Senior Judge Requirements

[oneski]

Ok, I'll start off by stating this is not intended as a rant or a criticism of any individual or group, but merely a desire to create dialog among fellow Ballers as well as Senior (and PanAm) rated officials regarding the current AWSA requirements for a Senior Rated (Slalom) Judge.

 

To add some context and background, I am a Regular rated slalom judge that has been working to upgrade to Senior for about 4 years. I was not able to ski or judge any tournaments last year due to neck surgery, but between this year and the previous years I have judged in over 24 tournaments (7 of which were E or L, and 2 of which were a Regionals and Nationals); I have also been a Chief Judge 9 times, Assistant Chief Scorer 2 times, and scored an additional 6 tournaments. Even with the tournament work I've done I still have not met all the requirements to test to upgrade to Senior Judge.

 

'm not necessarily complaining about my not being able to test up to Senior, since I believe the standard should be the highest in our sport given the level of skiing that allows someone the capability of participating in a World Record Event. However, I find it very surprising that it is possible to become a Senior Judge without ever previously serving as a judge in any tournament, and it is also possible to become a Senior Slalom Judge without once having served as a boat judge.

 

If you happen to be a really, really good skier (with an elite-Open or MM/MW rating) then you can fastback to getting a Senior Judge rating with absolutely zero past judging experience. Yes, I know that many will state that an Open rated skier has skied in enough tournaments to have a good understanding of the rules, which may be true. But they can also fall well short of the knowledge and application of the rules needed in an E,L,R tournament.

 

I also found it surprising that there is no requirement for upgrading to Senior Judge that a person ever serve as a boat judge, which most tournament skiers recognize as one of the most demanding positions as a tournament official. Not only does the boat judge have to count buoys, but is also in charge of the boat crew; And making sure the rope length and boat speed are correct for each pass; Communicating efficiently with the skier, scorer, and driver; As well as understanding and communicating mandatory and optional re-ride situations with the skier. It involves high concentration, multitasking, detailed knowledge of the rules, and good communication skills. (If you ever want to know who is a good boat judge just ask any Scorer or Driver).

 

I'm surprised that it isn't necessary or required for a Senior Judge to serve as a Boat Judge or, for that matter, if they are a good enough skier, to have previously served in any judging capacity.

[JackQ]

I would be surprised if any regular judges that are aspiring Senior Judges have not been a boat judge numerous times. I would estimate that I served as a boat judge 50+ times before I was a Senior Judge.

[oneski]

I would agree that it’s unlikely. I only mention that there is no requirement, and that it’s possible.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Based on your list of requirements already met, it seems you only need the written and practical test to become a senior judge. Do you think you are missing other requirements?

 

Yes, the fast-track is not perfect, but it gives the high level skiers incentive to judge without the hassle of getting signed off as dock starting, etc. They will gain experience as they go.

 

And I have also seen senior judges with many years of experience make flat out wrong decisions.

 

The system is far from ideal, but if you have specific suggestions to make improvements, let's hear them.

[oneski]

Bruce, I don’t have specific recommendations on how to improve the process. Honestly, I’ve just focused on understanding the rules and working in various capacities at tournaments. It wasn’t until recently that I looked more closely at the requirements for advancement and fastrack program.

 

In order for me to be able to test to upgrade I need one additional Regional/National judging credit, or a “large record tournament with 50+ skiers”.

[RichardDoane]

The hardest requirement to fulfill is usually the judging at Regionals and or Nationals.

[brettmainer]

@oneski, my understanding of the reasoning behind the criteria you are griping about is that it was relatively easy to put together a Record tournament’s worth of senior officials until it came time to pull the older men’s and women’s divisions. Who judges the senior judges when they ski, the vast majority of whom aren’t setting any records but certainly deserve the right to ski that day?

 

“Wait, there are a dozen Open skiers here at the record tournament that is basically being held for them. Let’s make them senior judges too so we can finish the tournament.” I am unaware of any major mistakes made as a result of this and think it is often necessary as long as 5 senior judges are required to judge a record slalom ride.

[skierjp]

At any Regionals or Nationals they are always looking for volunteers to judge or score. Actually, driving tricks is usually offered if you are a driver looking to upgrade but you need to know someone and have a excellent record.

 

[Broussard]

@oneski I definitely agree that the fast-track program is not ideal. It can be pretty obvious when they get in the boat to BJ. Being able to effectively communicate on the radio is vital and serving as a scorer is a great way to understand the importance of communication from the boat.

[disland]

we need to be making it easier not harder, or stop requiring L scores for the kids to qualify for tournaments like the Jr US Open etc.

[oneski]

I think it may be worth considering incorporating into the requirements to upgrade an apprentice and performance evaluation. Right now there is no formalized training for a judge. There are only boxes that need to be checked off. (i.e. Tournaments worked, Serving as Chief Judge, Scorer, etc...) Once you have checked off all the boxes you take the practical and written test before becoming a Senior Judge. (And that only applies if you're not an Elite rated skier). I think it would be helpful for someone seeking to upgrade their status to serve as an "apprentice" at one or more L tournament(s) under the supervision of either the CJ or another Senior official where they can learn "best practices". (i.e. Managing responsibilities of being a boat judge, understanding re-ride situations, properly communicating unusual situations such as a zero gate call, etc...).

 

I also think that with the "apprenticeship" the Senior official in charge should provide a verbal and written evaluation of the judge. (Put them in as Boat Judge and evaluate their performance in changing out ropes/handles, calling in times and scores, communicating with skier, driver, and scorer). Right now there is no evaluation process. I've been to many tournaments (L included) where the boat judge didn't properly perform a basic responsibility. (Usually incorrect boat speed or line length). A boat judge that can't manage those responsibilities really shouldn't be able to upgrade to Senior.

 

I think there should be more emphasis placed on learning and demonstrating competence on the duties required as a judge. Right now it's about the quantity (number) of tournaments worked in various capacities, and I think it should be more about learning and applying the rules in a consistent way.

 

Just my two cents....

[The_MS]

They make you judge at reg and nats so that they have people to judge. I have seen judges at both events work harder then the appointed CJ who gets hotel and food all week

[skierjp]

@The_MS yes, but he would get the credit he needs. And yes I agree, sometimes the volunteers work harder.

[skierjp]

@oneski Assistant not Apprentice but it should be run like a apprenticeship

[JackQ]

Broussard, Really? “ Judges that have fast-tracked,It can be pretty obvious when they get in the boat to BJ“. I find that more than unreasonable and uninformed. I was able to accelerate my Senior Judge, now that I have more time to help at tournaments, by being a Level 9 skier. You don’t get to be a MM/Open skier without significant time in the skiing, being in the boat and at tournaments. There may be a few outliers. I would postulate that the probability of a Level 8 or 9 skier making a bad call is less than for the average judge, even if they can’t communicate and only can hold up their fingers to indicate the number of buoys scored.

[Broussard]

@JackQ I'm not sure where your uninformed comment comes from. I would consider myself pretty well versed in the operation of tournaments. I routinely work with individuals that have been selected to officiate at pro tournaments (Masters, Malibu Open, Moomba) and Elite tournaments (Worlds, PanAms, etc.). I also train with many skiers who have either fast tracked to senior judge or are eligible to fast track.

 

I agree that some judges that have fast tracked to senior are great, others are not. I am not saying that the fast track system is terrible and that it should be abandoned, just pointing out that it has flaws. As @oneski mentioned, there is more to being a boat judge than simply counting buoys...

[RichardDoane]

@Broussard it's not a perfect world, and AWSA has a procedure for upgrade that isn't perfect as well, but has been working and could be improved. Write up a rule change (improvement) and get your area rep. to get it to the rules committee. An emphasis on Boat Judging could easily be added to the list of requirements in order to upgrade from Regular to Senior Judge. And yes, mistakes do happen in the boat sometimes, but remember that we're all volunteers and it's supposed to be fun

[oneski]

Richard, I agree with you wholeheartedly that we are all volunteers do this for fun.....I’m not sure if changes would happen through the Rules committee or through the Judges and Scorers Committee. I would believe that the requirements for advancement would go through the Judges/Scorers Committee, but I could be wrong.

 

One change that I would suggest is the requirement to allow a “large Record tournament (50+ skiers)” to serve in place of a Regionals/Nationals be reworded to allow either a certain number of E,L,R tournaments and/or a World Record Capable tournament. The 50 skier requirement should be eliminated......I judged at a recent Lymanland Record tournament in which Regina could have set a new Woman’s Slalom World Record. The skiers along with the officials and technical requirements were at the highest level that exists in our sport. However, since the tournament didn’t meet the “50 skier” threshold I was not able to use it for my last judging credit to upgrade to Senior.

[RichardDoane]

I agree that the magic number of "50" should be replaced by the term "significant number of skiers". . That way the committee could be a little more flexible in their allowance for other ways to fulfill the requirements. It's as much work to host an event for 25 skiers as a larger group. The big picture needs to be considered when making decisions, and we should change/improve policies to better our organization to help "grow the sport". I'll be with some members of the committee this weekend and will "poke the bear" so to say.

[Broussard]

@RichardDoane I agree that the system is not perfect, but neither is life. I think that adding BJ requirements ads another complexity to the tracking system (which is already done manually) and I don't see it as a major issue as far as regular judges upgrading to senior. I find it hard to work a minimum of 15 tournaments and never once end up in the boat. I was pointing out flaws with the fast-track to senior system.

 

I tend to lean towards having Open skiers fast track to regular instead of senior, but I'm not convinced that is the best way to go about things.

 

In my opinion this should be solved by having better clinics. I think that ideally clinics should be more practical and hands on, but this idea does present a myriad of logistical issues. I would ideally love to have extremely experienced judges and scorers put on clinics where there are actually skiers on the water and a scorer on the dock at a computer. You throw clinic attendees in the boat with an experienced boat judge and place them in situations where things go wrong: jump driver enters the wrong boat path, pull a slalom skier at the wrong rope length, jump switch does not engage/is broken, etc. this is then a teaching lesson for clinic attendees on what to do as a judge. This would be great for everyone but especially younger inexperienced judges (something I wish I had) but logistically it isn't very feasible so I digress.

[oneski]

Broussard, I absolutely agree with you that more practical (hands on) experience at clinics would be a positive step.

 

However, I still believe the requirements for advancement could be improved. Here’s an illustration: 3 people are looking to upgrade to Senior Judge.

 

The first person is a recently Open Rated skier that has never judged or scored a tournament.

 

The second person has worked at 15 tournaments, 12 of which were class C, and 2 Regionals and 1 Nationals. He (or she) served as CJ at 3 tournaments and scored 5 times.

 

The third person worked at 25 tournaments, 18 of which were Class C, 1 Nationals, 1 Regionals, and 5 additional E/L/R tournaments. He (or She) served as CJ at 9 tournaments and Scored at 8 tournaments.

 

The last person (which is me) is not eligible to test up to Senior. I think requirements for advancement should put more weight on practical judging experience and adequately displaying knowledge of the Rules rather than just being an excellent skier or checking off a box.

[Broussard]

@oneski While I agree with you, I personally think that the requirement to officiate at 3 regionals and or nationals is wise in that there are typically highly experienced officials that you will be working with at these events and proper procedures are typically followed more than they would be at your local Class C or even Class L tournaments.

[disland]

Idea: Once per year each Region is allowed to have an "advancement rated" tournament. This tournament must be a record capable event and the chief judge must have an instructor rating (not sure how you get to be one of those people but thats a separate question). This tournament can be a substitute for the regional nations requirement. It actually might be better because there is more time for evaluation and instruction then you will ever get a reg/nat event.

[oneski]

Broussard, I agree that the requirement to judge at 3 Regional/National tournaments is important, and I’m not suggesting that the requirement necessarily be “relaxed”. I’m just pointing out that additional alternative ways should be considered in order to gain the experience needed to be tested up to a competent Senior Judge. I have been unable to attend Regionals and Nationals for the past two years (through no fault of my own.) My only options now are to wait another year for Regionals or to travel 1,000+ miles round trip to find a “Record tournament that has 50+ skiers”. To me it seems a bit silly given the work I’ve done to date.

 

I’ll also point out that there are only 4 Senior Judges in my home State (Georgia), and two of them have not judged in a tournament for at least a year (probably longer). There are only two ski sites in Georgia that have hosted tournaments this year. My home site has hosted 5 tournaments, 3 of which I was CJ. All were class C, because of the difficulty in getting the Senior officials. If you look back at the weekday tournaments we hosted they were all titled “Slalom and Officials Development”. One of the goals is to grow the sport by getting more people involved as officials.

[klindy]

@oneski the process can be frustrating sometimes for sure. I sent you a PM.

[LeonL]

50+ skiers is ridiculous due to the fact that the judge (that being @oneski in this scenario) certainly isn't going to judge all 50. To get credit for judging you need not work as a judge but for a much smaller number.

[oneski]

LeonL, I don’t disagree with you. I hate making assumptions, but my belief on the interpretation of that requirement is that a record tournament with 50+ skiers provides an overall experience for the judge that is closer to a Regionals/Nationals and avoids what could be perceived as “home cooking” in a small backyard tournament. My only problem with the requirements for advancement as written is that it excludes taking into consideration the entire body of work an Official performs. Some leeway and latitude should be considered if an Official has far exceeded the majority of the requirements if missing only one item. I also think participating in an E/L/R tournament in which a World Record could legitimately be set should easily be considered as an equivalent large Record tournament (without the 50+ skier requirement). I would have received the one remaining credit I needed if the Lymanland tournament had a few more skiers in it. The fact that it included several Open Men/Women skiers (including Regina who could have set a World Record) was not considered relevant.

[Kelvin]

How many tournaments outside of regionals and nationals actually have 50 skiers? Most of the tournaments around here cap the entries well below that number.

[JackQ]

I believe the “intent” of the Regionals/Nationals requirement is to experience and learn the coordination, organizational and communication aspects of the tournament more than the “judging” the skiers part.

[MattP]

I worked a record this summer and we had 47 skiers and it did not count for a friend of mine to get an upgrade. Getting 50 skiers in a record especially 3 event is crazy. I think that they need to re-evaluate that number.