EP62: Ski Talk with John Horton

[Horton]

 

https://link.chtbl.com/TWSP-EP62-BOS

 

 

[The_MS]

I think I have some paint drying that I need to watch

[Horton]

@The_MS didn't you retire to florida? what else could you possibly have to do?

[The_MS]

I still have a job

[Horton]

allegedly

[CollinSpradlin]

This is WAY over 10 min.

[thager]

Who is this Horton dude?

[Than_Bogan]

This would be better with more Elizabeth Montavon.

[Horton]

@Than_Bogan yes

[thager]

Maybe, but both put out the same amount of estrogen and one is already a mom!

[Horton]

Ok seriously if anyone has the time to listen I hope it is interesting.

[Broussard]

@Horton It was definitely an entertaining interview. Listened to it the other night while cooking dinner and eating. Lots of good info and I certainly agree with your point of surrounding yourself with skiers that are better than you.

[use2ski_Ok]

Hi Ballers. During the podcast, the subject of slalom tournament participation numbers vs social skiing was brought up & although @Horton managed to glide through it smoothly like a pass @ 0 off ;) I was curious to hear some baller’s views on this, possibly in a new thread, as there are so many variables as to why.

A couple of reasons come to mind for me..

a)Prize money vs cost of training/equipment/travel of competing

b)Exposure and appeal to the masses, be it younger thrill/ego seekers or armchair sportspersons being entertained in front of their TVs.

I follow & have sometimes competed in other sports, ie; motorsport & surfing, where others I know can’t relate to my ‘stoke’ because they’re either unable to participate at a higher level, or just don’t find it entertaining as a spectator.

Waterskiing can also just be just a fun weekend pastime/activity to those that don’t take it as seriously or “competitively” as others, a lot like surfing I guess.

Anyway, opinions anyone?

 

[KRoundy]

I thought that the point John made here was really good. If you can consistently run a couple of passes and then a couple of buoys at the next pass, you can competitively water ski. I had never thought of it that way. The idea of a competition is scary to me. I like to go and watch other good skiers, but I don't consider myself good enough to ski in competitions (I don't do anything close to shortline). Maybe I need to rethink that.

[Than_Bogan]

Yes. Rethink immediately.

[mfjaegersr]

Who? Mmmyeah...rather have my wisdom teeth put back in.

 

(Sorry, sort of? for taking it south just when the thread had turned serious/productive)

[motoskier]

I really enjoyed the interview, I thought our administrator did a great job, as far as I’m concerned without ball of spray, water skiing would be a lot less interesting for me. I got a great laugh out of the part when John said throw out anything I taught you in the 80s (that is so waterskiing)

[Rednucleus]

Rainy & windy this morning, so no ski but really enjoyed this interview while eating my breakfast of scrapple & eggs!

Re tournaments: My ski experience is limited to novice class INT League 25+ years ago. Great weekends with friends and competition was exciting. Fast forward today and love attending the Hilltop tournaments as a spectator. Lots of great people to visit with; the world class skiers are happy to visit with you and appreciative of our attendance - plus Gordon hosts a killer Mexican feast. Certainly not a boring experience for this old guy!

[loeweb]

@use2ski_Ok I think it is too big a jump for most to go from free skiing to skiing the course. For most free skiers, there isn't even a course on their "lake" making it extermely difficult to ski the course. Unless things like off course or Virtual Slalom Skiing take off, the chances of the Free skier crossing into the tournament scene are slim and none. I think these tools along with placing more courses in public waters are the only way right now that free skiers who have never been in the course can improve their timing, and realize how much angle and speed are needed to get to the next ball. Water skiing is missing that development level to get every day people excited about skiing. Much the same as youth sports are developing better athletes.

 

Imagine being in high school and trying out for the basketball team, but you show up to school the day before tryouts, never seeing a rim or a backboard. Your chances of making the team are about the same as a free skier making their first tournament pass having never skied the course.

[Horton]

@loeweb No one is suggesting that skiers who do not have access to a course should ski tournaments. I mean maybe to come see what it is all about but it would not be a lot of fun long term.

[loeweb]

@Horton I see, but the statement was brought up about participation numbers versus tournament skiing, and I see the fact that there aren't a lot of courses on public water (around here anyway) and the jump from just swerving a little to chasing buoys is too great for most free skiers to ever make. I wish there was a bigger push to utilize the virtual slalom skiing app, or the off course was more readily available because these two things are both designed with closing that gap in mind.

[Horton]

@loeweb you are addressing a real but different problem.

 

what I was talking about in the interview is that it's amazing how many people actually ski buoys and are not part of the larger competitive community.

 

As far as the need for slalom courses or virtual slalom courses nobody is going to argue that there is a shortage. if you read what I've written enough over the years or listen to what I've said I refer to that as lack of access. we have a substantial problem with access

[loeweb]

@horton sorry, I was trying to speculate on @use2ski_ok ‘s comment on participation numbers vs free skiers.

 

In my area, skiing is making a comeback as free skiers numbers seem to continue to increase. That being said, there are very few course skiers, and that number is not rising.

 

I agree that until there is more access, and even education available to those learning to ski, the trends will continue.

 

One of the lakes I frequent has a course, with no novice buoys. I know you can drive beside the boat guides and get close to a novice course, but with a true novice course as skills develop, skiers can maybe get a full buoy or two along with the novice. All other youth sports offer some sort of variation to encourage success (moving the pitchers mound in, lowering baskets, smaller/ lighter balls, smaller field) this needs to happen in skiing to appeal to more people, not just kids.

[Horton]

driving between the turn balls and the boat guides works great. I've taught a lot of people to ski and never spent much time using the official extra mini course movies.

[loeweb]

Is that a viable option in a tournament? I think the college tournaments have mini course options with regular course buoys counting differently?

 

[Horton]

@loeweb no driving between the guides and the turn balls is not an option in a tournament.

 

yes there are rules that allow the use of the green ball mini course in collegiate tournaments and class the events.

[Broussard]

@loeweb This is a great teaching tool but it is not an option in tournaments.

 

I would agree as would Horton I'm sure that the actual mini course is better for beginners. Unfortunately when this is not practical or available driving between the boat guides and turn buoys works really well.

[loeweb]

I still think it would be nice to see more actual mini courses in slalom courses. More buoys for people to ski for. The average Joe who just wants to screw around is so far away from skiing an actual course and the driver has no clue that the separate path can even be driven that skiers are turned away from buoy skiing before they give it a shot. Put a mini course within the normal course, and more people will give it a shot just because there’s more to ski for.

 

Of course it will be sea rays and bay liners on combos trying the course, but it will definitely help improve access!!

[jcamp]

@Horton, actually you can drive between guides and turn balls in Class F events. Look at page 23 of the 2020 Regional Guide.

[Rednucleus]

The mini course was great when I was not yet making full passes in the INT league. 1 point for big balls and gates, 1/2 point for mini balls. By the end of the season I did well enough in novice to win a nice shorty wet suit. Made for an exciting tournament season for a beginner.

[Broussard]

@loeweb I agree. Collegiate skiing (NCWSA) brought the mini course back to life in 2017 (I had never seen one used prior to that) and it is slowly starting to be adopted.

 

Obviously for sites where no one is using the mini course it involves an additional six buoys and if a lake has both a slalom course and jump course it gets a little hectic.

 

As far as people public lakes go, I believe the mini course buoys are actually helpful with floating courses as they help support the PVC arm that goes out to the turn buoy.

[loeweb]

@Broussard, I never thought about the extra buoys muddling up the jump course.

 

@Rednucleus that’s my thought, the ability to get a full pass in knowing that you can get 1/2 buoys along with a couple full buoys allows you to keep pushing where just having a regular course means your pass is over.

[RichardDoane]

@loeweb If new skiers are interested in course skiing, they need to look for GR events linked to a Class C tournament. That way they get a deal on the entry fee and a guaranteed number of passes. And once they get to know the gang, access becomes much better for continued practice and course use.

 

[loeweb]

@RichardDoane that’s assuming they’ve had course experience or access to a course. The grassroots effort I think is a great way to get course skiers to experience tournament skiing, but what is being done for free skiers with no access to a course, or no mini course to initiate improvement, to start swerving with intention?

[Bruce_Butterfield]

"it was 5 years in college, so it was kind of fuzzy......" I can't imagine why.....

[Horton]

@Bruce_Butterfield I skied a lot. :-)

[DaveD]

Is there something wrong with taking 5 years to get thru college?

[KRoundy]

I squeezed my 4 year degree into 6-1/2 years and three different colleges/universities. :)