2021 Denali C75 (new flex) - unboxing

[Horton]

[The_MS]

Now you can use all the pitch and yaw lingo you want

[BlueSki]

I’m pretty sure they want you to run 39 and they built you the ski that will get you through it, the rest is up to you.

[Rich]

This ski is awesome, I will tell you most balanced ski I have ever used.

 

 

[Stevie Boy]

Designed for 34mph, has anybody skied @32mph on one ?

[Adam Caldwell]

Flex can make or break a ski for a skier - much like a fin setting. Its been a long time goal of ours to figure out how to better match ski flex for all ranges of skill. This can be seen in lots of other sports but has been hard to nail down in water skiing.

 

Conceptually, were finding people fall into these categories...

 

Never run 32.

Never run 38.

39 and beyond.

 

The masses fall under the first category. A large group of hardcore skiers falls in the second.

 

The demands on both the ski and the skier, and the way in which we experience acceleration / deceleration are vastly different accross the board. Managing the shape of the ski under load such that it keeps moveing & turning properly at all phases in the course is the challenge.

 

We are not necessarily building a "stiff" layup and a "soft" layup, but rather configuring the layup to make a stiff ski feel soft and a soft ski feel stiff. :)

 

SCIENCE.

[HSL]

@adamcaldwell For those who are riding c-75’s without the re-configured layups, how would you describe the now “old flex” for each size of ski (S,M,L). Better yet, what are the flex numbers for each size of ski compared to the new flex numbers that will be available for each size.

[Adam Caldwell]

The baseline "Never run 32" pattern is closer to the Original c-75 pattern, but with a couple subtle tweaks. The bigger changes are on the next two flex patterns.

[C5Quest]

So if you’re knocking on the 32 door then do you buy the “never run 38” flex?

[Adam Caldwell]

@C5Quest - I would definitely recommend that!.

 

Flex is a unique property in a ski. At super shortlines, we need the ski to stay down and locked into the turn for quite a long time. Additionally, the turn needs to start earlier - even while the ski is still under pressure- and also the turn must last longer moving through the back of the ball to allow the boat time to clear and keep the line tight.

 

Everyone has seen high level short-line skiers take slack and or wheelie at the finish of a turn. To me, this situation is undesirable, as you cannot keep the timing with the boat consistent all the way down the lake. In my mind, the root cause comes from a ski that is rotating too fast, or trying to come back inside the ball line too early relative to where the skiers position is on the boat. A lot of this can be tuned with the fin& boots, however, the skis FLEX pattern also has a massive impact on this as well. I would say its possible that the impact is even significantly more then the fin settings.

 

I'm not a huge fan of using analogies with skiing, but without giving up too much of what we are doing with flex consider fishing for a moment. Think of what a fly-fisherman would look like trying to cast with a traditional fishing rod? Obviously a laughable situation. Its nothing to do with the skill of the angler, but more the stiffness and the overall flex progression of the rod hes using. Put the fly rod in the hands of a newer angler and he will struggle to cast the line successfully if at all. This isn't much different then slalom.

 

Comparing skiers at 15- 28off with skiers beyond 35off, there are certainly different dynamics in terms of things like; speed, accel&deceleration, centripetal force, swing height on the boat, time in the turn, bank angle, yaw & pitch rotation rates etc. Our aim at Denali is to provide a ski, and a fin setup that will provide the greatest amount of potential for a skier looking to improve their game for the level they are at.

 

Proof of this concept was obvious over the winter. Skies that made super short-line feel easy for me were nearly unrideable for even experienced skiers maxing out at 22/28/32 off - they couldn't even run a pass in several cases. And the skis that the longer line guys LOVE, I have really struggled to find "magic" with at the short-line passes.

[C5Quest]

@adamhcaldwell I’m considering a ski change at some point. Maybe end of season. At 5’7” 170-175 lbs would I go to a medium? Getting more -28s now and a few at -32 with hopes of improving greatly (34 mph skier). Ski about 120-140 sets a season on water temps of low 50s to low 90s by mid summer at our small pond in CT. Seems a small would be better suited for 36 mph? Suggestions?

[mwfillmore]

Can’t wait to see Horton’s review... I love mine! If I let the ski do it’s job... it’s soooo easy

[Stevie Boy]

@Horton how about a small teaser, just to moisten our appetite a little more.

[pcmcon729]

@Horton , Any initial thoughts after your first rides on it that you can share? I ordered mine Monday.

 

[Alberto Soares]

@C5Quest - I am 5´9, 160lbs, deep 38/34mph, tried the C75 medium, too big for me, my friend is skiing with it at his best right now, he is 200lbs and 6´2, mid 38/34mph.

[C5Quest]

@albertosoares Too big in what way? You would go for a small?

[Than_Bogan]

@Alberto Soares Small for sure with those stats and skill level. Out of curiosity, was there a reason you tried the M? Just a "my friend had it" kinda thing?

[Alberto Soares]

@C5Quest - Yes I will get a small as soon as my club reopens

 

@Than_Bogan - I am between sizes at Denali´s size table so decided with Cord to go with the medium

[sunnydaysmn]

I noticed the rocker is more flat then other skis? Maybe it is just in the shovel part of the ski?

[Wish]

Continuous rocker. No flat spot like other skis. Very deceiving to the eye. I believe from tip to tail it’s about the same amount of rocker in total. Don’t quote me but I believe that’s what I heard.

[Zman]

@adamhcaldwell "In my mind, the root cause comes from a ski that is rotating too fast, or trying to come back inside the ball line too early relative to where the skiers position is on the boat. A lot of this can be tuned with the fin& boots...".

What would you say are tuning changes that might help this?

What skier faults do you see most often that cause coming back inside too early?

Thanks.

[Skoot1123]

I know I can’t wait to get my Denali. I feel like a kid in a candy store with no limit on how much I can take!

[MattP]

Got mine over the weekend hopefully get to ride it this week!..

[Ali]

I just unboxed for my wife's C75 which arrived just too late for last weekend's skiing. Long weekend coming up for her to hopefully get used to it.

 

Cheers

Ali

[rfa]

@Ali ...and if she doesn't...I'm happy to try (haha). Hope you guys are well!

[Ali]

@rfa :-) I am sure you will. You liked the one you tried last year. I'll let you know if it doesn't work out.

[HSL]

What is the story on the new 2021 c75 set up guide posted on the Denali website. Do these numbers represent your most recent suggestions on all c75s or do they relate solely to 2021 skis with the new flex layup? They are quite a bit different from anything I’ve seen published previously.

[Adam Caldwell]

@MattP - Long hours burning the candle at both ends for YEARS sometimes gets old and I start to question if what I've subjected myself to is worth it to continue doing..... But when @AdamCord Cord sends me stuff like this first thing in the morning it makes every second worth it!

 

Thanks so much for believing in what we have set out to do!

 

I believe Matt skis at 36mph, not 34??

 

 

 

[MattP]

@adamhcaldwell Yes 36 man speed! Thank you for all your hard work on this project. It will be exciting to see what this ski can do!

[Than_Bogan]

@HSL I don't actually know the answer to your specific question, but I do know that there are numbers all over the freakin' place that ALL WORK on this ski. I'm not saying you can set it randomly, but there are all sorts of "zones" where the various parameters complement each other and the ski performs great.

[HSL]

@Than_Bogan, maybe @adamcord or @adamcaldwell can let us know what the new settings represent. I agree with your point about the broad range of settings that seem to work well. But the new numbers are not within the already broad ranges that have been posted. And the new numbers for F boot setting @ 28.25 caught my attention as a rather significant change from what has been posted in the past. So I'm hoping that one of the overworked, underappreciated and exceedingly talented (and overly generous with their time) Adams' can enlighten us on these newly posted settings.

[Than_Bogan]

I can state from experience that Cord/Caldwell fins settings don't have range limitations.

[jimski]

So what stiffness of flex is better for shorter lines. Stiffer or softer.

Radar came out with a ski in 2015 that was a softer flex and I could never get it to work. I seem to like a stiffer ski.

Is then Denali really better than any thing else out there on the market. The hype is defiantly there and the skiers who ride it seems to be having good luck with it. @adamhcaldwell in general what level of skier are you marketing with your skis to.Obviously it’s built for the slalom course and the 34 mph skier.

Who I would say are the majority with money to spend ?

In particular what line lengths are these designed to work best at.

[AdamCord]

@jimski The 2021 version of the ski hasn't "officially" been announced yet, but we will actually have 3 different flex patterns for different performance levels. This will be launching in the coming weeks.

 

The skis are not "softer" or "stiffer" for different performance levels like you might expect, but different flex PATTERNS based on what a longer line skier vs. a shorter line skier needs. We're calling this the Bending Moment Profile, and this is a visual representation of what that means:

 

 

Ski flex is extremely complicated and describing a ski as soft or stiff doesn't begin to cover the importance of how the flex profile effects the ski's performance. We spent the winter building ~50 skis of varying flex patterns to try and really understand this. We also developed a new method of flexing our skis that gives us more detail and a better understanding of what the ski is really doing on the water. I'm not willing to give much detail about any of this because we think we've really tapped into something that no one else has. I will say that we aren't surprised at how well people are skiing on these new C75s. It's been really fun over the past couple weeks to get these into the hands of customers!

 

[jimski]

If Horton runs -39 I’ll buy one

[BlueSki]

Horton has probably been quiet about it because he is working on turning 2 @ 41.

[ghutch]

About time for a review Horton. Lets have it.....

[BraceMaker]

@AdamCord are those representations of how the ski flexes when exposed to the loads presented by a skier of the anticipated level of are those the flexes at the same load numbers?

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

@BraceMaker If I actually knew the answer to your question, I couldn't comment. But since I don't, I can speculate: None of the above. "Bending moment" seems purposely a little under-specific, but I'm pretty sure the graphs are of that bending moment at a given location on the ski, as opposed to a picture of what the flexed ski looks like.

[AdamCord]

@BraceMaker good question B)

[Skoot1123]

@BraceMaker @Than_Bogan @AdamCord Perhaps the amount of force required to bend the ski in a certain area and a corresponding shape (as a resultant of input/force from the skier).

[Wish]

....or just science.

[bsmith]

As @Than_Bogan mentions, I too think the bending moment reference is intentionally meant to be a little under specific. For those familiar with a bending moment curve, the colored areas are actually an inversion of what a real bending moment curve looks like.

 

Since the ski shape stays the same in all three examples, my take on this is that each model is designed for a different maximum bending moment. Obviously, the highest level skiers submit their skis to much greater bending moments than regular skiers do. As such, they need a ski that can take those great loads without over bending.

 

But as @AdamCord points out, it is not as simple as beam design in structural engineering where you are just interested in having the smallest beam possible that can survive the expected loads without excessive deflection or exceeding the yield strength of the materials.

 

I have no doubt that the Insanity model will be felt as generally "stiffer" than the Standard model by all skiers. But I also believe @AdamCord in that the increased stiffness of the various models is added in a much more complex way so as to benefit advanced skiing technique and not just to merely survive increased loads.

[o2bnMaine]

.... or just magic and lasers (better than science). Everything is better with magic and lasers.

[Stevie Boy]

@AdamCord

Hi Adam, would you be able to tell me, if a Medium Tfactor Front Binding, would make the necessary placement, leaving some adjustment, on a medium ski.

Thank you in advance.

[aupatking]

Ran my first -32 ever on the 3rd set on my 2020 C75 this morning. I think I’ll stick with the “old flex” for just a little while longer. This ski is for real

[Skoot1123]

Any updates on how this ski is working @Horton?

Too busy skiing and breaking PB’s to write?

We Ballers expect nothing less

[AdamCord]

@Horton time to quit tricking and start this review already! We’re pretty damn excited about this thing...

 

This is a small c75-Insanity at 41off 36mph

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDZuBaUhMiE/?igshid=157b5dj6d1vqw

[Milford]

I have been riding a large C-75 for year and have absolutely love it. My scores instantly improved by about 6 buoys from what I was consistently running on my old ski, which was awesome. I have been stuck at 2 buoys at -39 for quite sometime, but do occasionally get out the 3 ball in practice on the Denali. The guys at Denali have been great about sharing fin set ups and binding placement and have asked for video to confirm suggestions.

I am 195 lbs and am right between the medium and large recommendation, so when I got the chance to try a Medium Insanity Flex C-75, of course I was willing to give it a go. Well, yesterday, I just ran back to back -39’s and am still riding the high. The ski just keeps moving and made the -39 feel easy. I had to ask my driver to confirm the rope was at -39. The ski feels exactly the same as my large, but is turning much better than my large, which is making -39 possible. I feel like I just bought another 6 buoys!

 

[Than_Bogan]

@Milford Incredible advancement from a change of ski!!

 

At the risk of being a stalker, your profile shows a PB of 4 @ -41. Is that one of those "long time ago before a huge injury" kinda things?