Is The Ski Nautique An Epic Fail

[Horton]

Strip away brand preference and politics and all that. When I go to a tournament I do not care how much the boat costs or how much SeaDeck the boat has or the design aesthetic. I care how I am going to ski behind it. I am a MasterCraft guy but if I go to a tournament and get a 6.0L 200 I have no excuses.

 

For shortline tournament skiers who do not have the new boat to practice behind the pull is foreign. The pull feels nothing like a Malibu, ProStar, 200 or 196. I am not even saying the pull is bad. I am saying it is very different from what most skiers practice behind.

 

The same thing happened when the 6.2 first came out in the 200. That first year I got that boat a few times in tournaments and was shocked by the feel. My scores behind that boat were down 3 to 4 balls. The next year the ZO map or the prop or something was different and the boat felt great. ( A little birdie told me off the record that the ZO map is the difference)

 

If the new boat felt like a 6.0L 200 (or a Malibu or ProStar or even a 196) from the skier end of a slalom rope I would have nothing bad to say about it. Since I trick a little I would want one. It is clearly the best trick boat on the market. As it is, when I see it pulling my event at a tournament I consider skipping my ride. I think skiers who are lighter on the line feel less of a difference but for a skier like myself who turns and burns when the rope gets short that boats just crushes me as soon as I make a small mistake.

 

I hear the 6.0L version of the boat feels a lot better. Unfortunately, I have only ever seen the 6.2L at tournaments because all promo boats are 6.2L as are all the boats that pull international events. ( The only person I know in California who purchased one of these boats new from a dealer did so because his kid skis internationally and needs to practice behind it).

 

I did ski behind a 6.2L Ski at Nationals in Kansas and it felt amazing. Mind blown how friendly that one specific boat was on that day and how unfriendly the pull has been every other time I have skied behind that boat. Maybe the prop was different on that Nationals boat? I did not put up a huge score that day but it was not the boats fault.

 

[Horton]

@jjackkrash if you are not a lawyer or politician you should be.

[east tx skier]

I should add that I'm sure all of these new boats do everything they are supposed to do with great precision---finely tuned instruments. But my 22 year old boat isn't an excuse for me or anyone else I ski with for subpar performance. And while the new ones have some cool aspects from a technology standpoint, they just don't give me the fizzy fealing (to borrow a Top Gear phrase). And that's a good thing since I can't afford them anyway.

 

Kind of like how I saw a Ferrari 457 the other day. It was beautiful. I know how fast it is. But I didn't give it a second glance like I would have had it been a 308 GTB because I know for a fact the thing doesn't have 3 pedals and I don't care that I can't shift as fast as a computer.

 

/old man ranting

//get off my lawn

///Pinenforina

[jcamp]

All I know is that the people who run Nautique are, and always have been, really smart business men and women.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Huh. If they act like they're doing a customer a favor building one, how is that going to play out when something proprietary breaks in a 5-10 years, or sooner. My life experience suggests not well.

[unksskis]

MC has the same production "issue" regarding production line. They listened to the customer feedback on their boat and improved it. After walking through the new Prostar at both Regionals and Nationals, the word that comes to mind is user friendliness/use-ability. Everything seems so user friendly, easy to understand. I'm still trying to fully figure out my trick settings on the SN, because as Horton pointed out, I only get it twice a year at the big tournaments, and usually train behind a 200.

[darinmontgomery]

I’m a Nautique guy, skied behind one for 40 yrs and have owned 196, several 200’s and fortunate to own the new Ski Nautique. I’m also lucky enough to get to ski behind Malibu and MasterCraft, all are great boats on the skier end. Both Malibu and MC did a great job addressing wake issues for slalom so I have no issue skiing behind any of them.

 

IMHO, the best slalom boat to ski behind with a driver that could drive it was the Centurion Carbon Pro.

 

No boat will ever please everyone and people will always have a preference for their own reasons, that’s what keeps everyone in busn and pushing the limits. That said, Nautique is the only 3 event boat that is made for all 3 events and should be recognized as such. The other two can pull slalom and jump but are not designed for tricks.

 

As has been stated here already, the Ski Nautique is far from an epic fail. Nautique designed the only true 3 event boat, created the best slalom wake, and power to pull the current jump record. They incorporated carbon fiber in the haul design to save weight and went in a completely new direction with the overall shape and design. They innovate and forever changed the 3 event ski boat while keep the highest quality in the busn. I’m not knocking the other manufacturers but they are not made anywhere near as well as a Nautique, that’s a fact.

 

I agree the cost of 3 event boats is crazy high and doesn’t help our sport. That said, all of the Ski Nautiques made are sold so they obviously know what they are doing.

 

I’ll continue buying Nautiques and those of you who own MC or Malibu will most likely continue buying them as well, that’s great for everyone and vital for our sport.

 

[jpwhit]

@darinmontgomery I have to disagree on the build quality between Nautique and MC. And this is coming from someone that is historically a "Nautique Guy" I've owned two different different years of 200s. There are plenty of little details on the 200 at least, this isn't any better and arguably worse than the latest Mastercrafts. Here are a couple of examples that I bet many 200 owners will recognize. The rubber gaskets on the side trunks never stay glued in place and come loose after a couple of years. The gasket on the engine box clam shell does the same thing. I haven't had any of these minor annoyances on the Mastercraft I have now. My view currently, is that Nautique and Mastercraft build quality is at least equal at the moment and if tilted one way I would say it's slightly towards Mastercraft.

 

I do think your point about it's the only current boat that really addresses all 3-event equally well is a valid point.

[Stevie Boy]

I have always been a Nautique fan, how ever, the build quality of the Mastercraft and the fact that they responded and improved their Boat, based on user feedback, is a Big tick in the box for me, not sure about the USA but in Europe the Mastercraft warranty does not compare with the one Nautique give, this is a big factor when Ski Schools/Clubs make decisions about replacing their boats and people who do want change use that argument a lot.

[NameUnavailable]

I don't think it's a fail. MC could dominate the market if they can produce the boats quickly. At that price point compared to CC I bet a number of us switch. If you have to wait a year like a friend of mine was told for a promo then the MC will be a fail too.

[DavidN]

Maybe for 2021 they should start covering the outside of the hull with foam pads as well. :D

 

 

[LoopSki]

Looks like Centurion took the angles to another level !

 

 

[DavidN]

@LoopSki You know who owns Centurion now, right? ;)

If it sells, you can probably expect to see design elements from it throughout the next Nautique lineup.

But let’s not take on Wakeboats in this thread. They are all ugly.

[MISkier]

@NameUnavailable, I would think you would have to wait a year for a 2021 promo, as the promo drivers have to use them for the season before they can be made available for purchase. If you want a non-promo new MasterCraft, I believe you can get one much faster than that. I already know of one delivered to a non-promo owner in Michigan.

[rockdog]

I’ve come around a LITTLE bit to the external design of the SN, but the Seadek is an almighty cockup in terms of design. To think some folks don’t even want to maintain an old teak platform because it’s too much effort, this will prove to be a nightmare. The best looking and easiest thing to maintain is gel coat, the hardest will be this abortion of a product. Who’s the idiot that thought this would be a great ‘feature’ and who’s the dumbass that approved it for mass production.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Horton what did @jjackkrash do to piss you off? That's a heck of an insult!

 

With regards to your performance behind different boats, you have to keep in mind that you also have different ropes, different driver and different lake. Any one of these can easily create a different feel more than a 6.0 vs a 6.2l. But I suspect the real difference is in the ZO programming for each boat/engine, but getting accurate info on that front is near impossible.

[Not_The_Pug]

Sea Deck is a great product. As a Promo person, I no longer do I have to worry about scratches from people stepping on the boat with shoes or sand on their feet. It is much easier to clean. I would rather have that on the boat then not. I still like carpet in a boat for the sound dampening. But Sea Deck is much easier to keep clean.

 

I just get the Sea Deck wet, then spray with Simple Green and brush dirty area's with a soft brush and rinse. The whole boat is dry in an hour.

[MDB1056]

@east tx skier IMHO got it 100% right. So blessed to have grown up in the era I have.

[ALPJr]

Good to see hear that you’re around @east tx skier . Nice SN for sure, and I still remember that very nice, suped-up PS205 you used to run around in.

[mcskier41]

@Jmoski, responding to your post. Nautique has cut the supply of promo boats in our state. Had our tournament yesterday with only the Mastercraft and Malibu. Had over 40 skiers and some PB's set. Plenty of people here in the market for boats too. Funny thing is: our entire ski club is made up of nautique owners. All skied yesterday and were VERY impressed with the other two; size of wake and driveability of the boats, and better price. After being snubbed by nautique, ALL of us are considering Mastercraft and Malibu. So IMHO, epic fail by nautique with their promo program. We have tremendous support from Mastercraft and Malibu in our area and are in the process of scheduling a demo day for the 2021 Prostar.

[A_B]

Obviously they didn’t ask for skier input.

The old hard rubber platforms needed SeaDek which was a great upgrade. Someone in design just took it too far.

 

The hull is butt ugly too. When you get in a boat and you have to move weight bags around for the wake that should be a clue there is a better design somewhere.

 

I’ve owned SN’s since 1978. Yes a freaking long time. I stopped upgrading with the 2007 we have today. It does everything I need it to do and nobody has a problem skiing well behind it and we don’t have weight bags situated all over the place.

 

I grew up skiing 36 mph behind a 1977 SN.

ANYTHING today has better wakes than that.

It did teach you to stay on edge through both wakes. Maybe that was a rite of passage missed today?

[Nando]

IMO, the Ski Nautique is a great boat that has a few faults:

 

Too much Seadek and the associated expected replacement cost and bother- plus it looks like too much.

The Hydrogate is too complicated. Long-term functionality of it is also a concern.

It seems like the majority of the market, including me, does not care for its looks. I think in some color combinations it looks great, but it's an odd mess of angles.

It's about 30% more expensive than its competitors. It definitely drives easier, tracks better, and has a wake that's equal to the competition, but...

I've been a loyal Nautique owner for over 30 years, but if I were looking for a new boat, I'd start with MC now; used, probably a 200 or Prostar. BOS is a big enough focus group to indicate that even if it's not an epic fail (and I don't think it is), it has issues...

 

[swc5150]

I've owned a handful of SN's and really liked every one of them. My personal feeling is they've moved on from the core buyer, with high price and high tech, leaving us with the 200 for "standard" option, and the SN as the pinnacle of 3 event. If that was the goal, it seems the mission was half accomplished.

[Slalom.Steve]

I seem to be in the minority, but I think the exterior is cool as hell.

[thager]

.Yuck!

[UWSkier]

I posted an excellent graphic WRT the exterior but it was removed for being too awesome. lol

[hammerski]

Love my new sn! The more you drive it the better it gets. At the tourneys up in the pnw, 80% posted better scores behind it with quite a few area records broken. 32,35,38 wakes are pretty hard to beat. Nice job mc on the new boat too! Looking forward to skiing behind it ?

 

[RAWSki]

@hammerski that is a really nice looking boat. I agree with @Nando that there are some color combinations that make the SN look really sharp but those combos and angles of view are in the minority. Perhaps the design appeals to a more modern or younger generation..... Of which most Ballers are Not!??

 

I would never turn down a pull behind a SN and I don't mind getting one at a torunament.

I do not prefer the 6.2L --- but it is what it is. Lack of promo units, the new 200 and high list price are not helping Epic fail not at all..... Homerun probably not.

[hammerski]

One zero off item that might be of interest. I normally ski b2. I was skiing with Michael McCormick, he suggested with the 6.2 I outta try a2. Skeptical, I thought what the heck. Much better pull imho, a microsecond softer out of the turn, same nice zing from whitewater to center. I’m sold, at least this last month anyways ???

[jimbrake]

@hammerski - you've always had good color combos on your Nautiques, Jim. I guess I'm just a blue guy.

[ajgear]

 

If my crew is any indicator, there are actually a fair number of folks out there that love the aesthetics of the new hull. I'm sold...well, the boat is actually sold...to me. So, I guess that makes my opinion pretty clear :) From a wake perspective, all of my buddies (and I) agree that it's different, but great. They're skiing anywhere from 15' to 35' off @ 32 or 34 mph. So it's a pretty diverse range. That said, we also ski a lot behind a 2019 MC ProStar and an '02 Response, and neither wake is anything to sneeze at. I strongly considered the 2021 PS, but in the end, the styling, interior f&f, and the cockpit (good Lord, do I love the Nautique cockpit) won me over. I'm a Malibu guy, so it was tough to swallow going to either MC or CC, but I couldn't warm up to the TXi from outside, inside, or behind the boat. Love or hate the SeaDeck, but it sure is comfy to walk/sit/lean on, and I had zero issues with it in my 2018 VTX. It also keeps ski fins, dip$hits with gravel on their feet, and other wayward objects off the gel coat. That might just save a life ;). It also keeps kids and adults with slippery feet from needing to chose one specific entry point when picking up at various docks and boats. Argue the look (I get, and even agree with that), but it's hard to argue the functionality. Longevity of the SeaDeck? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. The cost? It ended up about $15k more than the MC comparably equipped with trailer. HOWEVER, the Nautique dealer was $5k better on their trade offer, and, in the end, was able to "broker" my private sale at $10k more than the trade offer, giving me the full tax benefit of a trade. So in the end, I was basically $5k more out the door. Granted that's a dealer thing and not a manufacturer thing, but last I checked, not too many of us are picking our boats up factory direct, so dealers have a huge impact on the buying decision from both a price and service perspective.

 

Lots of worry in this thread about microtuner/hydrogate systems' durability. They're actually pretty simple systems with uncomplicated actuators and simple metal plates. It's not some alien technology. VASTLY simpler than any surf system that's out there. You can't buy a new boat from the big 3 without a touchscreen, so I don't understand the trepidation there either. Technology advances and some people will always fear it. Remember when cars started getting anti-lock brake systems? Any new technology caries risk, and if you like your old drum brakes, go nuts. But I'll take ABS any day.

 

In the end, I respect everyone's opinions, because they're just that -- opinions. But I think there's some level of sour grapes mixed in too. I like skiing behind my buddy's '02 Response, my other buddy's '91 Skier, and my other buddy's '19 ProStar. All are a helluvalot more fun to ski behind than to watch from shore, complaining about what they look like or what the flooring is. They all made their purchasing decisions based on their priorities, preferences, and means. I did the same, and I'm happier than a puppy in a tennis ball factory. Feel free to hate my boat or call it ugly. It will fall on deaf ears :).

[KRoundy]

@ajgear Nice boat!!!

[tjs1295]

@ajgear Very nice boat indeed!!. I like the other blue one above as well. Great explanation about the cost. Just goes to show that I should talk to the dealers before doing anything. Simply looking at listed MSRP it seems like a no brainer... ProStar for sure. But, that obviously doesn't tell the whole story.

[RAWSki]

@ajgear congrats! That is a nice looking boat and I like the contrast with the teak colored sea-deck. Great story about your dealership working with you on trade-sell to make it all work well.

Enjoy and send us some pics when it's in the water.

---------------------

Remember when the Carbon Pro came out with SeaDeck just on the floor and everyone thought it looked cheap!?! :/ Maybe they should have put it everywhere and charged more.

[DW]

@ajgear - nice vessel and glad you are happy. As a former Malibu guy, what did you not like about the wake behind the TXI and also you note the '02 Response is nothing to sneeze at. Any comment on comparison between it and it's newer brother (TXI)?

And to focus on this thread title, difference between the SN and TXI wake since that is one that has not had a comparison in this SN thread.

[tjs1295]

@ajgear Are you really in Wausau? I live just south of Merrill.

[jipster43]

I tied my PB the first time I skied behind hammerski ‘s Nautique. That first wake crossing to one ball sure felt foreign, but it was a super fun round!

As for looks... it reminds me of a 70’s tri-hull - which makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside.

[ajgear]

@DW it wasn’t so much that the wake behind the TXi was bad, as much as it just didn’t feel like a stronger pull or a step forward from older Malibus. I’m no great talent, and perhaps it was more wholistic than specific, but I felt that the ProStar I ski behind regularly was more friendly all-around. When in the boat, the TXi sounded rougher and just didn’t feel as solid. With respect to the ‘02 Malibu, the ‘02 was quieter and smoother. Wake wise, can’t say the 02 is ‘better’ than the 2020, but it’s not worse. Seemed very similar. Hard to say with out having them side by side, but I didn’t feel any significant improvement.

 

The Ski Nautique wake is wider, but it’s also softer and easier to attack on-edge. If you catch it with a flat ski it will still launch you, but that’s not different than any other wake. I’m not close enough to the boat to get the full effect of the microtuners, but it did feel softer (but not mooshy) on-edge, though you can’t get lazy and think that it's not there. The TXi was more traditional, with everything you’ve experienced behind older ski boats. It was pretty flat, and quite skiable. It just seemed to require more attention than the MC or the SN. I had to think about the TXi wake as I was cutting, and I think that naturally causes some restraint. The SN in some aspects punishes restraint. Not that the SN is “harsh” if you’re not full tilt, it’s just soooooo much better when you are that it feels relatively harsh when you’re being lazy. If you’ve made a couple good cuts and feel like, “wow, that wake is barely there”, and then get lazy with the next cut, you’ll get a swift reminder that there is, in fact, still a wake there.

 

Not sure if that answers your questions, but trying to describe one’s perception of a wake is really quite difficult. The quantitative aspects are hard to measure, and the perceptual measures are hard to describe. And one last caveat: I rode the TXi and the SN in very different conditions (TXi was open water with a light wind, no course, and a sales guy driving, SN was on a private lake with only a course, dead calm, and with a pro driver) and a week apart. It’s so hard to make a detailed comparison with that much gap in time and with the change of conditions. I would love to get the SN, PS, and the TXi on the same lake on the same day and ride behind all. We’ve got the 2019 PS and the 2002 Response, so we might get a chance to at least do that comparison. Again, I’ll gladly take a pull behind pretty much and DD ski boat. I don’t profess to be the arbiter of wake quality, and everyone has their own preferences, so take this all with whatever size grain of salt you feel is appropriate.

[ajgear]

@tjs1295 Yup. Lake Wausau.

[tjs1295]

@ajgear Very cool. That's the second Lake Wausau mention in the last few weeks on this site. I keep my boat in Eagle River. If you're ever up there I can give you a pull on some open water. No course, but it's still a good time.

[ajgear]

@tjs1295, likewise if you're looking for a pull on Lake Wausau.

[Jody_Seal]

Mobile tournament this last weekend we had a 2020 SN, it pulled some of the best tournament scores in tricks and slalom.

I would say just about anyone could drive deep shoreline with this particular boat.

Thanks again Doug Hamric for supporting and providing a superb driving boat.

 

Malibu Provided a txi that was a exceptionaly good driving boat. I heard it was a Mal Open boat .Thanks Malibu and Dennis and Joy for bringing a showcase example of the current TXI.

 

We also had a very fine example of a 2019 Mastercraft that a private owner supplied.

We needed to keep the usage time down but it pulled rd 3 slalom . Have driven this boat in the past and it is a very good boat both to drive and ski behind. Thanks Ken..

 

So Epic fail? Nope! Just different!

Ear plugs please!

[Ed_Johnson]

Skied behind a new 2020 SN this weekend and it was terrible !!

 

First of all I have been a Nautique Guy for years. I own a SN200 6.0L and Love it. My Ski Partner had a 2017 200 5.7 and just bought a new 2020 200 6L that they delivered Sat. Three of us were there to ski behind it. Short story, it had issues so he called the local dealer and they said they would come pick it up and bring a 2020 6.2L SN to use while his boat was in the shop.

 

We were excited to try it since only one of us has skied the new SN. Their driver picked up the 200 and left us the SN with no instructions how to set up ZO, Micro Tuners, and found out the hard way, Ballast. Thought that was just for trick.

 

Got ZO set up and I was the first to ski. Started at my usual opener of 28 off and it was set up at A2 34 MPH. I normally use C2+ in the 200, but heard that may be too much so decided to work my way up. Came around the turn lining up with the course and the boat was leaning sideways to the left. Wake felt terrible so we put the observer in the very center next to the Driver. That leveled out the boat more, but the wake centerline felt hard as a rock going through it. Made 6 passes working my way up to C2+ but the wake at centerline was "REALLY HARD" and would totally throw you off.

 

Bottom line was, it was the worst set of my life. Even ended up pulling a Chest Muscle so no more skiing for a while. Plus the Ballast thing was a nightmare.

 

Question ??? Would setting the Micro -Tuners to say 38 soften the wake more, even at skiing 28 off.

 

 

[MISkier]

Micro-tuners = kluge for bad hull design.

[skierjp]

@Ed_Johnson evidently the boat was not set up and it sounds like no one on your crew had any idea about the Ski Nautique. The Micro Tuners are either up or down, there is no in between. The boat is smarter then us, the micro tuners automatically deploy according to your set speed and the line length that you have entered in the Panoray Screen. There is a very good chance that the boat had water in the ballast tanks. Also most of the boats need the Hydro Gate fine tuned. If the boat was not in Slalom Mode the Hydro Gate could have been in any position from 1 to 10! Also, did you map the course? Any ski boat is weight sensitive to crew weight. My experience is the Ski Nautique is the least sensitive of the group but possible the most critical.

[Horton]

@skierjp

least sensitive of the group but possible the most critical.

I'm contemplating if this is Panda worthy or not

[bigtex2011]

bombs away on the panda

[Ed_Johnson]

@skierjp ...... I agree that the SN was NOT properly set up. It was just dropped in the water and left for us to figure out. Yes, we did Map the course and Yes, it was in Slalom mode, and Yes we set up the Micro-Tuners for the line length. However, no one had any idea that ballast was used in Slalom mode. I was the Guinea Pig to be the first to ski behind it. It was a BIG surprise to see the boat TILT to one side as much as it did. It was a LOT. We had to put the observer right behind the pylon to level it. Also, when skiing in the wake right behind the boat it felt hard and like you were running over gravel, not water.

 

After what I went through, they got on the phone with a Friend of ours that drove Nate a lot behind the new SN. I had to leave, but they were working on the ballast system and how to set that up for Slalom, to balance out an observer. Someone mentioned the term, the boat was riding on the Chine.

 

Hopefully they have it figured out by now and I get a chance to ski behind it again. I would still like to know that if you set in 38 or 39 off, if the tuners would change the wake for 28 and 32 off to eliminate the huge center bump I experienced since the tuners would be fully extended.

 

 

[skierjp]

Then you don’t understand what I’m actually saying!

[UWSkier]

The fact it can't simply be dropped in and skied without you needing to be a programmer is definitely an epic fail.