Prostar V-Drive

[Dacon62]

Another post asked about how the 20’ MC NXT was for skiing and this thought came to me as it likely has with other slalom mainly families.

That since it’s introduction most years of the 20’ Malibu VTX has been know to be the king of slalom cross-over boats. I had one and it was about as good as it gets for a V-drive.

I would love to see MC do a V-drive version of the Prostar. I think that would be the best V-drive slalom boat ever produced. What do you think?

[Horton]

@Dacon62 The ProStar is optimized to be a small wake boat. what would you gain by putting the engine in the back?

[Dacon62]

@Horton

Don’t get me wrong I love my Prostar. Having owned many 20’ DD’s and a 20’ V-drive my wife’s and friends favorite boat was the V-drive.

They always say how much they miss the VTX. The V-drive seating possibilities make for a much more social boat when skiing is not the primary or only use.

This is a target market that Malibu has gone after with the VTX and I think MC could trump them if they put the Prostar hull under their 20’ NXT. And face it if the wife is more excited about a V-drive the chance of getting a boat is much higher.

The wake would never be as good as the DD Prostar but if it would be close they may sell a lot of boats?!

[andjules]

what would you gain by putting the engine in the back?

High WAF (wife approval factor)

[oldjeep]

There can be only one :) I suspect it wouldn't sell well enough to be worthwhile. You would have to really outperform malibu to get people to buy the new guy in the segment.

[75Tique]

Sort of like the Nautique 200 sport? That had enough of a market to last 5 or 6 years. What do you gain? The v-drive interior configuration and some cross-over performance. What do you lose? A tournament quality wake. I've never been behind one, but I know people who have them and love them and say the wake is great....considering its a v-drive. Also, they arent 38 off competition skiers. But still, the right boat for some people.

[oldjeep]

You gain a boat that is comfortable and good for more than running back at forth for 10 minutes at a time. They are geared more towards people who will and can ski open water, not ditch skiers. Hopefully the dd segment can survive the current downturn, the volumes may not support it.

[Broussard]

Ever heard of the ProStar 214V? If there was significant interest for a v-drive ski boat I promise MasterCraft would design one. Between the R&D cost to design the boat and cost to make the molds, you have to have a good bit of interest to make it a profitable venture.

[BraceMaker]

@Broussard I think if you asked anyone here if they would buy a ski boat that performed like their DD and had an open interior lay out they would buy it.

 

The 214V is a horrible ski boat I don't think dropping a V-Drive layout into a new prostar will ski like the prostar.

 

 

[LoopSki]

214V has a weird layout . If your gonna get a drive your going to want the wrap around seating

[swc5150]

Prostar 205V was an MC attempt as well.

[Broussard]

@BraceMaker Yes, but expecting a v-drive ski boat with an open interior layout to perform like a direct drive is wishful thinning...

[WoodySkier]

I sold my 2010 VTX and bought a 2015 SN200. I love the 200, and put more hours on it as I ski a course on the lake I live on. My wife however still hasn’t forgiven me, she loved the VTX, but she’s not a skier. It was good for open water skiing, but was ok in the course, It didn’t track well in the course.

[UWSkier]

Never tried one but imagine the VTX with the removable center pylon tracks just fine in the course. Off the pylon right over the transmission, you can move the rear end of a V around quite a bit if you're aggressive.

 

I love my direct drive Response, but my Dad's Malibu V drive is far and away a better family boat that still skis remarkably well at 32MPH and above.

[DaveD]

If you just want to make the wife happy, why don't you buy a pontoon boat and keep the ski boat you like?

[MISkier]

@swc5150, the 205v claim to fame was that it created the wake boat segment and launched the X-Star series. So, as you already know, that tells you how good of a slalom boat it was.

[BraceMaker]

Must be said the 205DD had already gotten worse before the 205V.

[GregHind]

There is a lot of room in the market for a v drive prostar that actually skies great. When I say great I don’t mean skiable at 34mph with a short rope - that is crap. I mean that my 12 year old daughter could learn the course safely and enjoyably because the wash was really good, my wife who skis at 26mph loves the wake and the layout is so family friendly plus it is way better for barefooting. A big ask but please no more of those crossover things that promise to be great for skiing but are honestly terrible.

[Horton]

@GregHind

[UWSkier]

@GregHind at some point, physics simply take over and the transom starts to sit lower and make a larger wake. That point is right around 30MPH. Even the best V drives ever made for skiing suck below 30.

[oldjeep]

Just need more bow weight

[Horton]

[oldjeep]

Would have been stupid until tournament boats started weighing as much as my v drive. :p

[GregHind]

I’m familiar with the physics but believe it might be possible. For example the stejcraft pro skier outboard has as good and usually significantly better wake than the new prostar at every speed I mentioned until at least the first couple of shortenings, from 26mph to 36mph. Tracking, speed control, driving isn’t but the wake is the best.

 

This is done with a 220kg outboard hanging BEHIND the transom. Sure v drives are heavier but the physics of engine weight location helps. I’m not sure if shaft angle makes it better or worse though.

 

The Petrol tank is in the nose and that helps a lot. Also the transom angle has the motor tucked under to push the nose down

 

Getting the centre of gravity right is vital. Is it possible? I think so. Is it viable price wise? I’m not sure. Tournament ski boats aren’t selling but there are lots of people that would love a top quality built boat that is really good for recreational skiing. I think it would be much better to compromise on spray and really shortline wakes than you compromise on kid and wife speeds. If you can add ballast to make it surfable then home run.

 

How can you recover the Center of gravity? The TXI has the fuel tank in the back. 100+kg. How far forward could that weight go? Could the battery be moved forwards or replaced with lithium?

 

Does anybody else want one of these?

[ALPJr]

No

[LoopSki]

Not really, I think a tower would make my prostar more versatile than the drive config. It would be interesting tho

[swc5150]

FWIW, my wife once thought she'd like a Sport Nautique 200V for many of the reasons stated. After testing one, the interior was too cramped, trying to pack wrap around seating in a 20' boat (3 event hull), and she hated the giant engine cover you need to climb over to reach the platform. Plus once you put in the pylon, you're no further ahead over a reg 200 for passenger space. I get the theory behind it, but there's a reason they don't sell well in the wild.

[UWSkier]

Use case is important. For using your boat for things other than a slalom tractor, the V is WAY more versatile for sure. V is better at literally everything watersports families do with their boats except slalom skiing (99.5% of inboard owners will never trick or jump).

[jpattigr]

To build a great 20' V drive boat with skiing potential a few things need to change. Reduce weight of engine, a Turbo 4 Alu. block engine vs a big V8 may help it ski well. Add weight back in with ballast for other sports. Change to Kevlar or carbon from glass to reduce hull weight. For $200k, I am sure it could be done, but not sure the market still exists!

[UWSkier]

I'm anxious to hear ski reports from the new Malibu VTX. They did a ground-up redesign this year and heavily heavily focused on slalom performance. The vid they did with Regina went into a lot of detail on this.

[75Tique]

But then sometimes, slalom performance aside, a v-drive inboard is just too cool not to want, especially one from "the good old days"

 

[Dsully]

MasterCraft did have Tournament Approved V-drive in the early 2010's.

The 214V. The Hull was based on the 197.

http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/TournKit/AWSA/Chief%20Driver/AWSATowboatUseAndDocumentationReport.pdf

 

[GregHind]

@Dsully yes but they are very different to ski behind compared to a new prostar.

[Horton]

@GregHind The weight distribution of a boat is more critical at slower speeds than higher speeds. MasterCraft could certainly build a rear engine v drive version of the ProStar and it would be a fine boat but it would not have the same performance characteristics or ski ability as the direct drive mid engine ProStar. At some point you simply cannot have your cake and eat it too.

[skimtb]

Opinion:

At the time, wasn’t the 214V one of the “better”, maybe “best” options for a “v drive slalom boat”?

 

I’m not looking, but not many used ones for sale I’ve seen. So either folks love them and won’t sell or there were not too many ordered / produced. You also don’t see A LOT of serious skiers talking up their VTX.

 

The market has spoken....

 

Would a current gen Prostar V drive be the best “v drove slalom boat yet”? Better than the VTX? (never skied one, I just read the internet)

Possibly / probably?

 

Even if so, it likely wouldn’t sell enough to justify the project at MC....

[Obrienslalom]

For me, I ski early in the morning and maybe late evening. The rest of the day I use the boat to be out on the water with family/friends.

 

Really have simple requirements for a direct drive to meet this need:

-Open bow

-Full bench style seat in the back for my wife to suntan on

-somewhere to stow skis, and lifejackets/bags for all passengers

 

The engine in the middle really isn't a problem for us. I'm more in favor of a crossover direct drive.

[75Tique]

Or.....build your own. Like this guy did.

 

[Jetsetr]

There’s a lot of ways to make a VDrive boat better...aluminum engine, fuel/battery forward, etc etc.

 

The problem HERE is most/all the folks on this site are hardcore skiers and they’re not even remotely interested in a mult-purpose boat. But if you look at the overall watersport demographic they are also the smallest group out of all of them.

 

So, the members here are going to be highly biased against ANYTHING other than DD boats with zero off and the other goodies that the majority of recreational users really couldn’t give the south side of a northbound rat about...

 

I would be willing to bet 200 pontoon boats are sold for every new DD ski boat.

 

Horton needs to do a pontoon boat shoot out! 250hp outboard, best wake, best tracking, biggest grill and slide.

This HAS to be “single panda” worthy...

[Horton]

@Jetsetr the reason for the success of this forum is the narrow focus on competitive skiing. If you want to talk about flat bottom boats, pontoon boats, barefoot boats, wake boats, fishing boats.... you are in the wrong forum.

[Horton]

@Jetsetr

 

 

[cletuspapa]

I don't know folks - my DD X-14 has plenty of room for sunbathing, throws a decent enough wake for me and is a crap ton easier to maintain than a V-Drive boat... but that's just me!

[ReallyGottaSki]

Boat Talk, akin to Church Chat

[ThomasAlive]

 

Go on...

[Jetsetr]

@Horton I TOTALLY agree with your assessment that this forum is biased towards a very narrow demographic of slalom skiers. THUS anything OTHER than a DD boat gets whizzed on. And that’s ok, but sometimes it comes across as rather snobbish when anyone mentions/questions something about something OTHER than a newer DD ski boat. Outboard Hydrodyne, V Drive, DD boat older than 20 years, something “other” than the big 3, they’re ALL great in their own way, and they bring people into waterskiing. That was the objective I thought?

 

Did you really think I was even remotely serious about skiing behind a pontoon boat? I hope not...I was trying to inject a touch of humor. This is supposed to be fun, we should be trying to bring new people into the sport.

And, we are in the “boat talk” section of the forum, not the “competitive waterskiing” section.

[Horton]

@Jetsetr

 

If you go into a Chevy forum and start talking about Ford you are going to get the same response.

 

This forum has a very narrow focus by design. It is successful partly because I work to keep it narrow focused. As the site has gotten bigger it is less narrow and that is something I struggle with.

 

A pontoon slalom tournament would be fun. I get it.

 

[Justin]

Just going back to the start of this thread, after owing many DD, we decided to go to the Nautique Sport 200V last summer when the family got bigger and a need came up for more storage and seating. Plus the ability to do more than just skiing, as we surf, wakeboard, and all the rest.

I searched for months until one became available, they don't stay on the market long, there is a demand as we have had standing offers on ours, but guessing not enough demand to continue production.

There are pros and cons to every purchase, just make sure it checks enough boxes for your family. I will never go back to a DD, I course ski into 32' off, 3 kids are all learning slalom 24 -30 mph.

Is the slalom wake great at slower speeds? NOPE. But its good enough, and more than acceptable to learn on.

At 34 + its comparable to any DD I've skied behind, just more spray.

I grew up learning the course behind a 75' Ski Nautique, so I've got some big wake experience!

Judging by the amount of ''V drive Crossover'' threads I've read on this site over the years there just might be some demand for these types of boats?

 

I'd be happy to share any honest, non biased insights if anyone is thinking of making the change.

 

[cougfan]

My first boat was a 1977 16 1/2’ Apollo with a 115 Mercury outboard. Skied great. Back in the day my wife would drive and I would ski and then we would switch. This boat was fine til we started getting serious about skiing and started to have kids.

Bought a 1989 Prostar and enjoyed the heck out of it til more kids came along and we needed more room.

Bought a 2000 Super Air Nautique V-drive. Lots of room and the kids were into wake boarding and surfing (sorry @Horton) at that time. The wake for skiing really sucked!

Finally came to my senses and bought a 2002 Sunsetter LXI 5 years ago and love this boat. The open bow gives the boat plenty of room and the wake is great for skiing. Put the wedge down and the wake is acceptable for wake boarding which the kids will do on occasion when we are on our week long trip to Lake Entiat. Otherwise all the kids have come back around to where they started and are skiing again!

My son bought his first boat last fall a 2005 Centurion T-5 Comp and loves it. With the open bow he has plenty of room for his wife and 2 girls.

Unlike @Justin I will NEVER go back to a V-drive. So much easier to work on and maintain the engine of a DD and the ski wake can’t be beat.

I guess it’s all in what you want/prefer and I like to ski!?

[Wayne]

It would be interesting to know the sales numbers for the Malibu TXI and VTX. While there is a niche sport that drives the continued production of competitive ski boats, when will manufacturers say “you know what, we aren’t making money these so we’re done. If you want to ski here is a v-drive”.

[UWSkier]

@Wayne I think the VTX is popular in the Midwest. Dealer here in AZ says they hardly sell any of them, but they sell even fewer TXis. I wouldn't be surprised if you're right and the valuable build slots being sucked up by DDs eventually get yanked and those models go away.

[braindamage]

We have a Malibu dealer in our town. When I bought my first dd In ‘11 they were everywhere, probably >75% of the non-fishing, non-pontoon boats on my lake. Now the dd make up for probably <20%. All replaced by v-drives.

 

However, every skier I know has a dd.