For you Trainer's/Gym Rats

[MichaelGoodman]

There is a lot of talk about having good strength to

weight ratio for skiing. What is considered good?

I.E percentage of body weight for say deadlifts, squats

and bench press. Or maybe how many pullups/dips.

 

[6balls]

For most of my life I could easily bench press 2X-2.5X my weight...helped me zero in skiing other than looking bad-ass in my vest on the dock. Now...not so much! At that time I could do 100 dips, or do sets of 15 with three 45 pound plates chained to my belt.

 

I guess being beefy did allow me to hold onto stuff I never should have which may have made up for some...um...technical issues.

 

All kidding aside my best season was when I went body weight light, rather than trying to get more strength. I would say having a strength to weight ratio is great...but best to acheive it by being light and strong rather than heavy and stronger yet.

 

@RazorRoss3 is a beast on all of the lifts you mention, and a good skier. I don't think he's a good skier, though, because he's a beast.

[2Valve]

In my 20's I was bench pressing 335lbs (weighing 180 lbs.) Always a skinny 6 footer, I wanted a linebacker's body. Found out in racquetball tournament's that the best player's were lean, quick. So I've forgotten about the Muscle Builder's physique and as age has crept in, found Pilates and Circuit training to be invaluable. Oh, and a Keto diet doesn't hurt either. :)

[MichaelGoodman]

@6balls Thanks for the info I know you have spoken before about too much muscle mass

not helping your skiing. That is why I was wondering what is a good balance between weight/strength not that I have any worries about getting to strong just to fat.

 

[RazorRoss3]

In terms of strength to weight ratio, the denominator is far more important than the numerator. If you can maintain your existing strength while reducing/eliminating unathletic weight (the beer belly for example) then you will ski better.

 

I don't know what the math behind it is, but I would be willing to bet that the extra 5lbs of body weight turns into significantly more than 5lbs increased load when you are in your pull, so by dropping those 5 extra lbs around your middle I'd bet you see more improvement there than by trying to squat that extra 50lbs.

[6balls]

I was top heavy, too, which matters. I could much more easily build upper body mass. My legs were strong, but not massive. I think a lower center of gravity, within reason, would be helpful as well...that and knuckle-dragger length arms.

[PacMan]

I have always felt that a strong core is essential to skiing. Not necessarily lifting 2-3x your bodyweight type strong but a strong core should help you maintain your position in those moments that aren't quite perfect form and taking a hit from the boat/load. I think that a good deadlift and squat are much more valuable in that than bench and I feel like I ski "easier" when I am in a good place in those lifts. Also I love planks and feel like they also seem to aid in my feeling like skiing "easier".

 

I think cardio is the great helper though.

 

Just my two cents.

[elr]

Well the 12 male athletes with bios on the USAWS website average 5' 11.25" and 162lbs. (2.28 lbs/inch)

[JackQ]

Most upper body exercises do zero for skiing other than reducing chance of injury. Legs, core and to a lesser degree back strength is all important. Biking, leg presses and squats are in my opinion the most useful for skiing. However, since back surgery 15 years ago, squatting is no longer in my repertoire.

[skiboyny]

I feel like an easier way to look at it is through body fat. If you can get your body fat to around 10% your strength to weight ratio should be very good. Most find that they need to add muscle to achieve a reasonable weight at 10%. That is a good goal though.

[bkreis]

peeps, be strong, agile, light for you..you'll ski better feel better, recover better..

[chrislandy]

@JackQ halfway through reading your post I was going to say "well you've never had a back issue then", then I finished reading it.

 

Having spinal surgery myself 10yrs ago (double microdiscectomy) I would say core and back strength is paramount (if not pretty much the same thing), flexibility is equally important.

 

I was having issues with strength, keeping weight off and flexibly 2 odd years ago (210lb) and got a PT, 2 years later I'm down to 180lb ( I was down to 180 in 6 months), I can leg press at least 400lb (weights and my PT sat on the thing) x10 , bell squat 90lb to 25 max reps, 15 L/pike-pullups, and even touch my toes and raise my hands above my shoulders! (that was a big milestone for me in flexibility!) The TRX is my all time favourite though.

 

 

For me though, weight as a measure has never been on my radar in terms of strength to weight etc... while yes, excess weight is an issue (fat), I think the key to gym work for skiing is to work the opposite muscles that you use whilst skiing. This helps with muscular strength balance. Slalom is always one sided, trick is mainly balance on your front foot etc... so it's important to work the other side

[JackQ]

chrislandy, I really started bike more after back surgery. At 1st I could only go 5-8 min, have to get off the bike walk around, get back on etc. I slowly was able to increase my time/distance, until I can do a 1.5-2 ride.

 

My overall fitness and leg strength improved and my weight slowly decreased. Although age had a factor and loss of some upper body mass, I went from 205ish to 175pds. And majority of my back pain subsided, I was able to ski more passes, etc.

 

Although I have worked very hard to improve my technique, fitness and weight loss is a major ingredient to how I have been able to improve my performance (practice and tournament) during the last 10 years, but at 65 I don't think I have any improvements remaining in the tank, I am just hoping to maintain or slow the rate of decline.

[lpskier]

@JackQ It was a lot easier skiing against you when you were 205. Eat up!

[Chef23]

I think that body weight type exercises like pull-ups are a better example of things that help with water skiing. They are the ultimate strength to weight ratio exercise. Lean is definitely better than bulky. I am not the best example of that but wish I could be.

[Than_Bogan]

Yay to sports that reward scrawniness!!

 

A little more seriously, I think core strength and small-muscle-stabilizer strength are hugely more important than being able to push weight around.

 

That said, I could be a better skier if I had a little more muscle mass. But what little I do have is fairly well placed for this sport.

[Bojan]

Hey guys,

 

I just read this threat and I'm amazed by the injuries and that you guys are tough enough to still get back on the water. In my opinion, the right structured training is the key to successful painfree skiing.

 

You need to look at it as a pyramid. The bottom is big and is about structured strength with a lot of mobility and stability in mind (which trains the small muscles) which we neglect while skiing. A level higher comes the raw strength we all know from the old fashion training style which is build in the off-season (if a waterskier knows what that is...haha!). A level higher comes the quick coordination and balance drills which work hard on the brain/body communication.

Next on top is the absolute power and responsiveness (speed). Since as a waterskier we don't have to run 100m in less then 10 sec we don't need to be so crazy about it, but it's still necessary for our muscles to be quick and react quick on certain circumstances.

 

Endurance (bike/row/run) are really good for cardio vascular training and burning some calories on the side. But we need to keep in mind that those can make us slow if done too long too much! It's about what your goal is. If your goal is skiing shorter down the line, endurance is only a side gig for training.

 

Getting to the weight/strength ratio, you of all skiers should know that a 160lbs kid with no strength skis as good as a 6'4" 230 lbs "Tower". It's about how you use your body.

 

Same in jump for example.

 

If you guys want to know more about all those things, feel free to message me anytime. I also just launched a new Youtube/Instagram Series for exercise explanation and why/how we do them for waterskiing and why they are crucial for the survival on the water. It's free of course. Check it out!

 

 

 

 

[chrislandy]

@Bojan I think you are wrong about speed and responsiveness not being relevant in our sport, in slalom you load the line up to 250kg using your whole body 6 times (7 if you include getting back through the end gates) in 16s then stop for 40s-1min then repeat.

 

Some of the top slalom skiers load up to 280-300kg, there's one video of Freddie Winter finally letting go at over 500kg

[Bojan]

@chrislandy

 

The loading up the rope part is a different type of strength which is quick coordination and absolute strength. Freddy Winter or John Travers are not fast runners, neither are they jumping really high or broad jump. But what they can do have great brain/body understanding of keeping tension on the line and with coordination loading it up accordingly any given moment. Think about holding a rowing position with 100kg at all times and then somebody throwing 300kg on top of it. This ability of resistance of still holding on is what you need to train in the end.

It has nothing to do with creating speed yourself.

 

All this is not meant negative. A Usain Bolt is the fastest man in the world but I don’t think he could hold on to a 300kg pull. Which he doesn’t have to. It’s all about the reason why and what you want to achieve.

[T_C]

Going back to the original question, % of body fat is the single most important aspect for skiing. If you weigh 200 lds and are at 25% body fat and can get down to 12% body fat you just lost lost 24 lbs of fat with no loss of muscle. 24 lbs is like carrying 2 bowling balls with you while skiing. Drop two bowling balls and you will ski better. Unfortunately you can't loss 12 % body fat by working out alone. "You can't work out a bad diet". Nutrition is the only way to do it. If you can lose the FAT and keep the muscle your power to weight ratio just increased by over 12% (some else can do the math). When you get down to 12 % body fat then you can work on speed quickness and agility.

[Bojan]

@T_C

 

You are right. Nutrition needs to support the lifestyle you want to create. I wrote a blog about it a year ago or so.

 

https://www.radixfit.com/blog/being-a-healthy-individual-isnt-a-gym-exercise-nor-a-diet

 

When it comes to Bodyfat you are right. The lower the bodyfat the less you need to carry around and still keep the strength. Actually you will gain in strength since the weight to strength ratio changes to the positive.

 

Normally a proper strength training should and will take care of weight lose and bodyfat lose.

[6balls]

@T_C body fat cannot be your only metric. I was once five feet eleven inches tall (ok still am) and weighed 220 lbs at under 10% fat. In the perfect pass days I had to have the driver put in 280 lbs or we were not going to get accurate times. I put up reasonable scores but the driver was not my biggest fan...two hands on the wheel my friend especially on two and four.

In my best season my guess is at 185 lbs my body fat may have been slightly higher, but I still had the requisite strength, better technique, and a lot less mass to carry around. ZO took massive strength out of the equation and makes it a liability for those using it without the best technique.

@Bojan has some fitness strength cred, and could probably help a lot of us, particularly as we all age. Our sport is pretty rough on the body.

[T_C]

@6balls I'm not saying body fat is the only metric. I'm just saying you can't get the power to weight ratio you need with 25% body fat. You can't build enough muscle to overcome the extra weight especially as a water skier.