Connection and Swing

[Hockdog]

Bullet point #5 is the most important.

 

Because chicks dig big spray.

[chris55]

The video and your key points will be very great help !!! Looking forward to the sart of the season march 5 !!!!!!

[Slalom.Steve]

Amazing video! For quick reference, to my rookie eye the time stamps for the cuts that best show what (I think) you're talking about are here, especially the two * ones:

0:07

1:40

3:37

4:02*

6:28*

8:06

[Than_Bogan]

@chris55 I'm a bit curious how you know the exact start date for your season. Vacation to somewhere warmer perhaps?

[chris55]

@Than_Bogan, very simple, the boat goes back to the water Monday 2nd of March and the season start offically March 3...weather permitted of course even we know the water will be 45-48F. And March 5 is my birthday so we have champagne on the dock and then we ski. Lake Geneva is big so no need to turn buoys if the slalom is not installed yet.

I need to stop bcause I am getting really of topic here..... :)

[chris55]

And I forgot we will make very big spray that day .... !!!!!!!

[a_bax]

Thank you so much for this post @AdamCord ! This is something I have noticed in better skiers (than me) but I couldn't put my finger on it.

 

I think with consideration that there are many levels of skiers who this will reach, there are a few areas where it might be helpful to clarify the language and terms. Water skiers throw around a lot of terms and a lot of times the points of reference are assumed to be understood...

 

"stand up out of angle"

1. "stand up" - I agree with @BlueSki 's wife that a reference point for "standing up" would be helpful

2. "out of angle" could be clarified as to which angle (the ski on edge angle?)

 

I did find @Horton 's photos helpful for illustrating the force on the handle (and a strong upper body) being separate from the force on the bottom of the ski. (But noted your comment regarding reference points and direction).

 

Anyway - a million thanks for this!!

 

[AdamCord]

@a_bax

 

"Standing Up" refers to your body relative to the top surface of the ski. That means using your whole body - knees, hips, back, etc. to stand straight up against the ski and get your body in a straight line. When done right it feels a bit like doing a dead lift. You want to look very tall coming through center and off the 2nd wake as opposed to sucking your knees to your chest and dropping down.

 

"Out of Angle" means getting the ski pointed down the lake instead of across the lake. There is an area where you both want and need a lot of angle - from the finish of the turn to the first wake. But if you've done your job and created good speed and angle in that acceleration zone, continuing to hold that angle through and after the wakes does nothing but separate you from the handle and slow your swing around the boat.

 

These two ideas work together because you can stand up OUT of angle - the act of standing up will roll the ski off edge and let the ski yaw down the lake instead of across it. As that happens the pressure under your feet drops, making it easier to stand up. It's two moves that work in tandem.

 

 

 

What this allows you to do is stay in a strong position against the rope long after the ski has been unloaded, and swing or "whip" around the pylon. It should feel something like when the driver whips you out at the end of the lake. When done right it's incredible the amount of space you can make (see Caldwell videos!).

[Skierx]

@AdamCord those picture frames really tell the tale of what's taking place.from the knee down to the ski It is clear the taller elevation and flatterer ski. It would be nice if you could extend those frames especially just past the second white wash. I'm interested to see where the handle goes. I thought I had her heard Caldwell talkin a long time ago about bringing the handle up some yet still staying connected to the body.it's something I've been working on lately that seems to have made a huge difference giving me more space. A friend of mine describes it as a tug ,not sure I would call it that but I definitely raise the handle from down Lowe's two around my belly button which does end up with my arms bent quite a bit. That's the frame I'm looking for. In your videos it looks like it happens momentarily and pretty much every top-level skier. thanks

[Stefan]

Just got notified of this Caldwell youtube clip. Looks like 32-41 off.

[Adam Caldwell]

@Stefan, @Skierx, @a_bax

 

Here is a 35off pass yesterday to highlight this topic further.

 

 

 

Also, three frames show another perspective...

This is from the C-75 Overhead Drone video @ 1:45-1:50s moving from 5 to 6 ball at 35off.

 

You'll see less compression in my knees here then at 39off (set of pictures @AdamCord showed in his last post).

 

In to CL:

 

Out of CL:

 

 

[Skierx]

@adamhcaldwell , there it is. If I pause the video just passed the second white wash, it shows how very connected you still are to the handle in the swing portion of the past and how much the arms have to be bent in order to do that at that point. I do realize the whole pass is about connection in swing. First portion being building angle through the swing & and the second portion taking angle out of the swing. I have become much better at the first portion and in no focusing on the second portion from center out to the ball. The videos are very helpful.thanks

[Adam Caldwell]

@Skierrx

 

If you successfully create the energy in the downswing to CL, and time the release and elevate your COM through CL, THEN the next focus is to keep that handle as close to your body as as humanly possible while you continue to elevate the handle (and your COM) higher off the water in the preturn.

 

From CL out, look to bring the handle progressively from the bellybutton upwards toward the shoulders until you feel that ski starting to go nearly parallel with the course (meaning the ski has 'preturned' underneath you) before you release the outside hand from the handle.

 

This will make sure your body is continuing to actively swing around the pylon while the ski rotates into the turn up course of the buoy.

 

Note: If you don not make an effort to "elevate your COM" through CL, then trying to keep the handle close to your body will take a ton of effort in your arms, and is a huge sign your missing it. Your forearms will burn. Must be rising through CL first and keeping the handle close should be almost "easy" in comparison.

[brettmainer]

I don’t pretend to be as knowledgeable or skilled as the Adams, but in simple terms, “Keep the handle in and the hips up through the center and off of the second wake.” That is all a simpleton like me has time to think of.

[AdamCord]

@brettmainer I think that most of us have the same problem. When @adamhcaldwell and I first really started figuring this stuff out I actually skied worse for a while because I was trying to think about 400 things at once. I think this concept simplifies things greatly, and hopefully it's easier to implement than a lot of the overly complicated coaching that's out there.

 

Now when I ski "stand up through center" is pretty much all I have to think about, the rest is either muscle memory, or I've created so much space before the next buoy that it doesn't matter how bad the rest of my technique is. :#

[Horton]

So @AdamCord & @adamhcaldwell you are saying to ski with straight legs into the first wake. That can not be right.

 

@rico have you ever heard anything so wrong?

[Skierx]

@Horton I think you just earned a ?.

[Horton]

@Skierx or you deserve one...

[Skierx]

@Horton , I couldn't help myself. I did get a rolling panda 1 time.

[Adam Caldwell]

@Horton,

 

Maybe the focus should not be on skiing with 'straight legs' but rather skiing in a way that generates the maximum amount of leverage over the edge of the ski, without necessarily maximizing 'load' against the boat. There is a HUGE difference.

 

The great thing about standing tall, is that biomechanically, it helps our hips to move forward into the so called 'stack' to where our bodies become capable of handling much greater loads AND we also benefit from a greatly improved connection with the handle.

 

Last I checked, If I want to have more leverage over something, I need a bigger lever arm. Bending the knees is a great way to 'shorten' the lever arm, and reduce leverage over the skis edge. So, doing everything I can to maximize the distance between my shoulders and the ski (straight legs helps do this!) will significantly increase my leverage, AND at the same time - my connection.

 

The greatest part? Since I can use 'physics' to improve my mechanical advantage over the ski's edge, ultimately it will take me "less effort" to generate the same amount of energy. OR, if I decide to input MORE effort, then I will yield a greater energy. Ultimately producing greater returns beyond CL.

 

[Stefan]

@horton from earlier in this thread...

 

[Horton]

@AdamCord can you please explain my sense of humor to your life partner Mr. Caldwell? Or should I just award pandas?

[jayski]

In reference to @adamhcaldwell statement of "bio-mechanically, it helps our hips to move forward into the so called 'stack' to where our bodies become capable of handling much greater loads"

 

Let's look at it this way, if anyone has ever done any deadlifts the weight 'feels' the 'easiest' to hold at the top of the movement in comparison to any other part.

 

In the deadlilft if we label the barbell as the 'energy' we are trying to move (or hold/resist from gravity?) and use that term to reference the 'energy' we are resisting between skier and boat then what position is most effective?

 

In addition to the "less effort" aspect, it take less effort to hold that weight at the top, load a barbell hold it 3/4's of the way through the movement, feels much harder to maintain than at the top, hence the feeling of "less effort". One can hold MORE in the top position than anywhere else, so in relation to skiing with the standing tall position one can hold more "load" (My reference to "less effort" here is not to be compared/confused with @adamhcaldwell use of it in his post, I am not commenting on creation of energy)

 

Just a different thought process to relate the theory too...

[Adam Caldwell]

@Horton. I see your sarcasm, then I see confusion.......

[Adam Caldwell]

@Jayski, Great points!! I agree with you.

 

Although something to consider is that this is not directly dead lift.

 

Since this is a leverage position (The body being the lever), standing taller and increasing the lever arm, you can create the same force/torque with less effort. OR, a greater force/torque with the same effort.

 

[Horton]

all the joking aside. The simplest way to be in a biomechanically powerful position and to have your center of mass near center is to be tall relative to the surface of the ski. I like to tell skiers that they should think of themselves as coming to the top of a squat as they approach the first wake. They should be trying to get their chin further from their feet. Because this moves thier center of mass forward and flattens the attitude of the ski on the water the amount of physical effort is far less than if their legs are bent and their pelvis is further back. Additionally the ski is in a much lower state of drag therefore they will carry more speed outbound.

 

@adamhcaldwell up to center line are we aligned? No pun intended

[JAS]

Standing tall with lateral lean is maximizing the effect of gravity to leverage ski and hold on edge. Question: is softening or bending legs to lower COM a component of behind boat uprighting, ski flattening, and introduction of down course yaw?

[Horton]

@JAS I think we're going to start over and describe this concept from scratch. It's not about gravity.

[JAS]

???? Not so sure. Without gravity acting on COM I think skiing would be impossible.

[Adam Caldwell]

Waterskiing in space wouldn’t work?

 

@Horton - spot on.

 

@JAS, this is where things get sticky. Yes softening the knees is one way to get the ski to begin to flatten and come out of the banked hard edge on approach to CL. However, by doing so, It kills the potential energy we want to preserve.... and that is rooted our elevation above the ski. Anything causing our COM to move toward the ski, or closer to the water at CL is a loss of valuable energy we need to preserve until during the reaching phase.

 

Sucking the knees up also disconnects the ski from the upper body, which can lead to direction issues after crossing CL where the ski is taking a significantly different path then the COM, and causing us to 'separate' from the centripetal force of the swing prematurely. Not that it cant be done well with a lot of practice....

 

Slalom is kind of a dual pendulum system... our body acting as the second pendulum that has energy storage capacity. In a sense, of timed right, the taller our COM is at CL and beyond, the wider a point we can swing the ski to at apex, and the more edge pressure we will be able to create as we ride the ski back from apex. - if all goes as planned.

 

This is where the high handle concept thats been mentioned comes into play.

 

Consider the extreme.... imagine if I tied the rope to your knees through CL....how far would your ski be able to swing away from the handle into apex? But what if the rope was further up your body say- toward the shoulders? Can you see the difference there?

 

Now the question is how do you connect the dots between CL and Apex such that you can create the 'optimal path' into apex and finish the turn as tight on the ball as possible? This is where spending some time trying to understanding handle path, trajectory, connection, release etc will pay off.

[JAS]

@adamhcaldwell I rewatched your videos and see how “tall” you stay at all times. Guess the answer to my question is that control of ski path is really the the trigger element in skier uprighting and maintenance of connection?

[Hockdog]

Chicks dig big spray.

[Adam Caldwell]

@JAS

 

Certainly. I think myself or any skier will run into issues if the ski is not building the appropriate amount of angle & speed prior to CL.

 

Other issues can be that when a ski ski does build speed, but holds on to that angle too long after CL (overstable roll/yaw) causing early separation at the CL disrupting the transition into the swing.

 

This tends to be less of an issue at longer lines, but is a major player in short-line dynamics.

 

There are a lot of things taking place that all work together to produce the end result of 'swing'.

[TDL]

Just skied a set with a focus on trying to incorporate these concepts. It worked. Smoother through the wakes. My spray was bigger. I'm on board. Thank you @adamhcaldwell and @AdamCord.

 

The overhead photo of Chris Parrish is a great visual. I had no idea skiing like that was even possible.

 

I am wondering how this all interacts with cross-course angle out of the turn. Last year I had some success purposefully taking less angle. That focus probably helped me stay more connected off the second wake. There were downsides to taking less angle though: often later and narrower at the buoy.

 

Question: Do you think the Connection and Swing method described in this thread allows skiers to bite off more angle out of the turn and still stay connected off the second wake? I'm hoping to scrap the "take less angle" approach.

[AdamCord]

@TDL if you found some improvement in your connection by taking less angle out of the buoy, it’s because your body position through the wakes was making it difficult for you to stay connected. Taking less angle reduced the load, allowing you better connection, but at the expense of speed and angle.

 

We are definitely NOT advocating taking less angle into the 1st wake. By putting yourself into a position that lets you hold the line tension, you can actually take more angle and create more speed, putting you further up course. Yes you can run your early passes taking less angle if you want while skiing like this. But we all want to run shortline, and that just isn’t done without creating angle and speed into the wakes.

 

What surprises most people when they start to get this is that they may take more angle, but it’s typically less taxing and less work. You are in a position that lets you easily hold that angle, and you are not taking slack hits because you are running an earlier line.

 

[ghutch]

@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell please explain this part- "By putting yourself into a position that lets you hold the line tension, you can actually take more angle and create more speed, putting you further up course." How do I get to this position? What am I looking for here? I believe this is where more confusion is how to get to that position to hold that line tension.

[Adam Caldwell]

@ghutch

 

When under load behind the boat, we need to be standing on top of the ski in nearly full extension of the entire body AKA - Standing up. If done properly in conjunction with proper timing with the boat (prior to the slalom course), you will get a much more productive swing and as a result be taller (again, "Standing up") into the buoy.

 

This should allow you to turn on a tighter line, with much less body compression that allows you to easily get back into a nice tall stack (again, Standing up).

 

Just watch videos of Chris Parish. Don't be fooled. He is not relaxed. He is putting TONs of effort into controlling his body position.

[ghutch]

 

And also as the load is coming on after the turn and just prior to hooking back up to the handle.... correct?

[cragginshred]

@adamhcaldwell you stated 'avoid excessive lean you cannot come out of' in one of your points.

At my lake I see the 'lean lock' syndrome where everyone strives to get in the best lean position possible possible and they end up cutting too long.

On the dock the skier perseverates about the next thing they are going to work on to improve their lean position which just leads to the same result -lean locked and a late edge change.

 

What's the key with what your describing?

[jimbrake]

damn @cragginshred - you just taught me a new word. I thought I knew all the words. Now I do.

 

[BigGerald3]

Terry Winter and Marcus Brown sure suck up their knees, please explain.

Honest question, not trying to b a PITA...

[cragginshred]

@jimbrake do you know dysdiadochokensia? No googling,....the 'kenisia' part tells you it's related to movement.

Glad I can be of help :D

[matthewbrown]

@BigGerald3 their intention is not to suck up knees and they have spent years trying to be taller. However, the emphasis is not so much on being super tall with shoulders too far away from the boat rather, the emphasis is to stay on top of the ski instead of shooting it out in front through the edgechange. You cannot maximize handle swing when the ski is too far out in front of you through the transition.

[BigGerald3]

Thanks Matt, that helps, I would like to ski like them?

[Horton]

@matthewbrown I am pretty sure you and I see eye to eye on this subject but am not sure the a lot of Ballers understand. I am always saying "straight legs" because that is the easy way to keep your hips over your feet. If your ankles are driven forward and knees are bent forward that could theoretically be even better provided you can keep the ski under you through the center line and beyond. The problem with this approach is it is almost impossible to execute.

 

Do you concur?

[matthewbrown]

@Horton I believe the higher the hips everywhere, especially in the transition the better.

[Horton]

@matthewbrown OK! Rock On! Straight Legs!

[Slalom.Steve]

Wondering if there's any correlation with these "connected swing" ideals and Zero Off settings? Is there any setting that in theory or in practice better supports this approach? Or would there be a lot of variation in preferred settings even among skiers all striving for this?

[dude]

Ironically SlalomSteve beat me to this post. I have been wanting to ask the Adams this question for a couple weeks. Since spring, I have been trying this technique and I am skiing better than ever- from both a PB and consistency perspective. I use A1 setting but I am starting to think that C3 may be better for this style (i.e earlier, more aggressive hit).

Adam Cord, what setting do you use?

[AdamCord]

@SlalomSteve @dude If the ZO settings always worked as intended and every boat ran the same way with them, then yes C2 or C3 might be ideal. Unfortunately there is so much variation between boat brands, models, years, engine choice, etc. that it's never that straightforward. C2 might feel like B3 on another boat, etc.

 

I typically try and run a C2, as C3 can be a bit too aggressive, but often times depending on the boat and how it feels I will move to either B2-3 or A2-3. I almost never run a 1 number because it's just too slow to come on, and you need to have the boat gassing you on the way into the 1st wake.

 

An interesting side benefit of this technique that I've found is that the better I do it the less I seem to notice the differences in ZO settings, especially at 34mph.