170s but for some reason Glastron decided to name them 180s which would imply an 18' boat.

 

My GT 180 has the classic Glastron SSV (super stable Vee) hull with a 20 degree deadrise. Glastron came up with the SSV hull design back in the 1980s and has not strayed away from it because it's a fantastic design and there has been no reason to stray away from it. The SSV is extremely stable, efficient and has a great ride even in very rough water. At the same time, it has a small wake that's soft and has a nice shape that makes it great for slalom skiing.

 

One of the guys I ski with has an 18' Larson OB hull which we used to ski behind every other day and on the days in between we used to ski behind my old boat. Now that I have the Glastron, we only ski behind my boat and never ski behind his Larson because the wake is so much better behind my Glastron. With the Larson, you have to prepare yourself mentally as you approach the wake because you know it's going to jar and rock you and throw you off a little when you cross it. With the Glastron, the wake is so smooth and easy to cross you don't ever think about it as you approach and cross it which allows you to remain 100% focused on setting up for the next turn. Please note that I do strongly recommend trimming the engine up about half way after you've gotten the skier up out of the water to flatten and smooth out the wake to the best it can be.

 

AFAIK, the models you're looking at are slightly longer than mine, actually being closer to 18' than 17'. I don't think you can go wrong with either hull but based on my experience, I would recommend the one with the 20 degree deadrise vs the one with 18 degree just because it will be a smoother riding boat in rough water than the flatter hull but will still give you a great wake for slalom skiing.

 

While I'm here, I will also recommend that you pair the Glastron with an Evinrude ETec outboard if you can. They're fantastic motors and the best outboards made IMO. If you want to read about all the things I love about the ETec, check out this old thread of mine:

 

https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/334418

[BRY]

For a real outboard ski boat (boat designed specifically for skiing) check out Dyna-Ski. Dyna-Ski Boat Blog They say they ship all over the world. Lots of configuration options, no wood in hull or transom. Look real good, I am not affiliated nor own one.

dyna-ski.com/

[Jetsetr]

@skibrain Damn....pulled up 8 skiers with a small (relatively speaking) outboard? AWESOME! Doesn’t even look like that big of a engine. I know most ski shows use outboards, but they’re using 3 @ 750 or 900 horsepower total.

[6balls]

@Jetsetr I had 16 behind my Centurion Falcon Barefoot with a 225 2-stroke. Shoot pulled 6 barefooters (all 200 pounders) to just over 40 mph.

 

@mpo if you want an outboard with a great ski wake, look at the barefoot outboards. Specifically I would look at the Sanger and the Malibu Flightcraft. Sanger wake/tracking is incredible, Malibu Flightcraft has the build quality (no wood). Centurions are cool but getting long in the tooth at this point and wood construction. Shoot even Mastercraft produced an outboard footing boat for a period based on the Prostar--super high quality.

[KRoundy]

@DangerBoy My dad still has his Glastron SSV hull boat that he purchased brand new in 1974. It's on its third motor.

[skibrain]

@Jetsetr it’s a 150hp 2-stroke. 1750 lb weight for boat/motor. We were going to switch to a 19” pitch, left on the 21” pitch prop. This boat will do 58-59 mph with driver only. Impressive for the most ordinary-looking bow rider ever. Obviously no really big people getting pulled up, but 115 - 185 lb skier weight range.

 

Agree with @6balls on barefoot outboards. But low/no deadrise is a compromise for rough/big water.

 

Any Ballers have a report on skiing behind a Dynaski?

 

[6balls]

Sanger has more deadrise, the other barefoot boats pretty flat.

[mpo]

Hey everyone, amazing feedback!

 

After a small discussion with the boss (My wife). A barefoot outboard is definitely out of the picture :( We apparently need more space in the boat. (She had several decent arguments for not picking it and i really only had one which was the wake for skiing :D)

 

After some good feedback on the Glastron its definitely still in the run(@Dangerboy Thx!). She like the layouts of the deck-boats Bayliner E6 and the Glastron 180 GTD. The Bayliner 170 and the Glastron GTS180 still viable options as well.

 

I can see why she likes the E6 for family trips and it looks like it could be decent for water sports or am i going to regret it? I am still going to be skiing behind a prostar in the new club, so its not the end of the world.

 

What is your skiing thoughts related to these 4 boats before i go try them out?

 

Thanks to everyone again for participating in the discussion!

[skibrain]

I can’t speak to wake shape on the Bayliners, but a max 115 hp on 18’ E6 boat seems underpowered for water sports.

[Mick04]

Spend more time skiing at the club on the real ski boat. Re calibrate watersport expectations on whatever outboard you end up with. FWIW, Glastron has a better reputation around here than Bayliner.

[vtmecheng]

I believe deck boats are heavier than runabout designs. That likely equals larger wakes. Something to look into.

[DangerBoy]

I would definitely go with Glastron over Bayliner any day. Glaston hulls are top quality, Bayliner hulls do not have this reputation. In fact, I've heard they're cheaply made.

 

I must confess I know very little about the GTD but I can see why it appeals to your wife from a practicality/family point of view. Lots of seating space in the GTD. What I can see in the specs is that it's got a 6 inch wider beam, a flatter hull (2 inch less deadrise) and weighs approximately 465 lbs more than the GTS. It doesn't have the SSV hull either and you know how highly I recommend that design. Great ride, great ski wake, planes at lower speeds than most other boats, fuel efficient, really stable, handles well and rides the rough stuff really well.

 

With the GTS I know what type of overall and skiing performance you'll get and I know you'd be very pleased with that boat. I know nothing about how the GTD performs and skis so all bets are off there. The only way you're going to know how the two hulls compare is to try them both out and see what you think. It's quite possible the GTD will be great for skiing too, I just don't know.

 

What I will say is that whichever of those 2 hulls you decide to go with, put 150 HP on it (preferably an ETec). I have the ETec 150 HO on my GT 180 and it's perfect for that hull. Great hole shot, power to spare and terrific fuel economy. Either get the ETec 150 or 135 HO as they are both pretty much the same motor. (The 135 HO is rumoured to be 150 hp). Don't get a 4 stroke! They're way bigger, 100+ lbs heavier and have a lot slower hole shot than a 2 stroke. Between those disadvantages and the fact they have over 130 more moving parts than a 2 stroke, a 4 stroke kills every advantage an outboard is supposed to have. And of all the 2 strokes that are available, IMO the ETec is the best in the class. Remakably, the ETecs even have lower emissions than all or most 4 stroke outboards. That is quite an engineering achievement. I LOVE MY ETEC!!*

 

* Note here I'm talking about the basic ETec line. I've heard the ETec G2s are great as well but they're quite expensive.

[mfjaegersr]

“Friends don’t let friends - hell, even enemies - by Bayliner...”

[6balls]

If it's Glastron and Bayliner, we are not talking ski boats. Given your choices based on quality alone...Glastron for sure over Bayliner. As @DangerBoy mentions a high-quality 2-stroke is the way to go on the motor. Light and lots of power.